I guess this is now over. My wife of 18 years is having an EA and PA and it looks as though I am being shut out. It started in December 2008 just shortly before her mother passed away from cancer. She was very, very close to her mother and the shock must have been enormous. We have had a seriously troubled marriage � I greatly suspect that my wife has narcissist tendencies and she has always been very domineering. I had problems with self esteem (probably due to my own father�s similar narcissist behaviour) and admired her outgoing manner but was covertly envious and resentful. This led to thousands of arguments, with me trying to resist her sarcastic and openly hostile behaviour. Out of despair, I resorted at times to a single slap or shove with my foot and twice I grabbed her by the throat to get her to be quiest. It was the only times I felt some relief from the incessant criticism, very loud and personal. In my shame, I admit that my children witnessed these fits of violence and it has left them with scars � my son is at present institutionalized showing difficult signs of psychosis. The tragic part is that most of the times I ended up physically hurting her, were when she was severely belittling him � I felt almost compelled to stop her from causing him discomfort. The end result is that it is probably due to him having witnessed me hurting his mother that he is so severely affected.
As if this wasn�t enough, I too had a number of one night stands (four times with one person) during the course of our marriage and did not reveal this to her.
On 8.2.2010 in the early hours of the morning I was made aware of her affair when I went to pick her up in town � she of course denied everything but I started to read her mobile telephone text messages in which she disclosed the details of her PA to her lover. I was devasted and realised how much she did in fact mean to me. The realisation that I had lost her was very devastating. At this point I did not know of MB, but after a few weeks I decided in a state of rebellion, to contact this lover by phone and explain to him how this affair will most likely end our marriage. He was perturbed by my call, and this resulted in them not being in contact for seven months. Unfortunately only a week after I called, my wife became suspicious and I admitted the call. On that same day, I had called some of her close friends, her sister and their joint employer and in effect exposed the affair (if I had read MB I would have done this with less display of emotion). During the last 6 months, I tried to plan A her as much as possible. We made good progress, but I knew that she constantly pined for his attention. Towards the end of this period I also started losing patience and in effect pushed her feelings back towards him. To make a long story short, on Saturday 10.10.10 (a special date for many), she met him by chance during a night out (mind you, she has gone out every weekend for the last two months, so it was inevitable that they would eventually meet). She spent the night with him. I instinctively knew it was happening and spent the entire night waiting outside her lovers apartment with the intention of surprising her when she came out, all the while sending text messages and trying to call her. She eventually asked me to come pick her up at another address which was close to where one of her female friends lived. For a while I was elated, thinking that I was wrong and gladly went. When she came to the car, she was distraught and I then knew that she had slept with someone. She admitted this and said it was with you know who. To be honest, I thought at first it was with someone else (another young man who was keen on her also). The realisation of the truth was even worse this time. I saw in her look that she had finally received the satisfying sexual experience from him that she had not received previously. My rage was overwhelming. I grabbed the cell phone I had given her for her 40th birthday four years ago because she was starting to text with it � it became a symbol of all the hurt I had been feeling. I smashed the phone on the pavement. My wife then became very frightened and walked away. I pleaded with her to let me take her home. She accepted. When we got home I drafted a divorce notice, signed it and asked her to do the same. She did and while doing so my son asked what it is and she told him. At this point I realised that what I am doing is irreplaceable and that maybe I was being too hasty. I then suggested we not do anything rash for a while. My son went beserk because he genuinely has come to believe that our divorce is the only thing that will stop us from continuously fighting. I am sorry to say, I also lost it completely and started crying like I�d never done before. Later that afternoon I confessed to wife of my own one night affairs. I did it in the realisation that our marriage is probably over and that I wanted to rid myself of the burden. During the last seven months, while pointing out to her why she should not be having an affair, I was constantly on the verge of telling her. If she did not have this renewed fling with her lover, I probably would not have admitted it. She must now be in a terrible state, after this fresh encounter with her lover (she is totally in love with a man 17 years her junior) she realised that she does not mean very much to him (at present anyway). My own confession has made her realise that the entire marriage has been a betrayal on my part. During our marriage, I have allowed her to dominate my feelings and I needed this gesture to somehow rise up out of her domination. I have all along realised that we are not compatible and always thought that one day it will end. That notion was a safety valve for me. Now that the valve has been opened, it seems that divorce is inevitable (not immediately � we have our son aged 16 and daughter of 13 and we have joint ownership of our house). We have agreed to wait until spring next year (four/five months from now). I have nobody else in my life and she has her love for this other person.
Up till this point, it seemed to me that in spite of all the animosity between us, that our marriage will continue forever, with no input from either of us, but it was her mother who kept telling her to let things be. As soon as she passed away, my wife was free to make her own decisions. Why then, if during all that time, my main objective was to be free of her, why is it now so painful? I am still not sure about her � she is abusive, critical, but she has high integrities � only now after 16 years of abrasive marriage, did she take this solution. She did not do this out of spite, she went about it as honestly as she could. If anybody is willing to comment on this, I would be so grateful. I don�t deserve any mercy � my adultery together with my displays of violence are issues I would not forgive myself easily for. Yet, in spite of all my shortcomings, inside I am decent, caring and I want to take responsibility. Why couldn�t I have grown up twenty years ago? I am turning 51 in a months time.
My letter probably sounds confused � a lot has happened and it�s difficult to condense facts and emotions to mere words on a screen. I am asking for help, not to win her back but to do what is right and decent, even it it means, as it apparently does, leaving. I will miss her a lot.

Schooner
Welcome to marriagebuilders. I am sorry to read the situation you are both in.

My wife also started an entangled affair when her mom had just been diagnosed with terminal cancer. I understand how that works.

While I am living proof that such affairs need not signal the end of a marriage I read profound trouble in your lives. Your post contains many excuses for your violence and adultery that are frankly feeble. Adultery and abuse are conscious decisions.

what is "right and decent" depends on your personal morality, Schooner. Do you have a faith ?

Immediately getting help for your abusive behaviour is required I would say.

Also read the articles on this site. Click here There are many tools that can be invoked in order to help end an affair and save a marriage.

Affairs so rarely end in a lasting happy relationship I can can assert that divorcing over this younger man is in no way the right thing to happen in your wife's life.

I would concentrate on removing the distractions from you rlives FIRST so that only then can you two have sane discussions about what is best for both of you.

That means exposing the affair, establishing "no contact" , your getting help for your violence and learning to discuss respectfully.

Only then can any sensible decision be made regarding what is "right and decent".

All blessings

Hi Schooner, sorry you're here. Maybe we can help, though.

This quote is troubling to me:


But, Schooner, marriages don't thrive when they aren't nurtured. You expected things to be fine with no effort on the part of either of you, and here you are.

I'm also troubled that you appear to be justifying and rationalizing your issues. It really doesn't matter who's got narcissistic tendencies, who's domineering, who's father was mean, etc. etc. You both have neglected your M, became resentful of each other, then went outside of your M to have your needs met.

Please start reading the articles on this site. You can rebuild your M, but you'll both need to work on this. Get started and you can bring your WH on board later. Do not tell her about this site for now. She's going to have to establish NC with her OM. Read about exposure and No Contact first.

Thanks for the quick feedback. You are right in that I need to learn to control my rage and that I am blaming my wife for my own lack of control. It's so easy to continue with the tit for tat blame cycle. None of it matters when the marriage is over. We have both agreed on some counseling next week Tuesday and I have promised to focus on managing my anger. At this point I cannot even begin to hope that it is not too late. Time will tell. All I want is to live decently. Adultery and acts of rage, especially when resulting in violence, are deliberate and are intended to end the relationship. I am aware of this and in hindsight regret the decision. If only that same reasoning was available during the moment, then it seemed as if it was an inevitable conclusion, yet I do remember making that clear decision, knowing full well the implications and feeling the immediate regret, but still resolved to see it through. If only I could persevere with honest activities with the same tenacity. I have a lot to sort out with my wife and at best can hope that we can accept each other for what we are. Thanks for the words of support.

No, sir. at BEST, using marriagebuilders you can become FANTASTIC spouses to each other and good, good people. You are not condemned to be chained to your past. That's another choice you can make or unmake.

Trust me on this. As Frankie once said said " choose life"

be blessed

I sure hope not. Accepting you as you are will be a disaster. You should not be accepted as a wife beater and an adulterer, Sir. She should not be accepted as an adulterer and a bully. Those are behaviors to be changed, not accepted. You and your wife have made your marriage extremely incompatible by your OWN HAND. You have done this to your marriage by accepting each other how you are.

The solution is to CHANGE, not accept, if you want to save your marriage. It is rare to see a couple who is so immature and self destructive, but I suppose anyone can change if they try.

I would start first by stopping blaming your wife for your bad behavior. Nothing will change until you man up and take accountability for your own behavior. Please look into anger management classes.

Thank you for your encouragement. In the beginning everything is so pure, then we start to test our boundaries, before you know it it becomes a habit. At present, two other families in our close circle of friends, are in a similar situation. Adultery does breed, it's so much easier to accept it of yourself if "everyone else is doing it". So many people are divorced/divorcing around us and many have regrets. I so wish that we are not reduced to the same. Last week I was able to communicate with my wife, openly and somewhat honestly (notwithstanding my holding out on my own PA's). That was the whole issue - it really is impossible to live as a liar. Now that I have disclosed, I feel freed, and incredibly sad for having caused her so much hurt. This week our communication is different - she felt that she was the only guilty one and now she is also the victim - we both are. There is so much pain in it all - two people who promised to grow old together are now reduced to this - I, for one, am ashamed. I have read Doctor Harley's texts many times and have implemented them as best as possible. Living in a non-english country, my wife has not had the opportunity to delevop her english to a high standard and I am considering translating some of the text. Are there by any chance any foreign translations existing (scandinavian)? I am sorry to see the number of people in this discussion group is rather high - I trust that a large number have made it through - I'll do my best to be among them, together with my wife.

Yes, I do agree with you, infidelity is rampant. Repeantant people are rare, but on the board we do have quite a few who survived the A and have great marriages so it is possible but still not very common.
I know for a fact that in scandinavian countries indidelity is almost accepted, but maybe I am wrong. I just know that in Sweden, for example, many people do not even marry and they simply live together and the goverment recognizes the legality of these unions (called sambo)
It takes a lot of work to R from infidelities from both sides but you can do it if you want to and if your W is also on board.
blessing

You are right. I had been running away for so long. I have been standing upright since my wife's D-day. It is almost two years since I last laid a hand on her (is that all!) - what a coward I have been. I apologise to all readers that you need to witness this - I have been despicable. I have destroyed so much, all I can do is to try and make up for some of it.

My wife was in almost NC for about 7 months. By this I mean that she was sending countless text messages and FB mails but that the OM did not respond (I learned that this was directly because of my call to him). During this time I was in plan A full time - we actually became good friends and spent a lot of time together. Now that she broke NC 3 days ago and had sex with the OM, it's back to square one. The same foggy responses, the same accusations and excuses. I cannot really go into plan B because we don't have seperate places to stay. All I can think of doing is continuing plan A but at the same time feel that something else is needed. Would a 180 degrees be more appropiate - I really want to take the focus off her and just spend time and effort on myself. At present she wants to continue the marriage but also wants to meet her OM at her own leisure with no interference from my side. There is no way I can persuade her not to be in contact with the OM. It's because of this that I feel I need to back off completely. Am I on the right track?

I think you are heading towards the inevitable divorce if you "back off" and allow to continue such disrespect.

Use real plan A (and plan B probably then) instead.

Read here.

How I helped support NC:
1) Exposed to all
2) Got OMs girlfriend as my ally in snooping NC
3) I gathered lots of incriminating information about OM's illegal activities that I threatened to publish the SECOND I heard about any contact violations again
4) Very credibly physically threatened OM.
5) Plan A'ed and explained firmly to Squid that I could not tolerate NC for long before I would have to divorce for my own dignity.

Together those things supported NC which has now held for six years.

Thanks for the advice! Just to recap on your points:
1) After the original D-day in February I exposed to all and contacted the OM, all of which helped NC for seven months. Now with this new contact, should I expose again? Apparently my previous call to the OM did have the desired effect - now my wife is insisting that I do not contact - you are right, I should really threaten this time, the guy is a leach, he has casual sex with young women and still my wife will knowingly settle for his occasional favours. The trouble with this threatening thing is that my temper has gotten the better of me in the past - I do not want to be in an inflamed situation, if things get out of hand.
4) Right now I have been LB'ed to a state of numbness. I cannot even bear the thought of touching her, let alone caressing her in bed like I've been doing for the last six months. I can play it cool, trying not to cause LB's but cannot meet any other EN apart from conversation. To top it off, they had unsafe sex, and it is now a major turnoff for me.

Yes, you should expose again. But since you know MB now, you can do it in more organized and less emotional way.

At first, do NOT reveal your plans to WW or OM. Gather your intel and expose to all who have influence over your WW. Regarding OM - expose to OMW (!very important), his parents, relatives, friends first, THEN contact (call if you are aftraid of your temper) OM and say that you will fight your family and hell is coming with you if he still tries to contact your wife.

Do not give them empty threats. The key is in planning.

I guess you already know that your wife will be furious. But dont worry, she will be not furious because you ruined recovery but because you are ruining her affair!

About this



Could you describe the "pining" in more detailed way? I think she had some form of contact with him during all these months which means there was no real NC and affair never ended.

And get yourself STD tested, affairs and unsafe sex are almost synonyms (as you know already).

Schooner, your WW has learned that there are no consequences for her actions.

How long have you been in Plan A? I would say to expose again, keep your snooping tools in place, and prepare to go to Plan B. Because unless your WW learns that you will not tolerate her having relations with another man, she will play you and you will not recover.

No one keeps an extra apartment for when their marriage fails. It's never convenient when a spouse has to find another place to live. I never had to go to Plan B, but I can't imagine that being successful when both spouses are interacting under one roof. Hopefully someone else can advise you on that.

Schooner, 180 is NOT MB. And the program that has the 180 in it, doesn't have a real recovery program for after the affair is over. That is what makes MB so much better than all of the other programs out there. Not only do you learn the most effective steps to killing the affair, you also learn what to do to recover your marriage after the affair is dead.

The affair never ended. Your WW kept "pining" for OM and she continued to try to contact him until he broke down and then "oops" they "fell" into bed together.

As everyone has already suggested to you, you need to expose this affair to both sides of this equation. You need to do a solid Plan A and then move into Plan B. No one said this was going to be easy. You will need to learn and create plans and then execute them. BTW, what do you think your WW's top 5 ENs are?

Schooner my approach is not at all what Dr Harley would advise. Certainly no intimidation from that good gentlemen. I was only writing what i did as a frail human being.

You do seem to have anger / restraint issues which makes emulating my approach even less well advised as usual. I am a very calm man yet some time after d-day when NC was in place for several months I sought out OM, ambushed him and beat the gravy out of him with a cable hose.

You know what ? He was took his licks, was decent and gave me a reason to respect him....which I find a sore consequence.

BTW you should take steps to protect your finances and your homeright now. Don't want OM spending any of it via your WW in case the A doesn't stop immediately.

Thank you all for your help. I was on the verge of giving up and now you have given me something to work on. I am actually chuckling with the anticipation of how many I can expose to - both the WW and OM are active on Facebook - in fact this is where the EA developed. I intend to post to as many of their FB "friends" as I can get to. Is it wise to include in the exposure letter specific details of how the affair took off - WW's mother was terminally ill at the onset of the EA and that must have been a primary motive, needing an outlet - the point I would like to bring across is what type of low-life will take advantage of a person in mourning? Perhaps not a good idea, but that was the major reason why it started, he hit on her during an office christmas party just two weeks before her mother passed away (having been terminally ill for 6 months, bedridden for the final month). Now I understand why she would not let me hug her on that final day - this she admitted to me. Should I expose as soon as possible - this weekend? It will not give me much of chance to begin plan A again and it may be that I will need to go into plan B very soon thereafter (ie me moving out into a rented apartment). What a mess, I tried during the last 6-7 months to enforce NC but what can you do? She is a grown woman who likes to go out with her friends. That has to stop of course. I appreciate all the effort you people put into this - it really makes a difference knowing that there are people out there who really care. Good wishes to all.

This is a sample letter that MelodyLane suggested.

You would modify it to fit your sitch but I would NOT include why YOU think the affair started, etc. It really doesn't matter. All you need to get across is that your wife is having an affair and that you would like their help in ending it.

You need to expose to everyone in the same day. You need to do this far and wide. You need to do this the right way. Some people may tell you that you should keep it secret, you tell them that affairs thrive in secrecy.

Don't get too wordy. You just need to expose the fact that the two of them are having an affair. There is an exposure letter for FB - I'll see if I can find it, or maybe someone else can get it for you.

Your mil's illness is NOT the primary motive for having an affair. Lots of people have to deal with a relative's illness and they don't have affairs. That is NOT a normal reaction to an illness. Get that out of your head, because you are giving your WW an 'out.' She and OM are having an A because they have no boundaries and no sense of respect - for themselves or anyone else.

Expose today if you can. Copy all of their FB friends before you get started. When you start exposing they may block you, so you need that info in a safe place before you begin exposing.

May I ask why YOU are moving out? Do you not own your house? Are both of you on the lease, or just her? Why are YOU moving out of your home and inconveniencing yourself when your WW is the perpetrator?

Okay, hang on. I'll see if I can find that FB exposure letter...