HI all,

Ok, so, it has been 3 years since I have found out about my husband's 3 infidelities, affairs, call it what you will. 3 different women. Lies, weird goings on, confronting him with one of the women at a bar, yada, yada, yada.

I just have something to say, take it or leave it, I suppose. But, my view and feelings, I guess.

I have no idea how you, Dr. Harley, etc. can say this can be overcome.

As I sit here tonight, alone again, with him on a little 4 day vacation with his boss, who is male, but has nothing to with any of this, and after a 6 day vacation last week, because, this is time of year he can get off because of his type of work, and I can't get off, but, we are going away at end of month for a week TOGETHER for our 30th wedding anniversary - just had to add this all - I have finally come to the conclusion that this type of thing just kills it all - the affairs/infidelities/lies etc I mean. It is never the same. The relationship. One will never, ever trust this person again, nor never feel the same about them again, or rather, in fact, not feel anything for this person ever again. Very strange. Just nothing. He is just there. We are just here. Basically, I feel, for standard of living. I have given this tons of thought. And tons of tears.

It comes down to either: divorce the B, or, be a liar and coniver like them, and have a fun, exciting fantastic time too yourself, like they did, behind your back and making believe everything is hunky-dory, and keep one's standard of living, and get your own boyfriends on the side. I've opted for this version.

Ugh, you know, enough is enough of feeling like crap!!!

Amen.

Gineva, what program have you used to recover and repair your marriage? Can you tell me specifically what you have done to recover the love in your marriage?

So you are now an adulterer too? How in the world could adultery be the solution to a bad marriage?

No program, except listening to some Dr. Harley cds' of his radio program that I downloaded and burned disks and gave to him to listen to in his car and when we are together in the car, 3 years ago. He did concur with the being "in the fog" part - 3 times. Yeah. I may not respond for a few mins, as he had texted me 3 times and called 2x, within the last hour, and haven't heard from him til now since 7:00am today. Thanks.

In other words you did nothing. You are getting out of the marriage exactly what you put into it: NOTHING. This is what you get when you do nothing. NOTHING.

See, Marriage Builders is a little like the Atkins Diet, you have to actually DO THE DIET in order for it for work. I do not know of any marriage programs - or diets - that work when you AREN'T on them. No such thing as a osmosis program.

But take those of us who actually worked the program. We have great marriages! There might a clue in all that....

Have you and your H done anything to repair the damage of the affairs? You sound...exhausted by the adulteries. As you should - it's a form of abuse that you shouldn't have to endure. This infidelity can be overcome, but both of you have to want that.

Tell us more, so we can help you - who is the current OW? Does she work with your H? Is she married?

Your H has learned that he can conduct extramarital affairs and get away with it. That needs to stop, now.

Have you taken an affair partner?

Would it be accurate to say that you both have your own separate lives, apart from the marriage?

My thoughts are because I may find someone else that I will "feel it" for again, might, hopefully, be a much better person that him...and that may not be such a B as him. Plus, it makes one feel MUCH better that other men are interested in you, that you are not the failure that he makes you feel, and treat you so much better.

Gineva, we need some info: how old are you? How long married? Kids?

Right now you sound like you are ready to cut and run from your M. I suspect that isn't the case or, or you would have done so already.

Will you let us help you?

Any man who would fool around with a married woman is a scumbag who has no respect for women. If they will go out with you, that is a sign they have no respect for you. You won't "feel good" for long when he dumps you. You won't get a man that way, and you will end up feeling degraded for committing adultery.

I am glad to hear that you have great marriages now. It does seems strange to me though at this point. How can you not look at that person and think "how dare he do that to me? I had no idea. I feel like an idiot. I was doing, helping, etc whatever for him like i've done all my life and behind my back he stabs it. You know, if I had a friend or a sister or a brother that did that to me, I would never, ever speak to them again. So, why? Why do we stay with these abusive - and that is what they are - men? Some of us for 1x, 2x, 3x?

Re the nothing. Well, yes I guess. But, he didn't want to do anything else about it. No counseling, no more bringing it up, nothing. Nothing. He said we can fix this marriage ourselves. If you bring anyone else into it turns into a bigger mess. So, that is how it went. Just listening to some downloads of the Harleys radio programs, and that was it. He does not want to listen to them anymore, thinks he knows it all as usual, and that everything is fine now (so he thinks). "We're good now" he told me pretty recently. And "that won't happen ever again, as long as the marriage stays "good". (? is what I say). And that was the end of that.

Well, thats my point. That is why your marriage did not recover. It is not because a marriage CAN'T be recovered, but that it can't be recovered if you do nothing to recover it.

G,

His idea is that things are good because he said that they are


and you have returned to a quiet neutral corner.


The condition of the marriage is that there is nothing there - you give nothing, he gives nothing

so there is nothing.


What you desire could be there - if one of you chose to put something out there for the other to grasp onto.

You do not trust him, and the truth is that in any relationship blind trust should not exist. It can't. We are all wired for failure, really, and we do need boundaries in order to help us maintain ourselves. Boundaries are self-imposed, but they are also imposed by others. In a marriage, they are mutually agreed upon - we set them, and we help each other stay in them by a process of accountability and honesty and openness to each other.

Your husband broke this trust, broke accountability, broke honesty and openness, and he crossed boundaries (to say the least). After the affair, the whole mess was not recovered well. There were no procedures to protect those boundaries, to establish what might make you feel safe (called "extraordinary precautions" around here) in the marriage, and to set about a course of doing things with one another to regain the trust and love that the two of you once had.


As a result, your marriage is floundering.


You are not having your emotional needs filled by your husband. You feel resentment, and so you do not meet his. You feel justified in calling him names, and you are telling yourself that because he did something terrible it justifies your doing the very same thing.


That't like saying your husband stabbed you three years ago, and you agreed to work things out.....

Then three years later you think is it okay to stab him because you just now feel like you have worked up enough resentment for it?


Revenge affairs are not okay. Doesn't matter when, doesn't matter what you think the justification is. If you want out of the marriage, GET OUT. Do not use an excuse that you will suffer financially so it is okay to cheat. You are wrong. You have the legal right to divorce. You do not have the moral right to cheat. That betrayal is self-serving, just in order to keep money...and your own life style...and to gain revenge. How does this sound reflected back? Not good, I'm sure.


Read the MB principles on this website. You are in the resentment phase, and this is eating away at your recovery chances. The problem in your marriage RIGHT NOW??????


Is YOU.


Ouch.


sorry to have to tell you this


But you do need to take a very hard look at what you might be thinking and doing that contributes to the state of your marriage.

And take a look at what you are GIVING toward your husband's emotional needs.

without blaming HIM:

What are YOU doing to meet his needs?


Read the Emotional Needs information here.
Answer this
Do some work meeting his needs


And - order "Surviving an Affair".


And make plans to bring up the subject of the affair with your husband again. Only AFTER you have done some learning, and after you are out of this fog.

Schoolbus

Makes sense, yes, can't be recovered because we did nothing to recover it.

The only thing he wanted to do each time, besides listening to the cds after one of the affairs, was to go away for long weekend or a weeks vacation almost immediately after each of the affairs. Then I he thought it was "fixed" each time (although I knew it was not).

Even now, he is away on a vacation for a few days with his boss, and last week he was away by himself for a week, - he spoke with me many more times during the day last week then this one. See? Because he is too busy now he is with the boss at a boat show, and also, interestingly enough, I just found out this am that one of the daughters of the boss, whom I know and is married, has met up with them and is staying at the same hotel as them, with one of her female friends that is a lesbian, so they say, and Iv'e heard about her too, and she owns a boat with her lesbian whatever, and the bosses daughter owns a boat with her husband. These 2 women live in FLA. So, I asked him this am, oh! you never said they were going too!! And his response was - and quite the nervous backpaddling strange voice, said "oh! it was an on again off again thing on the way here". Hmmm...really? While I am at home, 2nd time in 2 weeks now, working my rear end off at work 9 hours a day. Then, he called a little while ago, and I asked him again, as his story always changes, I've learned that the hard way now - when did he know about this? Then he tells me "oh, it has been being discussed on and off now for a few weeks!! WTF!! A few weeks!! this brings back HORRIBLE memories now tonight...now here I go... I am going out tomorrow night to see one of my friend's bands at a bar...and whatever happens..maybe I 'll meet someone!!!

I am 52, he just turned 53 last week.

We have 2 daughters, 21 and 23.

We will be married 30 years in a couple of weeks. And dated 5 years before that.

Cut and run? I really do feel like that..ALOT. I just can't believe this person anymore, he is not who I thought he was. All I think about when I look at him are those 3 women, and all the emails and letters they wrote back and forth to each other. Disgusting. Disgusted with him - I think that is a good terminolgy. I make believe everything is alright, but I know it is now, for me anyway. I think why I am still here is because I am afraid, financially mostly, not loneliness, I am pretty much a loner anyway, but am very happy and good at meeting people and am good at striking up conversations with strangers. I am in sales too, probably why I am able to do that.

Maybe you are right with that. And my own husband is one too, although, the 3 women he had affairs with weren't married - one divorced 2x with a steady boyfriend, the other in the middle of 1st divorce, and the 3rd, never married but had a steady boyfriend for a few years.

These women aren't too good either, obviously, dating a married man...one of them even had him over her parents house a few times for dinner and such! And, he even knew the parents for some years as they were, not anymore! Customers of his! And her too! One of the other ones, he went to her daughters houses a few times and even babysat her grandchildren with her! And the other one, we both knew...from an association that our children belonged to!

So, I don't know. Like you said, if I do find someone, what does he think of me being married...some don't care I know, and some of them are married too. I've heard of this working out sometimes, they end up getting married etc., I've seen it in both of our extended families, aunts and uncles.

No, not separate lives. For awhile there maybe, and maybe that is why the affairs started, wish I'd known! Would have had my own at the same time! I was just very busy with the children, house and working. He thought I didn't want him anymore, which is weird, as we were having relations, went on vacations, out to dinner, movies and the like...I had no clue.

He doesn't have any one now, not for 3 years, he had two in one year, and another one 3 years prior to them.

One was divorced 2x with a steady boyfriend and she was 4 years older than him. He met her at a motorcycle club. The other other was never married, but had a steady boyfriend. She was a customer of his, as was her parents. She was 4 years younger than him. And the other one was in the middle of a 1st divorce. I knew this one. She worked at a place that we brought our children to for lessons. She was 6 years older than him. I have found out since with this one that she has done this with other women's husbands from the school, and one of the women divorced her husband because of what she found out about her husband and this other woman.

Interesting synopsis.

True, we are now both in our safe corners. Just going about our days.

Yes, I am resentful, very very angry...thinking I wish I knew at the time, I would have been having my own fun going out with different men, instead of cleaning, ironing, shopping, etc while he was sleeping with the skanks. Angry at myself.

Blind trust, was what I did. I am angry about that too. I am also angry that people can't do that.

To be truthful, I don't care about his needs. I feel it is too late for that. This whole mess is his fault. He did really screw me.

I have the problem now? Yes, that is true, but it was caused by him, and I am extremely angry at him for that.

I may talk to him again about the affairs. But, when I have, the stories change, change to worse things that happened. I don't think I can take hearing anything even worse anymore.

I don't know what I am going to do. I wish he would just drop dead actually! LOL! And that would be the end of that. Done. Nothing to do about it then, act of God and whatever. Sounds so much easier!!

As far as the standard of living...it really is why I am here now, I know it. I care about it though a little less lately, since the summer. Interesting on my part.

Maybe I will just up and leave one day. Kind of had enough. Wondering what that would be like.

Thanks for listening and your feedback.