Harmony, I don't weigh in often but I gotta say, you are better than the OM deserves. He's a POS. And in your heart, you know it. Even if your H never comes to his senses and your M doesn't recover, you do not need OM or anyone like him! Don't go down that road! I know you are hurting and lonely, but you know that OM is not capable of truly fulfilling your needs. He will not respect your boundaries at all. You know this. Be strong - you can get through this!

Hi Seeking

Thanks for the article it was an interesting read. There were quite a few parts that hit home, mainly 2 sections:

Reason #6: How Could He Be So Different From You?

AND

Reason #7: He Lies

they hit home quite a bit. It's weird I find it really difficult to accept that my H is abusive and I am sure other people would be surprised, but I find it difficult to tell people, not because I am embarrassed but think they won't believe me or I am just being bitter!

Yes got myself together re OM. Antena put it well I don't need anymore complications in my life right now.
I have been thinking what I would do if H did come back into my life and I really don't know what I would do, I don't think I could go back there ever again. In fact I know I couldn't. As more time passes he looks even more unappealing choice.

Right now I need some alone time, to not have to need anyone. I am too vulnerable at the moment.

I feel some kind of inner peace and smile at today. I think I may get through this just fine.

Oh and this one!


Reason #5: You Love the Lovable In Him

Worried that I will never be able to pick a good man!

I have a question about OM & OW in general.

If I made a terrible mistake, is he not capable either?

I just need to understand this once and for all.

My OM seemed like a good person, one of things that attracted me to him pre A was the way he was with other people, he always seemed to protect others, didn't like back stabbing, stuck up for those who were having some difficulty, what you saw was what you got, he looked after his sick father, supported his sister financially, was indepandant and took responsibility and was not concerned with image or materialism. He agreed with me that he had done a terrible thing and felt very guilty about it but wanted to spend his life with me.

I am not saying that I want to be with him or will contact him, but I am still
confused about his values as a person.

The reason I raise this is until I understand this is so I can put this to bed.

Thank you

Harmony

I don't have an answer to your question but I sort of have the same one.

Most (although not all) of the FWW and FWH on here were OW and OM...so, if they can be redeemed couldn't your OM or mine or anyone elses?

Not saying I care to find out, I just have a hard time vilifying anyone who did what I did when I know I am making positive changes.

In my case the OM was not married. I am not defending him but I feel what I did was much worse as I had a husband and family to protect.

Harmony,

Stop trying to find the good in OM. If you obsess about this it will cause you to make bad decisions and erase much of the good work you have been doing on you.

Besides, didn't you say he was using drugs as well? I'm pretty confident you said something about that on your thread unless I am confused with somebody else.

So, he is a drug user and he sleeps with married women? Sounds like a real winner to me!

How well do you really know OM? You think you know him but do you really? All of those other things could have been a facade created by OM to reel you in. Maybe none of it is even true?!?

In the end, it doesn't matter. There are so many truly good men out there. Trust your boundary work and that you have a much improved 'picker' now. You need a fresh start with a new healthy person.

Ok, I think you are making him into a fantasy and that is the problem with A. They are all a fantasy. Have you lived to a single day of reality with this man. I mean did you have to deal with everyday life with him (bills, housekeeping, etc..)
I can tell you that he does back stabbing...to your own H. He sleept with his wife. Nice! Really nice.
Sure, he had no problem shagging you and listening to your marital problems when you needed him to. Sleazy is the word that comes to mind.
What you saw is what you wanted to project into him. Somebody who mirrored your needs and made you feel good...for the time being.

That's what you saw in the brief amount of time you were with him,,,or maybe he told you so and you never really witnessed it yourself. They like to be knights in shining armor.

Drama queen, all right.
Sleeping and wanting to be with someone else's H or W means you are messed up in some way or the other.
It is condemned by most cultures and religions in the world. It shows poor boundaries and little self respect and very very low self esteem
blessing

Thanks sunNydaze

I just need to really understand this, it is important for me as I go forward. I suppose it helps my use of boundaries.

Yes guys thanks your right, I think I have still some form of addiction to him, because I believed what he created for me to see.

I am glad I posted this as I really need to put this behind me.

He is not right for me, I want him to be also as I am scared I will pick the wrong man and I am scared I won't pick anyone of value and concerned how long that will be ???!!!! Ahhh.

I�m glad you brought up OM. You are fighting a war on several fronts, and NC is still one of them. Don�t neglect the importance of defending that boundary.

Why don�t you turn that list of qualities that you admired in OM, whether he had them or not, and expand it into a list of qualities you would like to see in your mate?

I don�t know if you had a list of qualities you wanted in a mate before you got married. I sure didn�t. I made one recently though and it has been invaluable in validation of my H, communicating in positive terms, and identifying where I need to set my boundaries. Just watching a TV show together can provide me an opportunity to point out traits I admire (hint, hint H) and make positive comparisons between my H and the character (he�s so funny, just like you).

I�m going to weigh in on the changing the locks issue. In general, if your name is on the deed, you have as much right to change the locks as you do to paint the living room ceiling purple. The legal issue would arise when you refuse access to the home as he has a legal right to access. But you haven�t done that. If you change the locks and he wants access he�s going to have to ask through your IM, and that person can arrange for access without you present.

I don�t like you being there alone with him free to come and go. He drives drunk, which is a big deal here, but I know it is a MUCH bigger deal there and a telling fact on his poor judgement. I�m afraid he�s going to get drunk one night and decide to pay you a visit. There is no good outcome to such a meeting and lots of really bad ones.

I also like that you are in possession. There is at this point nothing stopping him from moving right back in while you are at work as he still has an equal right to access, and then you have to either get him out or get out. Possession is, in fact, 9/10ths of the law.


This is almost always the case. It�s part of the dynamic. I�ve done some work with victims of domestic violence. One woman whose husband beat her refused to believe he was abusive because �I know he doesn�t like his pickle cut up that way but I did it anyway.� That is a true story. I still shake my head.

Hi Seeking

I am going to see my solicitor tomorrow, so hopefully I can get her advice about changing the locks. I spoke to her over the phone but can explain the situation better face to face.

Anyway. I have been out at my interior design course tonight, and he has been back to pick up his mail. He knows I go every Thursday so did it knowing I would be out.

I feel a bit in catch 22, because if I don't change the locks he could have a few drinks one night and come back (fairly unlikely but possible) and get angry,

or

I could change the locks and he could pop back to pick up his mail, and not be able to get in and get very angry, then maybe get revengeful and make a point of moving back in ect...and I will have to move out.

Sorry I am making a big deal out of this, but my overall aim is to get him out of the house, and me be able to stay in the house without any upheaval. I don't bloody know. It is not because I want him back it is to get out of this marriage and smoothly as possible.

Anyway, qualities that I would like in a man (this is easy to do):

Responsible
Caring
Considerate
Independant
Mature
Respectful
Fun
Outgoing
Adventurous
Zest for life

Ahhh...Is that a good list? I have not done it in a priority or anything. Seeking - share with me yours???

Harmony

PS> I still cant get my head round filing for D although I know I should go straight ahead and do it, and the no contact with H is not an issue as I have no desire to contact him at all!!

In reference to my list above, most men are going to come across like that in the beginning, to use Constants words, how do you sort the wheat through the chaff?

I am not looking for a man right now ofcourse I am not going to do this until I have filed, but just questions thats all.

Thanks guys I am very appreciative of everything you are doing here to help me.

Did you notice that you didn't include "faithful" on your list? I'm just saying.

Anyways, I am coming to the OM/OW discussion a little late. It is the right thing to NOT think about OM. You will fantasize about him and remember all of the "good" things about him. Completely normal, but something you must change in yourself.

I will touch on this in a general sort of way. OM/OW have very weak boundaries. They do not have a good moral code as they slept with a married person. They either were married themselves and broke their own vows, or they had complete disregard for the vows taken by their AP that they chose to act selfishly to get what THEY wanted. They don't give a darn about the other person. They care about no one but themselves. Most of the time, the WS in an active affair, isn't concerned about their own children. It is all about ME ME ME.

There may be some decent qualities in an OM/OW but the qualities brought out by the affair trumps them.

I have often said that the best relationship is one where the two parties bring out the BEST in each other. In an affair, the AP's bring out the worst. A relationship built on that foundation is DOOMED.

How do you separate the wheat from the chaff?

Time, patience, honesty.

Despite your painful situation, Harmony, you have gained tons of insight and a toolbox of knowledge on how a relationship SHOULD be. How a good relationship can be created and maintained - you now know that storybook fantasy love isn't real, and doesn't last forever. You know what it means to "work at it every day."

OK H, add faithful on there (oversight? assumption? willing to settle for less than because you feel less than?).

Now, make two more lists. One of the most Undesirable Traits, and one for Deal Killers.

I am actually going somewhere with this exercise.....

We KNOW why your scared. We are trying to show you how to live outside of that fear, not find a way to appease it with another idiot.

What you imagined in OW was what he played on towards you. They all put forward their best appearance. What scotty said rings true. His willingness to sleaze his way in on a marrige in trouble and sleep with a married woman trumps any and all good crap he was selling you. That is not an action of a man who cares about a woman. "Wow , gee, if i sleep with you it will help your marriage and future relationships" What a hero, what a friend.

What do you think?, that other men don't have women in trouble who show they are attracted to them? How do other men act? Do they take atvantage of a female friend or do they empathsize and point to counsel? This guy was a weakling and not interested in helping you, he dragged you down to the scum he is. What a wimp.

All of what he said and even if he did portray some good guy his actions reveal the truth, he thinks with the wrong head and sex is his priority. He thinks it more important than love and that is what love is. I don't care how much you through yourself at him and you want to believe he couldn't help himself, he could if he had any nuts.

I can say I have know many men including myself that could justify an A but wouldn't even when an opportunity presented itself beacuse they knew it was bullchit. Two wrongs don't make a right and he did not care about you more than what he could use you for. As far as his efforts to apoligize and still wants a relationship with you... double Of course! hes pathetic, he knows you will take all kinds of crap from your current H so he looks good right now in comparison. In the end he would be jealous if you didn't take as much crap from him. Your an easy mark for his con. Don't try to be so understanding and accept this tripe, you are and will be better than that and it will take some time till you see it. First get yourself together and practice some patience.


Get yourself together Harmony and stop letting your emotions run you like this, both your H and this OM are losers and have done nothing to prove differently. You don't need to have a guy to make you valuable. You have got to work on that OK?

Harmony,

You are turning to the "image/fantasy" of OM out of fear. You don't want to be alone, that is my guess. You fear the future, when in fact you just starting to have a future.

We talked about boundaries...alot right? The reason wasn't just to protect you from your H or even your OM, it was to allow you to stand on your own. You should not be afraid of that.

I have always had the theory that people need to be alone before they can be good company. If you are alone you will have time to think, time to examine, and time to find out what is really important in your life. As you do this, you ability to pick a good man will mature and grow. You were seeking support and a light to fend off the darkness with these men, and thus you could not see what you needed to see.

When YOU become the light in your life, you will see people more clearly you will seek a man that makes a good companion as much or more than you will see a man for support (by support I mean emotional not just financial).

Harmony it is my opinion that to share a life with someone you must first be independent. It gives you the strength to "become one" with another and be able to add to the union. You don't want to marry your father, nor do you want to marry a little boy. One treats you as a child and the other expects you to mother them.

Some of the traits of the OM you mentioned seem fine, but they come encased in a man that had no problem dating a married woman. Has he changed. At the risk of sounding political, I live in CA and we have the Mayor of SF running for Lt. Gov. I will NEVER vote for this man. He had an affair with his best friends W. A man like that should NEVER be entrusted with any power/influence/other peoples money. I am sure his current W loves him, he is a tall handsome guy, but he is flawed.

Some of the traits of your H are fine, but they seem and I seem to be encapsulated in a man that has serious character flaws. If you had boundaries in place his flaws would have clashed with them, and you would have known to move on.

Your potential is clear Harmony, what remains to be seen is if you will allow it to become not a potential but a part of who you are. If you do, you will have a good life. Men will be attracted to you and you will then be able to chose a man that suites you and you him.

Just thoughts, I hope they help.

God Bless,

JL

Harmony,



Do you know what no contact is? It is not just a physical IRL or virtual no contact over Internet. It is also NOT THINKING about him and NOT DWELLING on his qualities.

Why is no contact necessary?

Dr Harley has said:


Please, please read Mark's thread about how to deal with your memories and start practising, as Scotland said you need to change that in you.

I bumped it up for you in Recovery section, too. This is what helped me right after my own affair.

I understand your wish to understand this OM stuff, but it won't help you one bit, because every time you think about him, you are breaking no contact. You did what you did because you had no boundaries and you didn't care. He did what he did because exactly the same thing. Now, you have an excellent opportunity to learn about boundaries and MB concepts and move on, OM is not yours to save.

Analysing OMs good qualities as of what qualities a man should have and putting him in the centre of your list and expanding it - this exercise puzzles me, really. Why do you need to do it?

Thanks Niitse

I will have a read of the link, How do you stop thinking about someone?? I did ask SH about this and he said to treat it like a hot potato! Everytime it comes into your head, you go oh no, and ouch!!

I am in an excellent position at the moment, and since I had that serious 2x4 from JL, I am feeling good. I need to be able to self soothe myself though and prevent from going down that track.

I guess the next challenge will be when my H trys to have contact with me, although I have not heard anything which is good.

I am sure he is fine.

Ok, and Steve also told you not to change the locks so there you have it.
Your H is fine, the way these people are...nothing effects them that much. They need drama in their life so whatever provides it...circumstances change but the drama is the same/
Hoping for him to suffer whatever consequences is a game that might take a long long time.
Take care of yourself
blessing