{{{{Opt}}}}

I'm not surprised by you STBWXW actions. Unfortunately, her history is her future. I don't think she much likes herself, but instead of looking for QUALITY changes, she keeps doing the same thing as before. Definition of insanity. And I'm not sure if her hitting rock bottom will help. It never did for my mom, though I can always hope and pray for her.....

Remember when I told you to read Pep's thread on "Typical Wayward Wives"? And I pointed out that your wife seemed to fit the Non-typical variety? I still stand by that assessment today. Though, I don't think she's got the full fledge entitlement down, because you would have come out far worse in the settlement, none-the-less, she is very non-typical. I ALMOST feel sorry for her.

Now, for YOU, I am glad. I think you will do well in the end, IF you keep on the path you are going. I am proud of your growth through this and if you keep these lessons near and dear to your heart, ONE DAY, you will find a woman who will love and cherish you for your hard work......

{{{{{Opt}}}}}}}

Not

Oh, I thought you went and had a pedi with your DD. I can just imagine this!

(((((not2fun)))))! Thanks kid, nice to have you drop in.

You've pinned her down pretty well. Just before I read this post the other day, she asked to talk to me. I'm feeling pretty strong, so I was up for it. I think the fog is finally starting to lift. She's a blubbering sobbing mess. She's starting to see the results of her decisions and she is deeply regretful and openly remorseful about her A with OM#1.

She has not detached and was very hurt and devastated by my admonishment of her continued behavior (including saying she was "disgusting," a poorly phrased DJ). I explained a few things from my perspective and told her I wouldn't be judging her, but would protect my children and teach them according to my moral compass, at all costs. I apologized for the DJ and explained I simply hate adultery and measure male/female relationships on a far different scale than before; I don't hate her, but I hate her actions.

I explained that she does not meet my qualifications for a potential life partner, and that there are multiple things I would need to see before I would remotely consider any sort of reconciliation. (I needed the security of knowing she understood that). In her terms "we just don't understand each other" and therefore "could not get back together any time soon anyway."

I took an opportunity today on the phone to let her know I realize she's in pain, and that I certainly know what that feels like. I also said I'm a better person for it and although I could not help her, I wished her the best in her struggle and encouraged her that she would grow if she really tried to work through some things head on. She acknowledged that she's "always had someone" to bail her out, and doesn't want to go that route this time. She will probably read the Boundaries Book. Who knows she may even start a thread...

I realize all this has set me back in my recovery. But I also think it was kinda part of the process. Part of the detachment process. I needed some answers which I did get by talking reasonable with her. It also gave me a strong indication of just how convicted I am about my new attention to morality and boundaries. I know I have a long way to go, but I feel so much more confident that I can define myself more safely than ever before. Thanks again not2 for the suggested reading material.

I'm glad too. And you know something really crazy? I really feel my kids have benefitted from this, at least so far. Especially DD9. It's been 5 month separated. She is thriving. DS seems completely well adjusted. I have to think there was so much more tension in this household that I never realized was there; it's embarrassing. To our credit STBXww and I have showered them with love and attention in an effort to mitigate their pain. The best thing still would have been if she embraced MB concepts and we could have stayed a family together for all this, but I couldn't make that happen. I think we may have found the next best thing, a far off second, but still not wayyyyyyyyy worse.

Not, if you check this post: thanks for the suggestion to look for a divorce support group in my parish. You know how these things work: there isn't one, so I've been asked to facilitate one. I'm meeting with the priest and a fellow from another community. He has a successful group and tomorrow night we will see what it would entail to get something going.

I'm in noooooooooo rush. It's very strange. I have a feeling I'm going to enjoy thinking of myself as single. I think I may really soak that up for a while before I risk losing that status and freedom. A while....

Optimism

Hey, BC! Haven't seen you in a while.

Funny you mention this bc. The mani/pedi's continue. I'm getting so good I was thinking of opening my own salon. Problem is all those chemicals are just too much for my delicate system.
DD did indeed insist on painting my nails!! I let her do clear. Didn't like it one bit. My nails need to breathe!

Opt

You actually have given me an idea, I might just get me a pedi next time we go out. That'll be a memory neither of us would forget anytime soon. Yeah, I think I'll do that. Father/daughter pedicures....French!
ETA, 8 hours later: No.....maybe not.

Opt, I think your recovery is going very well and you needed to clear the air a little with your WW to move forward.


Be careful here. Keeping alive hopes of reconciliation will hinder your recovery. Your focus needs to be on providing the best possible environment for the kids, continuing your self improvement, and accepting your XW for who she is without trying to change her. You are doing an outstanding job with the first two, still lagging a little on the third one.

One final thought, I am glad that you and the WW are understanding each other better now and hopefully can get along at least cordially. Everyone agrees that an environment where the parents get along, work together, and have mutual cooperation is by far the best situation for the children, and it's a must for a 50/50 parenting plan. It looks like you and the WW are sorting this out and kids are doing well.

When fighting an affair, we all know that a powerful tool is to kill the idea of a "fantacy divorce" where everyone remains friends. That's fine when you're still fighting for the marriage.

However, once the divorce is final there really is no reason to hold onto the resentment. We've all heard the analogy, holding onto resentment is like trying hurt the other person by swallowing the poison ourselves. Sounds like you are starting to let go of some of that resentment, which is healthy for Opt.

Stay strong.

Schtoop! Thanks for your words.

You are so right. I understand about the concept of reconciliation. My hope went to about 1 in 1,000 on the day of the court hearing and has been cut in half on a daily basis ever since. Fact is I still think if she were to really come to a new level of existence and develop boundaries, and accept mine, and get counseling, and get religion, etc, etc., it would still be the best scenario for us to be together. It was after d-day and it is today. However, I also recognize the near impossibility that any of that will take place in my lifetime, and I'm perfectly comfortable with that. That's me now finally accepting her as who she is. Who she is is someone I can't be married to.

Definitely. It really did help to go through some of the confrontations with her. She knows she's messed up. But she also gets that it's time to grow up and take some responsibility for herself. If she takes that to heart, my kids will benefit. That's what matters to me. If she doesn't, I'm okay with that too, because I know my kids are getting a good example for their other parent.

opt

Wow, it's been a while since I was on this thread.
Today was my birthday. I guess my 42nd year of life was one to forget, but certainly one in which I learned and grew a lot.

A month into the divorce. WXW seems to be getting the idea that I'm not going to be buddies with her in divorce land. She didn't even wish me happy birthday, lol; she seems to be trying to respect my boundaries, for someone who has just been introduced to the concept. We had a couple go-arounds in the last weeks, I cant' remember what prompted it but it came down to me explaining my position from an MB perspective and expressing my boundaries, and the healing process I'm trying to engage in. She was receptive for the most part, I think, and the Moving On part of it continues. The brief email exchange dialogue actually felt constructive, at least to me.

Does anyone feel bad for their ex-spouse? I kinda feel bad for her. I keep thinking I have to "hurt" her to help her, and that I'm not "harming" her (and there's a big difference). Maybe it's cause some of the resentment is wearing off, and let's face it I took care of this woman's emotional well-being (in the form of co-dependency type care) for 20 years; of course I didn't do it very well, but it was pretty much my intent to do so. Anyway, it's just difficult to just break off that tendency that almost became instinctual.

Bottom line is I've finally accepted (mostly) that it would take a miracle for her to become the type of person I'd want to spend the rest of my life with. Let's see, she's still essentially wayward in her thinking (although some of that seems to be changing), she doesn't believe in God, she hasn't expressed any interest in MB. [Before I got married, I started watching 90210 because this girl I was interested in watched it... so when I got into MB, it was always indicative to me the lack of feelings my wife-at-the-time (exWW) had for ME that she has rejected even the notion of trying it; it's still that way]

I got a card from ex-MIL and her annual renewal of my subscription to Men's Health. I haven't spoken to her since she encouraged me to "maybe you'll have to just give her what she wants" (the separation/divorce). I can't get past her essentially encouraging me to divorce the mother of her grand children, not to mention her daughter. I'm not really interested in any kind of relationship with the lady. Even though she pretty much adored me, I have moved on from her and all the other in-law family members who became a peripheral, but very real, part of my life for 15 years. Am I a sick person? The holidays are coming and I don't care that all those traditions will be wiped clean away; like I never had much of a connection with those people. I guess I'm just a loner.

Well, I had a great birthday! Some friends from my pool team joined me for dinner (along with my kids) and then we played pool till 11; couldn't have been better. I think life as a 42 year old will be a lot of fun.

Opt

Well, they say 42 is the ultimate answer to everything...maybe you will get all your answers this year.

Just started reading your story and glad to hear things are going well. Happy Birthday!

I'd just like to make a few comments. First, while I can understand you not wanting to have much to do with your ex's family, remember they are your children's family too. If they are at all a positive influence in your children's lives, don't let those relationships slip away. My biggest heartbreak in divorcing my children's father was that he alienated his entire family from me, and them. They lost all their relatives on one side and have often commented on how they missed their uncles.

Second, as far as feeling sorry for your ex spouse, I think that's pretty normal if you are the healthier one. My ex was abusive and I'm glad I divorced him and never want to reconcile; but I feel sorry for him as I see him continuing destructive patterns while my life stabilized and I became happy and healthy emotionally, as well as being able to raise well adjusted children.

Someday you'll look back and realize you did the right thing; it's just difficult when you're living it.

Hey Opt, good to hear from you again.

Glad to see you are doing well on your road to personal recovery.

Sounds like your xWW is starting to figure out where your post-D boundaries are. That hasn't been too much of a problem with me. I think I made my point back when I was in plan A and we had the talk where I bursted her "fantasy divorce" bubble. The only other time I had to remind her was few days after our divorce settlement (we lived together during the whole process). She was still in the house and going "out" for the evening, presumably with OM. I told her she needed to move out immediately, that I would no longer be disrespected under my own roof. She was gone the next day.

Now we communicate almost daily, but it is only short emails or texts concerning some logistics for the kids.

One last thing, xWW has been house hunting on our side of town and was considering a house no more than two blocks away. I heard from my son that one got crossed off the list because it was too worn and "a little too close" to Dad's house. The truth is that boys would have been spending all their time on my street with their neighborhood friends.

Also agree on never going back to the way things were. She hasn't taken the boys to church one time on her own, too lazy to get out of bed on Sunday mornings. Missed the last cub scout meeting (it was her weekend) because they decided to "play hooky". And, she's larger than ever now (always struggled with weight issues).

I also struggle a little with what to do with the inlaws. They have always been there for us and I got along well enough with both of them. The last conversation I had with them (this was post-divorce), we agreed that we'll always be family and I should call on them if I ever needed anything. That's reassuring, but it would still be awkward to initiate some kind of visit or contact under the circumstances. They did call to check on me with I was sick with pneumonia.

Ooops, sorry to derail your thread.

Small world, opt. Yesterday was my birthday. I am happy to report that I received birthday greetings from everyone who is dear to me -- XWW not included.

This Saturday will mark the one year anniversary of the day she dropped the A-bomb on our marriage. One year later she has disappeared. No one I know now has any knowledge of her now, no one has seen or spoken with her (not that I've asked), and for all intents and purposes, has moved to another planet.

I wouldn't have it any other way.

Birthday greetings to you, opt.

Aww, you guys are great! Thanks for checking in on my thread. I'm always so humbled by the support and encouragement I find here.

Karma, I hope you're right!

Anna, thanks so much for the above. I have no intention of alienating the kids from her side of the family, HOWEVER, I'm sure glad you pointed that out to me because I will take extra care not to make that mistake, even inadvertently. As I said, I really don't see myself "hanging out" with her brother or sister, or well, you know what I mean; but in the process I'll not discourage my kids from attending all the family functions they normally would have -- holidays, their little cousin's birthday parties and all those kinds of things.
Yeah, DS said a couple weeks ago that she was crying a lot, randomly. It was probably about her Dad, who is dying of cancer, or it could have been a number of things...I'll admit it's a little difficult not to want to find out what it was and then offer some condolence or whatever, but I know it's time for her to look for another source of comfort and I can't be any influence over that - attempting to do so over the last 15-20 years has landed her right where she's at.
Now I'm rambling.
Glad things are good for you anna, thanks again for the encouragement and direction.

Sh2p, as I've said before, you did this so perfect. Definitely a step I missed/neglected/was afraid to enact was the destroying ww's fantasy divorce picture during her jaunt through affairland; I know the overall outcome would not have changed much, but it would have saved me a bunch of hassle down the road a ways. Oh well, we got through it eventually.
**And never worry about derailing or hijacking or anything else, friend, you're always welcome on my thread!

Seriously, Fred? We share a birthday!? I'm totally honored. Happy birthday to you too, fellow Libra. Good luck on your anniversary coming up. They're tricky but you'll do fine, you've done an exemplary job of recovering.

Take care guys. and thanks again.

Opt

Hey Opt,

What do you know? My birthday was about three weeks ago! And it was #42 for me as well.....

Happy Belated Birthday.

Glad you're doing well. Maybe you can use the holiday season to come up with new traditions for yourself.


TBC

{{{{{OpT}}}}}


HAPPY BELATED BIRTHDAY!!!!!

Whatcha get?????.......

Not

Ps....oh yeah, it's ALL about the presents.......

HEY TBC and NOT!!
@tbc: hoping 42 is better than 41. It is Jackie Robinson's number after all. That has to count for something. Hope all is well TB.

@Not. The kids got me the cutest little makeshift things you could tell they made almost as I was driving to pick them up. But it was all them and I couldn't have loved it any more.

I read your post over there with the e-mails. Thanks for sharing that. That board breaks my heart now and I still feel quite vulnerable. That post had good news and I'm sure will be a source of encouragement for everyone who reads it. Still working on understanding boundaries here. Had some drama a while back with the ex (holiday plans, ugh), boundaries helped a lot. (((Not)))

~Opt~

Okay I had to resurrect this thread because I have an anniversary coming up and it's been on my mind so I just wanted to throw it out there and see if I get any insight or encouragement; or just putting down another piece in the process of Opt's D'd story.

Christmas Eve was always a very special day for Xww & me. It was FAMILY time and I would take the day off and always get a tree (I know, last minute, but that was the tradition since before we got married). Last year it became another "event" in the demise of the marriage when she decided it was perfectly appropriate to plan some time at the tanning salon with OM#2. Well at the time he was "P"OM#2 ("potential" OM#2, because I still believed my wife-at-the-time's lies, ...sheesh).

So, obviously this year begins all new traditions and I plan to take the kids to a hotel the night before in another city and go to the imax and spend time away from home, come back just in time for midnight Mass, and basically not be around on Christmas Eve but still have it be special.

I'd been wanting to go over that here for a couple of weeks because it really is an anniversary of sorts for me and is having a strange effect: not throwing me back or anything, just making me uncomfortable. It was really a sick feeling hearing Xww say "I'm going tanning with OM#2 for a couple hours, be back around noon" -- and then obviously the drama that unfolded and her basically ruining another tradition in the midst of my Plan A (...good grief).

So, I'm particularly compelled to write at this hour and at this juncture because there is a kicker: Drove by Ex's house (9pm) this evening and guess who's car is in the driveway?! Yup POM#2. Removing all doubt about the "potential" part of it.

Now, I'm not busted up about this aspect at all. He's a complete loser and and I think it's funny she's even with him considering all the derogatory things she's said about him in the past. Just shows what a wayward mess will do when they're lonely. Contrasting with myself: I was pretty lonely waiting for the D to be final and had the strength to refrain from sinking that low (with some help from folks here of course). Meanwhile, I'm doing just fine thank you very much, enjoying my divorced life way more than being involved with that embodiment of dishonesty.

Well, thanks folks for letting me get that out here. Maybe there are comments, maybe not. Anyway, I feel better already.

Opt

"So, obviously this year begins all new traditions and I plan to take the kids to a hotel the night before in another city and go to the imax and spend time away from home, come back just in time for midnight Mass, and basically not be around on Christmas Eve but still have it be special."

sounds good

You know what Opt, I was thinking about this in the last week or two. Putting up Christmas ornaments as a family for the last time, my stepson coming home tomorrow to his family home for the last time, us doing the holidays as a family... you get the picture. I think you're doing the right thing by doing something different and establishing a new set of traditons. Christmas next year is going to be radically different for the kids and I as well. I guess my only thought other than, "good job!" would be to say, don't purge all your Christmas traditions entirely; the kids will appreciate a little normal mixed in with the excitement of the new, ya know?

You're doing great Opt; hope you have a wonderful Christmas filled with new and better traditions. :-)

Travis

I was recently going through my old SAA thread since it has been about a year since the "last straw" incident that put the D train in 5th gear.
I'm back here today because I am feeling some strange temptation to get in the exWW's head a little and see if she's satisfied with her decision to blow up our family with various male "friendships" which were apparently more important and meaningful than some silly marriage vow taken so long ago.

I find some sick fascination wondering why the "friendship" with OM#2 seems to have faded. For some reason I want to know how long it took for him to actually put the moves on her (we all knew that's where the whole thing was leading), and if that's why they don't see each other every day like they did while she was married and while I was at work. I wonder if I was such a bad husband that all the struggling she's going through now seems worth walking away.

For my part, my personal situation has improved dramatically, I'm happy to be rediscovering myself and dating a real nice lady. I have no feelings for WexW except some left over resentment for being rejected and for having so blatantly and selfishly disrespected my kids. I don't speak with her except re: the kids at dropoffs etc. (TOO much for my taste, but not much I can do about it).


I'm sure I've developed the boundaries to not act on my tempations, thanks to good folks here and a few beat downs with 2x4s. Besides, she'd LOVE the drama; the exact thing I'm glad to be rid of.
I do wonder if I'm unusual here or if this is pretty normal/ anniversary type stuff. ???
Opt

opt, I'd say you're probably in the the place you need to be right now.

That isn't to say it's a good place, or a place you should stay. Just that this is part of the recovery process.

I still have moments when I wonder if WxW has any regrets or misses what once was. But those thoughts very quickly dissipate. They are replaced with knowledge that WxW isn't like ordinary people. She is filled with selfishness, egocentric motivation and lack of remorse. She has the capacity to self-justify every action and behavior, and likely spends no time looking over her shoulder.

So, why should I?