I'm with Marcos. I would love to be trained.

But I can see how others would take offense. Different strokes for different folks.

I'll agree that if a wife tries to train her husband (or vice versa), it's a disrespectful judgment. She better not be trying to train him.

But he better be trying to train himself, with a good training program, and maybe a good coach.

Training, braining, whatever...

I just want someone who is motivated to learn and change BASED ON WHAT THEY HAVE LEARNED.

Last night he told me that I was the rock, the center of this family keeping everything together.

I told him that I wished he would be the rock. I could really use a rock beneath MY feet, too. He didn't get mad, he just hugged me.

That sounds encouraging, and I hope it felt encouraging to you.

CWMI, I've been off the boards for awhile, just now catchng up on your story. I sure do hope things improve, and soon.

DTC

I have also been off the boards since July and wanted to say I am sorry you are in this situation and I hope something positive comes out of this.

Thanks, ya'll. I'm pretty much in limbo...everything is going well between H and I, I'm actually pretty psyched about going to N'Orleans, we're staying riverside and have tons of stuff to see and do within a mile, and after looking at schedules, me and the kids will only be missing one day of school instead of three. The kids' school has 'professional development' days, and I don't have to attend my Tuesday class because it's part of 'speech day' rotation and I was able to speak this week, listen next, and not attend the third week.

"Limbo" because I've been apologized to I don't know how many times for his abusiveness and nastiness, and it's just flat now. His running to threats of abandonment is just so ugly and ridiculous and immature, and I know those are DJs but I don't really care anymore.

I'm reading that book schoolbus mentioned several times on SAA, "Leadership and Self-Deception" and it is so dead-on about my life. I don't know if H will read it. He saw me reading it and asked about it, but I had just started it and didn't have much to tell him, only that I'd heard it was about creating problems by your own self-deception and that I read the introduction online and thought I would enjoy it. I wish he'd ask again. Or pick it up. Because even though I know that I shouldn't be looking at other people's 'boxes', I know that MANY MANY issues would be resolved if my H would find his way out of his box. He gets so angry at others when he has done something wrong. Mostly, he gets hateful toward me if he's done something to betray trust.

I'm just living, not worrying too much about him at all, just focusing on my kids and my schoolwork and I'm really proud of some extra stuff I've done at school lately, creative work I was sought out for and now the finished product is up and it's awesome.

H says that he will never ever let things at this place get like they were at the last. I don't believe him, told him so, and told him that the reason why I DON'T believe him is because the first time it came up and I said I wasn't happy about it, he threatened to divorce me instead of changing anything at work. I think that's valid.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...at&Number=2431529&gonew=1#UNREAD


One can learn not to do this. I used to do this when I was in college. It took a long time of my classmates complaining (military school- they couldn't just ignore me) before I could actually see I was exploding in anger at people around me for things they didn't do. Or over-reacting to the little things they DID do.

Part of my "recovery" was taking responsibility for my own anger (someone can be stupid, but that doesn't mean I have to be angry about it). For example, guy cuts me off in the road. I can react or not react- it's my choice.

Another part of recovery was taking steps to resolve the things in my life that weren't right, whether they were my fault or not. For example, it's not my fault my dad was abusive and sent to jail for a few years. But until I dealt with that anger and grief that anger was spilling into other areas of my life. I was like the ocean after a storm- calm on top, but still a lot of angry energy under the calm waves so it didn't take much extra energy to stir me back up. Dealing with the event helped calmed the seas so I wouldn't over react.

I'm not giving these examples to threadjack, but to explain what I mean.

Hopefully your husband can 1) realize he needs to and then 2) actually get to the source of what's really bothering him about himself. I wonder if that will make him more willing to meet your needs.

Unfortunately, I don't think either one of those is a process you can speed up for him.

I think he is willing, but not able. I am honestly at the point where i believe that he knows what is right, and wants to do the right things, but has no idea how to reconcile that to societal demands and proceeds to do whatever it takes to ensure that the most people possible think well of him so that he may feel well of himself.

As I am a mere one of dozens of people he interacts with daily, I don't count for much on his grand scale. He handles me with appeasement. Just like he handles everyone else.

Hey, CWMI, I know last time you sat down with your husband and you guys did the "how do you see marriage, whatcha want from it, etc etc" questions.

I know you feel your husband has a lot of issues that he needs to work on. I'm curious. How does he view you?

Is he comfortable enough to be honest with you to say, "I don't like it when you X and Y and Z?"

I bring this up because how we see ourself is always a bit different (maybe not always though) from the way others see us. My wife and I do the occassional "how am I doing as a husband/wife in your eyes? And is there anything I can do that I'm not doing that you would like?"

kt, In my experience with him, I am the most horrible person imaginable and incompetent as a wife and mother AFTER I've called him on something.

If things are going well (iow, he hasn't betrayed me lately, or I have offered forgiveness for a betrayal) then I am a Proverbs 31 woman and the most solid person he's ever known. I am a rock and he is so grateful and wants to be like me.

He has told me that most people are not as open and honest as I am, and that is why I have problems relating to people. They don't know how to take it. Society is not honest, and I should adapt?

KT, I do want to add...I've been turning circles on MY PART. Am I pretty enough? Am I smart enough? (Am I rough enough? Am I tough enough? I'm not too blind to see...don't let me be your beast of burden...lol)

The only things he would like me to do that I'm not doing is:

1. Be at the whim of his job

2. Not hate it when he jobs oversteps our family.

CWMI, I think you know what is going on here. He is ashamed that he cannot meet your need. He feels he cannot earn a standard of living that he can be proud of and also meet your requirements as to hours worked, business intrusion into personal life, business travel, etc. Instead of turning inward and searching for a way to satisfy the competing demands, he turns on you. And asks you to reduce your demands.

Not MB behavior. Not loving and cherishing your spouse. But very common and understandable.

It doesn't matter whether he views your needs and boundaries as reasonable. You are entitled to want what you want. No reason for you to be enthusiastic about his falling short or his refusing to even try to meet your ENs. No reason for you to feel romantic love for him if he continues to behave the way he behaves.

But as you say, maybe he simply cannot do better. Or maybe he can, but he is so convinced he can't that he won't even try. Doesn't matter which it is. He has decided he is not going to meet your ENs. His choice leaves you with a very tough decision.

My wife has recently decided, at least as far as I can tell, to give up on my ever meeting her need for FS. She appears to be willing to stay with me and make the best of it even though I am unable to meet her need. You are not obliged to make the same choice. In many ways I would admire you if you decided to leave him. That would take guts I don't have.

Is this something he has verbally stated as you have typed or how you feel?


I think most people are confrontation avoiders and so they don't speak their mind or are a bit more polite than needed. Now my wife is a type A personality. She was very at ease with telling people exactly what she thought when she wanted. However, her message didn't come across because she came across as very very rude and demeaning. She would say that she did not mean to come across that way but if people couldn't take it...oh well, wasn't her problem...people are just to sensitive.

Thankfully she's calmed a bit so that now she's honest without ripping their spine out.

Have you asked him these things? I think we can internalize things about how our spouse might feel till we're exhausted and we still don't know if we're right or not.


Are these things he's said. Or are they how you think he feels?

p.s. Was your husband an only child? Was his dad a workaholic?

My dad was. Still is. He can't stay retired if his life depended on it.

CWMI:

I still beleive that you are locked in the same dance that my BW and I had.

Work first, all else second.

MB trained me out of that. How I could still do what I needed to do at work, but I provided my BW with the information she needed to run her life.

When the boss says I have to work late, or go away, or do X, Y and Z, I call my BW and tell her what is up, and then I go tell the boss what I can DO.

That puts you first. You feel that you are number 3, 4, 7, or 15 on the list. And NO wife should be in that space.

Work on THAT for a while. Just have him keep you in the loop about what is happening. A text message, or a quick phone call, "work till 6 2night" or "Sudden order, will leave @ 6:30" or "Boss says trip to Cleveland around Nov 5th, what's happenening?"

Get him trained on the simple things, of bringing you into the loop. THe bigger concerns will start to get addressed that way.

And no DJ's about: "I have told him to do that before!, and he doesn't!" "he isn't that concerned", etc.

Your looking for a better marraige. He wants you to be happy. You can't get happy until he starts treating you like an equal. So start small, and build from there.

LG

kt, over and over again in our interactions, it begins with me stating that I'm not happy about something that he did or plans to do, and he responds with a list of things that I have done 'wrong' (the list of 100 pages??? still haven't seen that).

He has said he wants me to show more support of his career by doing exactly those things: adjusting our plans to fit the whims of his job and to do so happily. No, his father barely ever worked at all, they were extremely poor. Whether or not he was an only child is debatable. He has something like 20 siblings if you count all of his natural parents' children and the children of their various spouses over the years, so sometimes he lived with no siblings in the home, full siblings in the home, half siblings in the home, or step-siblings in the home. Varied month to month and year to year. ETA: sometimes he lived with other relatives, and even some non-relatives as well.

LG: "When the boss says I have to work late, or go away, or do X, Y and Z, I call my BW and tell her what is up, and then I go tell the boss what I can DO." How can I get him to do THAT? He does call and tell me what he is doing, after the decision is made. He considers that to be 'keeping me in the loop.' How do I get him to see that I need to be part of the decision-making process?

CWMI, it sounds like he's in a tit-for-tat mode in which you bring up something you are not comfortable with and he responds with something on your end or 2 things.

Aside from him thinking you should be okay with decisions related to his job, when he talks about the things you do wrong that is 100 pages wrong, does he go into specifics?

I could be wrong but it sounds like he has the typical traits a woman has (no offense to women) in which they store a bunch of stuff up and then just lash it all out at once when the man brings up something he is displeased with.

No, no specifics. He'll say something like, "Oh yeah? Well YOU make decisions and then tell ME that I just need to accept it!"

I'll say, "Like what? Give me an example of a time i did that."

And he'll say, "Well, I can't think of anything right now. But I'm sure i could list a hundred!"

Or he'll say, "YOU keep secrets, YOU lie!" I'll ask for a specific example, he'll have none ("can't think of one right now, but I will! Oh, you betcha I will!" or--even better--"oh, you know what I'm talking about, don't pretend you don't! I don't have to tell you, because you already know what I'm talking about, don't play dumb."). It would be hilarious if it wasn't my life.

It would be nice if he had specifics. Sometimes he does, but they're so way out from left field that it's hard to take the complaint seriously. I'll say, "I'm not happy about you buying a car without discussing it with me first." and he'll reply, "Oh yeah, well you spent an hour on the phone with your sister!" wth? Are these things related? Did he plan and execute the buying of a car during that hour-long conversation, and I was too busy to talk to? I would have gotten off the phone to discuss it! lol. This was not recent, btw, although we have had a recent discussion about car-buying--we agreed that barring an emergency, we would not purchase another car until the end of 2012. Then I caught him shopping for one online, narrowing his search down to our local area for a specific vehicle. He was offended that I would question him about his intention, after all, it was no different from me looking at multi-million dollar mansions for sale. Um, he has NEVER come home to discover that I have bought a $5mil mansion, I have come home many, many times to discover that he had bought a car without discussing it.

*sigh*

cwmi, when you talked with Steve, did you all have like a back-up plan? What to do when living with your H was making more withdrawals than deposits, and speaking to him wasn't bringing the win-win solutions?