swan's song,
I definitely can see my X in:
Glibness and superficial charm
Manipulative and conning
Pathological lying
Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity

I'm really trying to push aside the emotions and see him and our R (past and present) as it really is.

Wed he asked if I could help w/company paperwork and tried to make me feel guilty that one bill had not been paid on time - I would not "own" it. I agreed to help but, before I got there he was already telling me I could wait til another day. I said "no" as I wanted to get it out of the way. All the time I was there - and I hurried through the stack - he was nasty and short and used the excuse that he did not feel good - yet again.

Yesterday, he was a totally different person, playing nice, making sexual comments and giving me compliments!!!!! It was like Wed PM never happened. His excuse? He didn't feel good.

He did say that all the phone calls that were on his long distance bill were to a woman that was one of his customers. That is a strange R as she is married but husband is out of town a lot. Of course, I don't believe any of what he says b/c of all the amazing lies he has told in the past. He also got at least 2 text messages from another female customer yesterday that I saw.

Just really trying to put more distance there and really trying to dissect his words and deeds and see it all for what it really is.

L2S what about you try an experiment. A temporary Plan B to gain some perspective on you, your life and your exH.

Say for 3 months, go completely NC. No phone calls, no emails, not text, no getting news of him from other people. Tell him you need some time to yourself and get some perspective.

At the end of the experiment, look at your life and look at your past and then REALLY make an informed decision on whether you want him in your life or not.

I think you'll be surprised by the result.

So what do you think?

I agree. Since you aren't able to commit to an endless Plan B, how about 3 months? You can do anything for 3 months.

And honestly, I don't think the man is sick. I think he is evil. There is a difference.

As regards your vacation, jealousy and possessiveness are not measures of caring or love. Your X doesn't love you. He uses you. He is like a vampire. He feeds on your emotion, your pain, your efforts to make him happy. But you are food to him. Vampires are evil, even Ann Rice says so.

And as regards the double standard, get used to it. You are like the dog. The dog owner doesn't follow the same rules as the dog. That would be insane. This is how your ex sees it.

TODAY, you should go get a new cell phone number and send it to everyone who you can trust not to give it to your ex. Ditto the email address. Then, you lock up the old phone. Don't answer it, don't look at it. Unplug the house phone. Have your daughter cull the mail, tossing anything the ex sends. Stay in no contact for three months. Then, if you decide you still want to be in touch with this vampire, then call him up. Trust me, he'll be there. He'll probably try to make you pay for escaping him, evil people do, but he'll take you back to the place you are right now.

Oh, and just in case you forget...

Your X is evil. You are not emotional food for someone else to consume and use. You are not a pet dog. You are a good and valuable human being with a soul and a purpose in life. You are a child of God. It matters not what your X thinks. It doesn't even matter what you think. You are one of God's own children and you are valuable beyond measure.

Thanks for that Gg. You're a true blessing.
Opt

In fact, I liked this so much I used it with my 9th grade CCD (religious ed) class this evening. So, thanks again. Your words have touched more people than you might have thought when you wrote them.
Opt

I wish someone had educated me when I was little. It would have saved me. I never was with a separated MM. I'm so grateful.

Opt--Thanks. I remember when I realized this. I know where I was and exactly what I was doing. I remember thinking it didn't matter if my X didn't think I was worth the effort because God created me, and it only matter that I thought I was worth while. But immediately after that, I finally made the next leap. What difference did it matter WHO that I had value or not? If I thought I wasn't worth much, it may lead me to bad decisions, but my opinion couldn't change the intrinsic value of something God made.

I'm really trying hard to see him as he really is. I'm trying to set aside the emotion and focus on the tactics. It's sad that I find myself delaying doing things I want to do because I am afraid to tell him that I'm doing x, whatever that may be.

He has a way of trying to make me feel bad that he has no one in his life. One child is in another state and the other one maintains contact to get what he can out of his dad. And, he has limited association with his family. One brother lives right across the street but there's no R.

He really tries to make me feel as though the bad R w/my family is my fault. He doesn't seem to understand that everyone knows what he did and that's what they're angry about and that's why they don't want me w/him. It's not that I told them that they know - or not all of it anyway as he did so much in front of others that told other people.

He's talking again of moving out of state and of us just being friends b/c he doesn't want to be alone anymore and we have no chance to repair R b/c I'm too embarrassed by all that he has done. And, yes, I have to admit that I am embarrassed and would be ashamed and feel stupid that people knew what he did yet I went back to him.

Sorry for the rambling. A lot of what he says is right on target. I would be ashamed and think people would view me as an idiot for taking him back after all he's done. I find myself very estranged from my own family b/c I can't be around both at the same time. They think he's lower than dirt and I wonder sometimes what they know that I don't.

My sister told me that she knew that he was seeing someone that he had been seeing before and then, when I pressed her, she clammed up. Said she was sorry she said anything and that if she thought it would matter she would tell me, but she doesn't think it will make a difference because nothing else has. And she's right.

I don't want to go through another Thanksgiving and Christmas trying to be w/him and w/my family b/c I feel bad that he has no family. I know he hasn't been alone all the holidays and he's been w/other women.

Grrrrr. I feel so stupid even writing this. I just want this over and I know I'm the only one that can do it.

If you don't stop feeling sorry for him and let him take the consequences of his own actions - let him hit bottom on his own - he will never, ever have the slightest chance of changing. Why should he, when he can always count on you to be there for him no matter how horribly he behaves?

What happened to doing Plan B for three months?

Honestly, I'm having a hard time mustering up the nerve to do it. It all stems from the fear of never finding anyone and having the unhealthy, broken R we have is better than nothing at all. Sad but true.
I know in my gut that this is incredibly unhealthy and I can verbalize all the reasons why yet I can't bring myself to close the door.
I want to. I desperately want to. You have no idea how badly I want to. I keep hoping he will move and then find myself hoping he doesn't.
I continue to take a dispassionate look at everything and, although I keep saying that I don't want to lose what there is, I still have no desire to be in a full-time R w/him and I have no desire to have a physical R w/him b/c I don't trust that I would be the only one.
Oh well. Off to bed.

What do you think you are losing?

L2S, you don't want to end the relationship as much as you want to continue it. If you'd rather have what you have today instead of risking not having someone for a long while, that's your choice.

The only thing I can say is that there are NO GUARANTEES in this life aside from God's love and salvation. You can stick with your X becuase you don't want to risk being without someone. But, that doesn't guarantee you won't end up alone. Your X to move, he could start to fix his own problems, and that would maybe lead him to stop feeding off of you, or he could wind up dead.

There are only two relationships here on earth that last our entire life time. The relationship with have with ourselves and our relationship with God. I know what I say is harsh. Sometimes the truth is harsh, and it is often unpleasant. Yet the truth will surely set you free.

L2S, you bring to mind a famous quote by Albert Einstein:
You are unhappy the way things are and you aren't willing to do what it takes to change it. How on earth do you expect things to change?

I just get so sad sometimes when I'm alone and/or allow my mind to wander to what might have been.
I talked to him today and he was talking about trying to find a job as his health continues to decline and he needs insurance. But then I think that under the new insurance laws there are high risk pools that he can now access. In our state it's $495 per month. I don't know what all it covers but, if he made some spending adjustments, he could pay that. He has a business and if he did one side job per month plus cut back on all the junk food and drinks he buys on a daily basis he could afford it. So, maybe he doesn't have it b/c he doesn't want it or he wants to use it as "feel sorry for him" leverage. In any event, it works!!
I'm trying to distance myself and not call as I once was. We do occasionally speak but not like we were.
My D is back home as the summer is gone and she has started college at a local school. So, that has limited the time I see him in the evenings.
I know I am bringing only pain on myself by maintaining attachment but he's like a drug to an addict or a drink to an alcoholic. I can be sober for only so long and then ..........
I want a life and I want to move on but then there is an insane part of me that misses what could have been and I start to slide again.
Just don't give up on me. I have no one else to share this and I desperately need you guys to talk to about how I am feeling.

Ahem.

I may be butting in here, but there were several comments that provoked me to respond.

The first is your 'handle.' You call yourself 'life2short,' but are not acting in a way consistent with that idea. You have put yourself in a rut and rather than work your way out of it, you continue to stay there.

This goes along with your comment

Do you know how alcoholics and addicts get sober? They do it through abstinence. You continue to set yourself up for "relapse" through your interactions with him.

As harsh as it sounds, you should start a healthy and solid Plan B: stop all contact with him! In the addiction recovery business you are one who would be defined as a co-dependent. You are enabling him and by doing so are preventing your own recovery.

I learned it here first, and then elsewhere, that NO CONTACT with the person or substance that is abusing you is the best course of action. And make no mistake, you are being abused -- with your consent, even -- by him. It is not your responsibility to see that his needs, healthwise or other, are taken care of.

If you could only read your words in such a way as you could hear them. That would be much like looking yourself in the mirror. Can you see/hear the person writing those words?

Tabby1 offered a quote by Einstein. I'll offer a similar one, so that maybe you can get a grip on the problem:

"Nothing changes if nothing changes."

L2S, Is getting sad so awful? If it's depression, you need medical and talk therapy. If it's not depression, sadness is really a gift. It's painful and unpleasant, but it does a lot of good. It's medicine. And the unpleasantness doesn't last forever. You grow through it and get stronger and happier.

I get so annoyed at how most of the self-help books make it seem like the ultimate goal in life is to be forever happy. Please.

There's a good book out there. C.S. Lewis's book The Problem of Pain. It's very interesting and helpful. I also like Frankel's Man's Quest for Meaning although it's very academic.

Many hugs. We only bully you because we care.

Well. I typed out a LONG response earlier only to find that it did not post for some reason.

Distance is being put between the two of us by both of us. It is sad but I do know that it's for the best. I do know that so much has gone on between us that I don't see how we could ever make a go of it but, it still hurts.

Whenever I talk to him there are constant complaints about something:
he doesn't feel good
his employees are being careless and forgetting supplies needed on the job
his son is being a jerk
someone made him mad
a customer ticked him off
he makes evasive comments about tying up loose ends
talks about needing to leave all this behind and start fresh somewhere else

Two of the biggest issues that still exist between the two of us that can be directly attributed to our divorce are:
1 - his relationships w/other women
2 - his R/with his son

The other women thing - I have caught him lying in the past about who was calling him. This was a couple of years ago but the cell rang and he looked at it and said that's so and so - and mentioned a guy's name - and said he would call back. I asked him to show me the phone. He did and it was the OW.
Now when the phone rings or he gets a text message he will sometimes show me and sometimes he will say that's so and so and won't show me. So, of course, when he won't show me I believe it's a woman. He also continues what I think is an inappropriate amount of contact w/a customer whose husband is out of the country. Supposedly he's friends w/both but she's the one he was talking to at 1am and ran up $25.00 at 5 cents a minute on the phone w/her. She texts him all the time but there's nothing there according to him - she's like a sister!?!?!?

The other issue is his son. He's 24 - two kids by two women that he married after the kids were born - twice divorced. Now has 3rd girl pregnant and rumor is he has beaten her up before. He has his finances all tied up in trying to help son. Is always giving him money or paying for something for him and son supposedly pays him back. Not my concern but used to drive me crazy and still would.

Know I'm rambling but trying to come to terms with it all and it helps to "talk it out" with you all.

L2S,

Re-read your post please.

Then, explain to me how your ex's opinion or feelings are worthy of even the slightest twinge of pain.

You do know this vampire couldn't tell platinum from mica, lobster from tofu, or wine from vinegar. That's pretty much the reason you can't have a relationship with him. An Angel of Mercy would probably have to knock him upside his head just to get his attention.

Greengables,
I KNOW you are right. My head tells me to run. My head tells me to think about it and mull it over and contemplate it ad nauseum.

I don't WANT to be in this rut and the only one that can get me out of it is ...... ME.

I am wasting precious years of my life, time I will never regain. I desperately want to move on with my life - whatever that turns out to be. I am a very young middle-aged woman with many good years left yet I feel them draining away along with missed opportunities.

I know I will be happier b/c I am happier w/o him. He is negative, controlling, manipulative and obsessive-compulsive. He's untrustworthy and unfaithful.