Harmony,

The secret of a good life is to allow good people to have a positive affect on you, and to leave bad people alone. Who knows what your H really is. It is up him to define himself and it is up to you to decide if he is a "good people" in your life or a "bad people". Doesn't make him good or bad, but people who don't have a positive affect on you should really be avoided if possible.

I would say right now he is a "bad people" because has a very negative affect on you, thus...TA DA Plan B.

I have no doubt that you will forever regret your affair. But, that should lead to you having a better life, a better perspective on life, better coping skills (I won't do that again), and perhaps better insight into people. You cannot achieve these things holed up in your house and avoiding people.

Please do something for me...LIVE!

God Bless,

JL

Hi All

Finally, managed to get it together, really recommend not breaking Plan B, unless under the right terms

OK I am moving towards actually having a LIFE.

I have booked my place at the Works Xmas party, alone (billy no mates?)

I have told my GFs that I am GOING to the party on Sat night, its actually just us 4 chicks going out, so looking forward to that.

I have sent a congratulations email to the girl who is getting engaged (must be happy for others)

I have had my STD test results back and they are clear

The lock has now been put on the door, so no drunkard H coming in the house

I have got back to my excercise routine

I have also read the GODDESS thread which is hilarious, and got a few tips...

Thanks, as usual, you know what I am going to say, I don't know quite what I would do without this place.

Harmony

Yes I know this, sometimes though, using Constants words it is not so easy sorting out the wheat from the chaff so to speak. What I mean is picking out the wrong uns. Back to that picker again.

I think I am getting better though, and if I am honest it is going on facts and instincts.

To be honest I am quite lucky there are not many people that have a negative effect on me, only that GF that I mentioned who had the married mans baby. I just keep my distance but still see her occasionally I try not to see her on her own (this is when she is worse) but in a group with others. If I didn't see her then it would make things more difficult for the wider group.

I still have hope at the bottom of my heart that H will snap out of it, grow up and see the errors of his ways. I won't stop it moving forward with my life.

Harmony

Hi Harmony,

I'm glad you got the locks secured, I bet it feels good to be in control of your life again. Well done indeed.

R

Now, just be careful he does not talk you into giving him the NEW KEY!!!!

(this happens with many women in your situation)

Yes it does Niitse, thanks!

Safe and sound and can get on with things x

Hi Harmony,
Sounds like you are off and running with your new life........now the trick is to really enjoy your time, live for today and don't worry about tomorrow or the next day......
I agree with you this place is a God's sent. I know I would not be so strong without all the support you get here, and the 2x4's, they keep you in check because they really care about you .........and me.................isn't it the best........cheers........
jessi

Good Harmony,

So you have an inside lock so he can't get in when your home, but did you change main locks so he won't be there when you get home?

Do you have a GF or brother who can stay with you also?

I guess you are planning on calling the Po-Po if he egts violent or wont go away from the door. Please follow thru with charges and/or restraining order if the cops have to come.


Right now I am concerned for your welfare more thatn your marriage. It might not be pure MB but you can work on your marrige after he has control over himself..

Heck he needs that anyway to even start..

Have a great time at the events!

lol Bubbles - your so right! I will not be giving him the new key. The great thing is, if he turns up whilst I am in, I dont have to deal with it! If he gets angry I can just call the police - love it.

Jessi - yeah this place is brilliant, I have never been this grounded in my entire life, actually making sensible thought through decisions, novelty! It also helps only thinking of today, as if I start to think too much about the future it is a bit scary - you know sorting out everything as a fall out..

Constant - Only changed the locks from the inside, I guess he could get in whilst I am out, but I am afraid that if he can't get in at all, he will make a stand and move back in or something, yikes.

I could get someone to stay with me but really I think I will be ok, as long as H cant get in. I have plans almost every night for the next week, so I am hoping that I won;t be around for him to bother. Thanks for the concern.

I am still having nightmares/bad dreams, but I guess thats part of the fall out, last night I dreamt that a mutual friend started telling me all of these stories of what H had been upto whilst we were living together, just a dream though.

After getting my head back together, I realise what a wreck my H was on Sat, and how is still so foggy, not my problem at the moment.

Good night all.

Ok Harmony, so what has sent him a message that he is not welcome or the Police will be called if he comes over?

If you are waiting for something physical to happen, well it allready did right? He struck you after your A, and I am sure his overtures of threatened violence had something to do with why you last let him stay and slept with him.

My crystal ball,(ha-ha, not funny anymore), predicts this escalating to violence every time you stand up to how he treats you, of course unless you cave and let him abuse you. We are all concerned and supportive but practically just words on a forum. It will worry us to no end if you stop posting because you ended up in the hospital so... Make it clear you don't want him to step foot in the house, and be absolutly sure he agrees and will not pay you a visit, drunk or not.

Until you are sure of this use any sort of pressure available. restraining order, threats from lawyers, the police, family, until HE caves to YOUR wishes. He has got to respect your wishes in this for your safety and future and if there is any hope, although slim as far as I can see, at a reconciliation or even a safe divorce.


I have helped chase many abusive men out of womens lives by simply going to court with them,(with my wife included) and holding thier hand through the process. I'm talking about men like your H. They either changed then and thanked me/us later or the women let them back and they got abused again. I am talking about violence, not minor disputes. Ex-cons, Skin heads, Backward selfish idiots from who knows where , they are seriuosly in need of discipline, or where I come from its called "a beating", but the law is the only way to handle what they need. If its done with the courts then at least there is a chance of fairness and proper treatment. They need to feel fear of consequences that outwiegh thier own screwwed up judgement. The depth of the person decides whether its the fear of jail time and loss of freedom, or the loss of a realtionship is what motivates them to change. But in the long run they made the bed, now they must lay in it, if they don't experience the consequences they will never change or learn. Yes its his problem, dont let it become yours.

Its amazing how women are attracted to bad dogs and then whine when they are bitten, only to let them back in. Its only at the point of violence that they should realize how they are intimidated but they sometimes are convinced or still beleive its thier fault and continue the relationship, or they start to learn to value themselves and stand up for themselves. They think they are helping them and that they can't help themselves but in reality they are just enabling them. Actions speak louder than words

Hard question...Which one are you gonna be?

The recovery process has only begun for you. The relief you feel and the hope you have experienced is only the beginning of healing. It is clear to me that you still on the fringe of your emotions have been willing to be a victim if the circumstances are right. You are not there yet Harmony, We, and law enforcment, understand that. Thats why we all stand up for you even when you sometimes sabotage yourself. Thats why we get so mad at the ACTIONS of your H and because those actions define who he is in the real world, what we are mad at is yes, him. Untill he is out of your life for enough time for you to really heal there will be no quick fix. Like I said, we all know this, that you are weak right now, many of us have experienced it and only the foolishly proud would pretend they have never been weak.

H doesn't care right now about anything but himself. If he were complient to MB and able to feel remorse maybe you could heal in his presence,but that is just not the case, so you MUST be protected from him by an authority stronger than you are. Do you understand? We are just words on a forum. You need more than a simple lock that only keeps him out when your home and you wishing he wouldn't come over. You need live people and real consequences for his actions to speak for you.

It would be a shame if this escalated and you had even more regret that could last a long, long time, maybe the rest of your life. If you didn't get it yet, his life too.

Time to see the light Harmony, Love is an action verb. If he loved you he would love you and he doesn't. Are you really so convinced you don't deserve better that you cling to a hope in only him? Do you think it is a man? Do you know that Love is worth fighting for? For yourself first ALLWAYS, that doesn't mean selfishness to love yourself with no reguard for others, this is wrapped up in your boudaries. Time for some understanding for yourself and self examination, and time to stop trusting your feelings until they reflect protection for you, and a clear view of reality.

Worried about you and praying

Hi Newbie,

Am in a bad gunfighter mood now. Unlike your H I would attempt to pysically wreck any guy who approached my W in terms of trying to even look at her seductively or seduce her. That is naive but know what, I would want to have my love knowing that even if the OM was able to gun me down. I do not know why I like and respect you, but I do. Point is sweet Harm I talked to Char tonight abit ago and it was about fears about her health and our future. Basically she has had what had been derterminded as a urinary infection. Well Harm have learnd this afternoon it culd be worse.

oop. sorry but I pushed the wrong button before I completed my post to you.

I am affraid tonight as you may be. I am fully aware Sweet Harm that one day - one morning - I may not wake up, At age 68 what would you expect! Not that I dwell on it - I am active and feel or felt vibrant up to today. Char is ill and maybe seriously so as I learned this afternoon. You women have got to realize how you do affect your man. I love Char very much more than any guy could. If she is seriously ill and that will not be known until next week then I don't know jsut that I am angry with God tonight. I fully realize that you cannot go on forever and that there is not reason to be angry with God, but by God Harm I am hurting. You guys are young, and while I agree with you and support you in your Plan B, there is no earthly substiture for what you two may lose. It takes a courageous man to love and provide for someone like you, and especially my Char. Fortunately Char and I have not gotten to this point. Yea, her brief affair with sme POS at the nursing home last fall, but we are well beyond that and it was due te her feeling abondoned. The point is Harm Char and I have now earned our love, life together, and history. We have two great kids. Neither of us pussyfoot around with each other as Just Learnign suggests to you, in terms of psycho babble - she ropes and 'cowgirls' me whenever she wants to n our converatiosns - she is always been direct, honest, and forceful.

Right now I do not now sweeti, its pretty hard.

Tom

I wanted to add a little something on what I beleive is nessesary for change in a person. Its aimed at the general populace and not just for your specific sitch Harmony, but of course it can be applied.

Its been quoted on this site that people wont change until the pain that they are experiencing at the moment is greater than what they would experience if they did.

This leads into many areas, some of them so screwed up in life experiences and wrong thinking at the outset that emotions and fear can fog us up and we can even change for the worse. Undefined guilt or unrealistic expectations can lead us to going the wrong direction and trying to be more than we were designed for, or ever could be.

So pain itself does not allways serve us correctly in our self examination and attempts at improvment. Many times we take on the battles of others when in fact we are making ourselves miserable and robbing them of thier own life lessons. IMO this is not love for them, but a love for ourselves and what we hold important, unless we include the truth and the consequences.

In the case of many people it comes down to thier own self-image and moral compass.

First it is important to have a balanced self-image. One that reflects the attitude that they are free to change because it is the only thing they can do to protect themselves, and that they are worth the effort. They must see themselves as both unique and valuable, with the capacity to screw up big time, and know they will learn for the rest of thier lives how to live better though better choices in thought and action.

The moral compass is the one that also includes the treatment of others. This is taught to us mostly at childhood by the examples of our parents or who we look up to and respect. Parents only can give the lessons they have learned and prepare you with the values they have. Even the best know that each person has to make there own way and that they will have to learn some things they didn't teach them about specifically, They know that they will allways need a teacher for thier conscience ,protection, peace of mind and success in life. Life is a learning experience and we are allways growing. The morals are our boundaries that we fear to break because the consequences will be painful to us. They are rules we live by and question often as they develop. The fence put around us that sometimes we reject and jump over only to find ourselves in deep trouble, and sometimes we find the fence so limiting to what we percieve as freedom we rebel agaist it. Only to find ourselves trapped by our own hand. Life isn't fair, we were only trying to do what we thought was right at the time, and until we realize life was fair, we are to fearful to change.

I am not saying that everything that happens to us is right in its nature or intention, or that the world allways treats us correctly, I am saying this shouldn't be a surprise to us. we were probably warned, and didn't listen, so in that way it is fair.


In the cases of people who are severly damaged by poor treatment and have had their values twisted to the point of selfish behavior that hurts others, all we can do is stand for the truth and protect ourselves from them. Even when they seem to be interested in good wholesome things but want a short-cut instead of working for them.

Many want an inside advantage and they rob themselves from the joy of earning what they possess. Money is a wonderful tool but not valued for what it is by the thief, so they never have enough. Drugs bring a euphoria that is empty in its selfish concept that it is reality. Abuse and use of others is an expression of power and a reaction of fear that we are not really valuable creatures after all, so we attempt to make ourselves important therefore valuable.

So we are taught it is wise to say, "Whats in it for me?". It is the nature of man to do this. Its smart to "go along to get along" as anybody who has driven on a freeway where the speed limit is 55, and everyone is going 70 at rush hour, knows they better stay with the traffic. We have rules that we see broken every day, we are tempted to take short cuts and wonder how some people get away with things as we tow the line. We are selfish by nature, its no surprise that people cheat when they don't see or beleive there are any consequences. People who seem to have no conscience also seem to be the happiest, and those with a conscience seem to suffer and want you to suffer too as they warn you of consequences you just don't see ..yet..

There is a balance between what we have to do to survive and what we know is right. Some things stand out as easy choices but others are blurred by life experiences, wrong teaching, or emotional damage. For some people they never admit they have a problem or even question thier motives for thier actions. They will not dig deeper and thier conscience becomes so calloused that they do not feel others pain. They choose to hide in the darkness of thier own perception as it serves them well. Others do what they have to do to survive while attempting to make thier personal life and the world a better place to live.

Progress within ourselves most times is slow, but it is worth it when we are going in the right direction, and the results might take time to see, but there is no short cut. The realization that we are on the right side of the road can be imediatly enjoyed and cherished because that is all we ever are, on a road with a journey in life worth living and fighting for.


Harmony, the point and part of all this for you is this.. You are very capable of growing and learning and are doing so in you humility in seeking help from others...

I don't know if your H is, I am sure he has the tools, as in a brain, but what about his basic core values? What is the pain of loss he will feel? Will it be purely selfish or will he care about you?

See I don't think a transformation for him will come easily. I don't believe he wont regress once he becomes comfortable again if you reconcile. I think his problems run deep, and you are too sweet and forgiving,(A normal trait BTW, A wife shouldn't have to be her mans coach and parent)...to hold him to what he should be, or that he would dig deep enough to change for his own good.


I know my posts are long, but I could have just said, "dump the bum, you can do better, If he gets it together then he will be lucky if you let him back" and I don't think it would have meant much to you even though its the truth.

What would be the pain he responds to now that you have kicked him out? The pain of losing someone he has hurt and wishes to love like he should have all these years? Or the pain of losing something he has become accustomed to as his right and possession? In what direction will his efforts at recovery be motivated to recover? What is the value he puts on you?

What kind of love do you want from him? Expect the best.

Hiya Constant

Thanks for checking in.



Yes I think your right, how sad is that, I slept with him because I wanted him to show love towards me and to keep the peace.

Its like I have seen this complete other side to him and it is awful.

I really don't think he is going to do anything else now, maybe that is hope rather than crystal ball..I am sure the next stage of punishment he will try to do is the flaunting of other women ect...I know what your saying though I need to be very careful. I think by changing the locks and the fact that I have informed the police is really to my strength. I can't see any other way he could attack me, I can just walk away from his abuse, and I am not doing anything to wind him up just keeping a low profile.

It was partly my fault on Saturday night, I should have just walked away when he came home that night and gone and stayed at a friends. His truck was blocking my car in when he was trying to intimidate me, so the last thing he is going to do is let me out. I could have left once he calmed down though.

I do take it seriously though, and he can't get in the house when I am there and I am not going to places where he might be.


Yes it is early days in the recovery process and I do get withdrawal symptons but at the moment, they are manageable. I do have that feeling sometimes in the morning and wake up and wonder where he is, how he is ect...

The reason I love Plan B is it allows you to go dark and not know what they are upto.

I am trying not to dwell on it but I think he is living with the girl from the golf club. That sometimes twists me, but I suppose he is just using her. I think she was besotted with my H, and one night when he went missing (on purpose to worry me), she actually text me to ask where he was as she was worried about him. She must be just stupid. What about all those nights when my H had not come home and he was with her? Jeez i think OW are stupid, they seem to forget how long you have actually been with your H. Like I said, I am not going to get hung up about that. Incidently when my H went 'missing'it was the night before I started my new job, I was going out of my mind with worry. When he came home he said that he was pleased that I was worried about him, when I told him the OW had text me and was worried about him too, he laughed.

I just think he is really angry at my affair and thats what all this is about. Also, he said its not just about the A, its how things were before. He said that I aways said to him that something just does not feel right, which I did. My fault is that I didn't know then what was not right but looking back it was lack of intimacy, ability to discuss 'issues', lack of time spent together and lack of empathy/understanding. Therefore, I think he is looking for someone who will just accept him the way he is and not challenge him and just spend 100% their time doing things for him. Sometimes I thought he liked the fact that I challenged him, wanted him to be a better person ect..

On top of all of this, after he has treated me so bad, 4 affairs (that I know of), hit me, called me names and enjoyed seeing me suffer, I can't really get my head round the fact that there is still some hope left on me.

If it was a friend, by now I would have told her to ditch the bum and never look back. I want to get into this place where I am so strong and clear. I suppose I am quite a forgiving person and do not think in black and white terms, and think everyone makes mistakes. I look at his A and I don't think for a minute he wanted to be in that position, he would rather have been with me moving on in our married life and happy in our home.

I just think HIM and his background has led to this reaction, I know I didn't deserve a second chance, and now I don;t know if I want one. He probably knows deep down he could never give me what I need, so maybe is using a self destructive way to end the marriage.

All I know is that, how could I still love and care about someone who has treated me so poorly? I want to get him out of my system and fast.

Hi Tom

Good to hear from you.

I am really sorry that you are in pain and your wife is potentially seriously ill. I really do feel for you. To have such a long happy marriage with someone and see them like this, must be awful.



I can't believe you would think like that! Obviously I am 34 and do not know but by the sounds of it, its not something you should worry about now....:)

Your wife is very lucky to have you care and support her. I suppose thats all I really want.

Its not that easy to find these days and I think you made the comment on my old thread about younger guys today. There are not many around, but maybe I am just a bit tarnished at the moment

Believe me Tom, I have been direct with my H many times, but sometimes I just think, do I really want to fight for a man who wants to be able to walk into another womans arms when he likes? What is there worth fighting for?

Sometimes I look at the MB concepts of these people that sit and wait for a long time in Plan B, and sometimes I just think god if I am with someone and they really want to be with someone else, let them get on with it. I suppose thats the way I have been brought up. I can see some sense in a long Plan B if you have a family and a history of a long marriage. I do admire those who can do that. I know for my H it is a case of whatever OW comes along, rather than falling hard and fast for someone specific. I don;t know how I would feel about that.

Things are hard, and letting go of someone I love, is really hard. I could have him in the house with me, but at what cost? Contacting other women? Punishing me? Ignoring my calls? Booking holidays alone? No thanks.

Anyway, thinking of you Tom and I hope the news is better than your expecting next week in regards to your wife.

All the best.

Harmony.

First of all, I am not convinced he was a totally devoted Hubby and did not entertain or even have an A on you before your A.. At least in his mind he felt he had a right to.


Which leads into the next thing, what in the world for? What was he not happy with you about? Really, wake up. he has allways thought he was doing you a favor, that he was Gods gift and except for a few problems in his life....boo-hooo.. he would be perfect.

And you were a problem, and are still to him, but he owns you.

Please can I get an Amen on this from someone? Harmony needs to know how deep the problem goes, before she gets taken in again by this guy. Sorry Harmony, IMO your H has a major problem and has sold it to you that its your fault. You did him a favor when you had the A in his mind cuz now the deal is sealed, he can abuse you at will, youv'e proven all the problems came from you, he is absovled..

The fox has scared the chicken from the coop, then convinced it that it was so stupid to leave it. just give up, its all your fault, I am just doing what I allways have and its my nature, The fox is a crafty predator, and you are a flightless bird.

This has been brewing a long time Harmony, I am not advocating your affair, but it was better than stabbing the idiot, which , BTW, he would have turned around to benifet him also. He is a wolf in sheeps clothing, interested in himself but playing the good guy when it benifets him. Can you find any time in your marriage he did something for you that he didn't want credit for? Something sweet behind your back that might have cost him some of his image?

Brewing for a long time, it was and is his responsiblity to care for you above anyone else, you are not supposed to teach it, and he doesn't want to learn it. You have been worn down by this behavior until you reacted out of frustrtion and emotion, stupid and nasty self-destructive crap those affairs. You knew that almost imediatly, he still feels justified. He wont even take advice from professinals, what is he special? He wishes he were, and as long as there are doe-eyed gals he can sell himself to, those that want to believe he is what he says he is, he will probably stay that way. I don't see him coming to a point of change for himself for quite a while. Lets face it, some never do.

I am just frustrated that you don't see who he is yet. I think it is nessesary for a full recovery. I know if he ia capable of love the capacity is not in him yet, and maybe it never was, it was just an idea he sold and went along with for how do we say it "The dumb broads" or "The suckers". He is not gonna change unless the light gets shoved up his butt, and it will have to be painful in places he doesn't even know yet. Maybe plan B will wake him up, but to me it is more important that you wake up and start loving and respecting yourself. He is not even in the game yet.

Again of course he can change, of course you are worth it to recover your marrige, of course you are still giving him credit as he draws from the love bank. Don't let it drain you dry and become emotionally bankrupt. Know what has happened to you, protect yourself from furthur damage as the damage you are carrying around is revealed to you in time, counsel, therapy, him not being around. When you see the whole picture, you might be so repuled and afraid of being around him you might choose not to reconcile, but at least then you will have a chance of recovery and a good marriage with someone that loves you, if he ever thinks its in his best interest.

Your worth it, don't let the buggers get you down.


Hope you have a safe and positive weekend Harmony

You got one "Amen".

Harmony, you just think this is miserable. Take your H back before he has done the work, and let me tell you honey, you will look back on these as really, really good days.

And do try to post once a day over the weekend for the worrying hand-wringing types amongst us.

Brb Gotta go get some hand lotion...

I don't see it that way, so please don't say that. I don't think you got a fighting first chance..

Im not convinced of that either. I think it would be the IB and disrespect of you and your needs if anything that would have been continued and if you did not comply, he would have a fit. Sorry.