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I don't want y'all to misunderstand anything I said - any "deadlines" right now are for me and only me - JC recommended a 6-month Plan A and then told me I'd need to reassess, because she said it would be difficult if not impossible to Plan A forever. And I don't know what decision I will make. She said I've got 3 options if DH is unwilling or uninterested in MB - an indefinite Plan A, "live with it," or Plan B. I don't want to give up, but I do want us to work together in recovery. Recovery is my ultimate goal. No, I am not giving him any ultimatums now. JC said it is about encouraging him to work MB together and trying to do that in such a way that I'm not DJ-ing him if he sees it as "educating" him.

He hasn't straight out asked for a poly either. I set it up, I am paying for it and I scheduled it - because I can't think of another way to address the doubts that he has, the doubts that I caused him to have by trickle-truthing him. And I want to do everything I can possibly do.

Originally Posted by shaken
Think about Friday night and why your BH got out of bed.


I wish I could figure it out. If I'm too eager for SF, it's a trigger. If I'm not responsive, it's a trigger. I wasn't hesitant in bed b/c I didn't want him...I'm hesitant b/c I'm scared to go either way. Part of it is fear of hurting him with whatever I do, but the other part is a selfish fear of rejection, and that is something that I have to push aside. Perfect love casts out fear and all that...we're human and can't be "perfect" but we can strive to do so. Anyway here's the email I sent him yesterday, after he got out of bed the night before:

Originally Posted by
Something's been on my mind all day and I figured you wouldn't want to get into it when I was home at lunch - I probably was making a disrespectful judgment by assuming you didn't want to talk about it, and if I was, I apologize...I was enjoying being with you last night. To be honest, you sort of suprised me because we haven't been intimate together in a while. I guess I was nervous and a little unsure of what you wanted, I was afraid of making you feel uncomfortable or pressuring you to do something you did not want to do. I'm so scared of doing the wrong thing with you. When you got up, I first thought you were going to shut the door, then I thought maybe you'd gone to turn the A/C back on since I'd turned it off last night, but then you didn't come back to bed. I should have gone to find you but I just kept hoping you would come back. Then when you did come back you didn't seem interested in picking up where we'd left off. I thought maybe I had done something wrong, that was why I asked you why you'd gotten up this morning.

All day yesterday I felt hurt over the text you sent me. Not just my own hurt, but I ached for the pain you are feeling. All I wanted to do was come home and see you, and be with you, and somehow try to minister to the pain you felt. And then when I got home yesterday, for an instant before I got out of the truck I saw you talking to Mom & Dad and you seemed animated and relaxed, and then as I got out of the truck it was like a wall slammed down and I literally watched you close off. So when I went to bed last night, I was feeling down and more than a little hopeless.

I want to be with you. If I seem to hold back sometimes, it is because I am waiting to get a signal of what you want. I'm scared, DH. I feel like I've done so many things wrong - and here I'm not talking about the obvious, I'm talking about during this recovery process. I screwed up so many times. I shouldn't let fear hold me back and I am sorry I allow myself to doubt myself so much that I am afraid.

I just felt like I needed to tell you. I think that lately I have not been good at letting you know my feelings. I'm afraid to ever let you see me being less than positive and optimistic. I want to communicate with you. I want to know what you are feeling. I don't care how raw and ugly the emotion is, I just want to know. And it's time I did better about letting you know how I feel, too. I started writing in a journal plus in the notebook I made for the Respect Dare. I want you to know that you can read anything I write, anytime. And if you ever have questions or want to talk about anything I have written, then please ask me and let's talk about it.

More than anything I want a passionate, romantic marriage with you. I want us to build our new marriage together. I choose you. Every day. I'm in love with you, DH.

I tried to make "I" statements and not "you," tried to avoid anything that would be a LB, and just tried to be honest about how I am feeling. I might have pushed it a little saying how I saw his wall come down when I got home - maybe I shouldn't have said that or should have phrased it differently, I don't know.

Today has been better. We had a nice time together yesterday and today he's been talkative and seems more open, and more importantly I've seen him smile. smile We have plans with this kids this afternoon and then grocery shopping, and I need to get the ingredients for a butterfinger cheesecake I promised him (yum!).


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That was a very heart warming email. It addressed your feelings and you didn't make him feel responsible for your holding back. You let him know you were just afraid of doing the wrong thing.

The wall thing was kind of a DJ, but at least he knows why you were apprehensive.

I think you are doing well. Your BH is just still so hurt and it takes time.

Best Wishes

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Originally Posted by seekingbalance
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Dr Harley's stance on this is that once all the facts have been given about the affair, that it should NEVER be brought up again.

I believe what I suggested is in line with MB principles. If JC has told WP something different, she should follow JC.

My point is that the facts are not known to the BH. He got trickle-truthed for however many months, and has no way of knowing if he knows "everything" or if there is another shoe waiting to drop when he lets his guard down again.

WPG, I think you're absolutely doing the right thing, I hope it goes well for you, and I hope it gives your BH some peace of mind.


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Baby steps! Yay!

You'll see the light, WPG! Keep at it.


If there is anything I am learning, it is you have to make sure to get your time in.

How many times have we all heard that?

Get your 15+ hours of UA time in! Get your 15+ hours of UA time in! Get your 15+ hours of UA time in! Get your 15+ hours of UA time in! Get your 15+ hours of UA time in! Get your 15+ hours of UA time in! Get your 15+ hours of UA time in! Get your 15+ hours of UA time in! Get your 15+ hours of UA time in! Get your 15+ hours of UA time in! Get your 15+ hours of UA time in! Get your 15+ hours of UA time in! Get your 15+ hours of UA time in! Get your 15+ hours of UA time in! Get your 15+ hours of UA time in! Get your 15+ hours of UA time in! Get your 15+ hours of UA time in! Get your 15+ hours of UA time in! Get your 15+ hours of UA time in! Get your 15+ hours of UA time in!


All it takes is just 1 missed day for me, and I start circling the drain. I've done it TWICE over the last week.

That's just from missing one day's worth of UA time! And it's not like we were apart, either. We were shopping, carving pumpkins with the kids, had a horror movie night.

We were having a good time, but when we do not get that UA time in... the first time I leave home for school or work, the resentment, pain, and anger start bubbling up.

Get that time in!

Good luck!


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Hi all...I went today for my poly. Anyway, long story short, I passed. I had a list of issues and DH added more. The examiner worked to combine the issues into questions - for example, DH had wondered whether or not I met OM while he was on a business trip, and also when he took the girls to the beach. She combined it into asking had I had physical contact with OM anytime DH had been out of town.

He wanted to know if OM was bigger and if I had an orgasm. She explained why she wasn't going to ask those and I asked her to please explain to DH why she didn't ask them so it was not coming from me. I'd given him the examiner's contact info prior to setting up the test so he could have called her and asked about specific questions and how the tests are conducted - I asked the examiner today if she'd talked to him at all prior to the test and she said no.

I have not told DH about passing the test. He didn't come with me. He asked me yesterday "what do you want me to do?" and yesterday I said "I don't know." Today I emailed him and said he needed to do what he felt that he needed - come or not come, I felt like if he believed that he needed to come then he could be there, he knew time/place. I took my mother with me just so I didn't have to go alone and I could have some moral support.

It was nervewracking, even though I was telling the truth. The funny thing is, I don't feel any better after it. I feel just the same anxiety that I have been feeling. I don't think it will be some kind of "magic switch" for our relationship. But I've done it.

HHH, totally agree with you about the UA time. When DH does something, even something small, that shows he is trying to meet my needs it does all sorts of wonderful things to me! The weekend was overall nice, we spent time together Friday. Saturday we kind of rushed around and time together was with the kids. Yesterday we went to church and took the kids trick-or-treating. I bought a costume myself and tried to interest DH in a little...uhm...role playing last night but he turned me down.

Right now I'm drained from the afternoon. I should have gone back home but I just didn't want to. I came back to the office. I want the examiner to be the one to tell DH about the results, not me. She's supposed to call him today, I'm hoping she went ahead and called him when we left.

This is going to come out sounding self-centered, but I just want to feel better. I want DH to take me in his arms and hold me and tell me that now he believes me and that he's ready to start working on recovery in earnest.


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WPG,

Good thing you took the test, however I think you made a few tactical mistakes.

1) not hiring a old MALE law enforcement experienced tester.

2) not asking the really important questions the answers to which should be Yes/No

God Bless
Gamma

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Gamma, the tester is former ALE in our state (Alchohol Law Enforcement) and went through training with that agency and worked with them as an examiner prior to striking out on her own. What difference does it make whether the person is male or female? I've worked in the criminal justice field ever since coming out of college and I see just as many capable females as males.

I presented her with the entire list of questions and issues that I had including the ones that DH requested. She formulated the questions based on her knowledge and for each question she asked it was a yes/no answer. e.g., "Did you have sex with [OM] more than 2 times during your entire relationship with [DH]?" "Did you have sex (defined as intercourse, oral, etc) on any of your (mine or DH's) property (property being house, vehicles, furniture, the yard, bicycles, whatever)?"

Polygraph examinations aren't like what you see on TV. Even working in the CJ field for as long as I have, this was the first time I'd ever taken one, and I'd never even seen one in real life. I was expecting the box with the needles scratching on paper, but it is all computers now. They aren't like TV where you see people answering question after question and being grilled - the interviewer asks a series of control questions, some of which you tell the truth to and some you are asked to lie to so that the computer can gauge your responses. There are only a couple of the so-called "relevant" questions on each test. And everything must be answered yes/no and the terms in the questions are agreed upon just as above (what constitutes sex? what constitutes property?).


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WPG,

I thought orgasm or not is a YES/NO question. If my W came back with that I would have suspected collusion.

When I took my poly. I don't think I could have evaded a question that definite.

God Bless
Gamma


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It doesn't sound like WPG was evading the questions. It sounds more like the poly examiner didn't want to ask:

Originally Posted by wulffpack_girl
She explained why she wasn't going to ask those and I asked her to please explain to DH

WPG, can you tell us why the examiner declined to ask those questions? They do seem like straightforward yes-or-no questions.

Last edited by bitbucket; 11/01/10 05:28 PM.

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Gamma, there were several issues that could not be combined and would have needed additional tests. Each test consists of two questions that deal with one issue. We began with verifying that NC is in place, the # of times I had sex with OM, then the out-of-town and property questions as stated in my earlier posts. All 4 of those questions combined several related issues. The examiner I saw does not do more than 2 tests in one day for one person - in fact, she recommended only one as they are stressful even if you are telling the truth. Those are the things I wanted her to explain to my DH. I didn't evade anything. That is for DH to decide now. Other than continuing my progress in the Respect Dare and continuing to Plan A, which includes meeting DH's EN's and avoiding LBs, sticking to my EPs and so on, I do not know what else I can do to prove my truthfulness. And DH is the one who has to make a decision on that matter.

It's been a long day and I'm getting all worked up over this now so I need to step back, because I'm running the risk of LB'ing my DH this evening.


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bitbucket, please see my last response - that clarifies the reasons why the examiner did not ask those questions.


FWW

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WP -- remember your LB is taking withdrawals whether you are aware of it or not. I'm guessing the polygraph was a pretty whopping big withdrawal.

Now that he has all the information, please set a boundary on how long you are willing to talk about the A, then enforce it.

It is impossible to create intimacy with someone who is throwing A bombs at you willy nilly with no warning or apparent good reason that I can figure out except to keep you on edge and inflict pain.

There are other ways for your H to communicate his feelings besides texting you about relative size in the middle of a work day. He could text you "I'm feeling insecure". The feelings can be addressed without reference to the details of the A.

Gamma, I don't see how it is helpful to offer WP an after the fact criticism of the process the professional WP hired to conduct it believed was the correct process. After such an ordeal, hearing that she did it wrong in your opinion does nothing but feed her already consuming fear that whatever she does will never be enough. The goal here is to support, not undermine.

WP, if your H chooses not to believe the polygraph for any reason, remember that's his choice. And it is a choice.

I'm finding the fact that this thread has this focus after so long sort of sickening, so I'm going to bow out now, but WP you will be in my thoughts and prayers -- as a WW who has tried to implement MB principles unilaterally, I feel your pain.

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Originally Posted by seekingbalance
WP -- remember your LB is taking withdrawals whether you are aware of it or not. I'm guessing the polygraph was a pretty whopping big withdrawal.

You are right - I didn't even think about it that way. I went back to work after because I was all keyed up and didn't want to come home, and I could not figure out why I was so angry. I didn't know whether it was at me, or DH, or what - I was just MAD. Then I got home and I asked him if he talked to the examiner and he said yes, we talked a little bit and he said, "Why are you so worked up?" Now I am thinking, oh, OK...duh. I mean, I feel like it was something I had to do, but d@mn it was draining.

Originally Posted by seekingbalance
WP, if your H chooses not to believe the polygraph for any reason, remember that's his choice. And it is a choice.

I know. I just feel so powerless. I am still in love with DH and it's killing me.

Originally Posted by seekingbalance
I'm finding the fact that this thread has this focus after so long sort of sickening, so I'm going to bow out now, but WP you will be in my thoughts and prayers -- as a WW who has tried to implement MB principles unilaterally, I feel your pain.


seeking, thank you for your support - I do appreciate it.


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Originally Posted by seekingbalance
Now that he has all the information, please set a boundary on how long you are willing to talk about the A, then enforce it.

doh2

Should she then proceed on to setting a boundary on the pace and time frame for recovery?

"All the information" is something that has to be decided by him.

That is up to HIM, and it is a hurdle that must be cleared. It hasn't been, and that is why they are where they are this long in.


WPG, I get you. I really do. Last time I tried to let OMGF know what had happened, just the attempt, just dialing her number, or seeing it come up when she called me back, DESTROYED me all over again.

But, it had to be done. It was a hurdle that I had to clear. I don't regret it, and it no longer eats at me.

Your work and dedication to recovery, and to commit to doing whatever it takes to recover is undeniably admirable. As is the fact that you wholly own your responsibility for the choices and actions that lead to this moment.

The last conversation FWW and I had about the A, that is what occurred - ownership of the decisions and actions.

Maybe it wasn't MB-based. Probably not recommended. Maybe wouldn't work for everybody. But we had gone over it over until this last conversation. Now I do not feel like talking about it any more. There is nothing more for me to say, nothing left to ask. And that is a relief that I cannot explain.

Want to add; I am also noticing that if we miss UA time and I start to spiral, it takes more time in than time missed to get me back up again. Keep that in mind for both of you.


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WP,

Congratulations on taking the Poly. Although he might not admit it now, I am sure that having a few of your answers substantiated has helped him.

I will tell you that I reamed your H big time on his thread for not being honest with you about his feelings. IN fact I called him a liar, and he has been in that regard.

why am I telling you this? Because it is imperative that you quit second guessing yourself and start being honest with your H. When you need a hug from him, ask for it. When you fear things talk with him about YOUR fears, and seek his help or advice. He does not have to solve your problems but it is best to keep him in the loop.

Don't you see the pattern here? He was closed to you for years. I call this lying by omission. You had an affair, and lied to him by omission and just flat out lied. Worse you lied to yourself. He was open with you during FR and it helped you tremendously, but unfortunately you were still lying to him.

He then closed himself off again, and won't tell you why he does things like the bedroom incident. You meanwhile are trying to do the right thing, which means you are holding back on him. You need his help, you need him in your life, you fear something, you want to help, you want to talk about what you learned, YOU MUST OPEN UP AND BE HONEST. You have not been by the same standard I applied to him.

Have you realized that the history of your marriage is withholding information? Have you realized that a new marriage requires that you SHARE information.

I know he is hurt, and I know his trust level isn't high, but frankly neither is yours. You don't trust him much thus you constantly second guess what you should say or not say.

I am not saying blurt out anything that comes to mind, but I am saying if you expect him to communicate with you, do the same with him.

I say trust he will do the best he can, so make sure he has the best information possible...be open and honest. Seek his help, seek his advice, seek his comfort and show him that he is needed.

Finally, this issue of the OM's size. I suspect that size was not the issue, but focusing on it is a marker for his deeper fears. What are they? Simple, he fears he has never satisfied you and he never will. His trust in himself has been destroyed and it must be rebuilt. Know what might help? You being more demanding in bed. Tell him what you want, how you want it, where you want it, and then make sure he knows if and when he satisfies you. I know this sounds backwards, but trust me, us guys want to know when we satisfy our W's and we don't need lies. We need guidance if we are not getting it done.

My guess you were more open with OM, because deep down you didn't care what he thought. You worry what your H would think of you if you wanted something a bit...different. Yet, if you were to ask, showed/explained how you wanted it and it was successful, it is one more demonstration that he could satisfy you.

As they say in many sports, sometimes the best defense is a good offense. Think about this.

God Bless,

JL

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Originally Posted by Just Learning
Finally, this issue of the OM's size. I suspect that size was not the issue, but focusing on it is a marker for his deeper fears. What are they? Simple, he fears he has never satisfied you and he never will. His trust in himself has been destroyed and it must be rebuilt. Know what might help? You being more demanding in bed. Tell him what you want, how you want it, where you want it, and then make sure he knows if and when he satisfies you. I know this sounds backwards, but trust me, us guys want to know when we satisfy our W's and we don't need lies. We need guidance if we are not getting it done.

clap clap clap clap clap clap clap


I forgot about something; this episode Friday night. Has anything like that occurred prior to the A? Ask him.

I went through exactly that scenario, over and over, for years prior to closing myself off.

Same guilt; dishonesty by omission.




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WP � I hesitate to speak after JL as anyone would � since I read whatever he says, I found myself back on your thread.

I don�t know who your H is so I haven�t read his thread.

I try REALLY hard not to project my personal situation on my posts to others. REALLY hard. I�m probably crossing that line with this post, but I�m going to say it anyway.

Know reading what I am about to say that if my H asked me to take a polygraph on the details of my relationship with OM, my response would have been an immediate and unequivocal �shall we have one lawyer or two � I�ve been researching collaborative divorce, and I think we can do that.�

Why? Because I recognize that if he were to put me through that as a condition for reconciliation, I would hate him so much there would be zero hope of building a healthy marriage. Given that he already hated me for having an A, I would simply end it there.

I don�t know if DrH has weighed in on the utility of polygraphs in infidelity, but in my opinion they have only one legitimate use: is the affair over?

There is a level of humiliation below which I absolutely refuse to fall. Taking a polygraph is at least 5 degrees below that level. Actually, it doesn�t even have a level it is so far off what I would do. That�s me. I tell you that so you can weigh what I am saying appropriately.

I have to ask you this. Do you REALLY want to be married for the rest of your life to a man who:

1. Will not commit to a marriage recovery program.
2. Will not let your A go and evidently brings it up at whatever time he wants in whatever way he wants with wanton disregard of how that might impact you in that moment.
3. Sends you A bombs in the middle of your work day 10 months out, thereby demonstrating zero understanding of your emotional state and vulnerability.
4. Sort of maybe kind of wants you to take a polygraph where you will be questioned about intimate humiliating details of your life.
5. Won�t commit to accepting the results of that polygraph as dispositive.
6. Doesn�t go with you to the polygraph, thereby reserving the right to question the whole process.
7. Doesn�t go with you to the polygraph to ensure that the exact questions he wants answered are asked and answered in a form and way he finds acceptable,
8. In my opinion, is obsessing to a grotesque and repellant degree on the physical details.
9. Puts you through that ordeal, which is solely for his benefit, without his presence to support you.
10. Reserves the right to question the results of the polygraph, and/or bring up the results and/or any details of the A at any time in the future he thinks he needs to �heal�.

How do you see your future with such a man (and at this point, I�m using that term loosely)? How do you envision your children�s future? What is going to be their �take-away� message about marriage from a father who does that and a mother who puts up with it?

There is a poster to your thread who is who are obsessing about the most intimate (�how wet did she get?") details his wife�s affairs twenty years after the A � is that where you are headed?

Really, what are you fighting for? From where I sit, it�s an illusion of what you wish your H was, but, based upon his passive/aggressive/punishment mode, never will be. He�s choosing that by the way. He doesn't want to get over it.

My M is not recovered. If it doesn�t, it will be because of what JL said, not because I was unwilling to endure X amount of humiliation or do Y amount of making amends. My M may not recover. But for sure I will.

I hate if for YOU that you took that polygraph as I fear you just gave your H another way demean you.

There seems to be this unspoken suggestion in this forum that a WS has to do whatever for however long. That simply isn�t the case, which is why DrH recommends that once the details of the A are disclosed, the subject is closed.

That doesn�t sit well with BS�s who are in the majority here. Many BS�s post vociferously about any limits on discussion of the A as the WS trying to �control the pace and scope of recovery�.

Never mentioning the A after the details are disclosed is the MB program, and DrH includes it for a reason: it matters to the WS, and it matters to the M.

The goal is recover the M, not serve the interests of the BS or the WS.

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And that is exactly how you exemplify the difference between remorseful, and resentful.

Not serving the interest of your spouse is how an A happens, how an A continues, and how an A repeats.

This does not mean that you solely serve the interest of your spouse, but it should be considered, and done so strongly. If it is too much to consider your spouse, maybe you should consider not having one.


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Originally Posted by seekingbalance
WP � I hesitate to speak after JL as anyone would � since I read whatever he says, I found myself back on your thread.

I don�t know who your H is so I haven�t read his thread.

I try REALLY hard not to project my personal situation on my posts to others. REALLY hard. I�m probably crossing that line with this post, but I�m going to say it anyway. You didn't try at all in this case, Seekingbalance. Your post sprinkles in a couple of valid points that were a challenge to extract from the great, goopy gobs of projection. Some of us who know what recovering marriages look like from the inside are trying to help WPG get there.

Know reading what I am about to say that if my H asked me to take a polygraph on the details of my relationship with OM, my response would have been an immediate and unequivocal �shall we have one lawyer or two � I�ve been researching collaborative divorce, and I think we can do that.�WPG doesn't need ANY lawyers to recover her marriage. Because of her unique history of dishonesty for many months after D-Day#1, she carries an extra burden of reassuring him as to what the true story is. It is excellent & altogether reasonable that she take a polygraph, and she should not be made to feel bad in the least for having done so.

Why? Because I recognize that if he were to put me through that as a condition for reconciliation, I would hate him so much there would be zero hope of building a healthy marriage. Given that he already hated me for having an A, I would simply end it there. No thanks for the projection. Let's stick with MarriageBuilders here.

I don�t know if DrH has weighed in on the utility of polygraphs in infidelity, but in my opinion they have only one legitimate use: is the affair over? Thank you for your opinion. My opinion is that a polygraph might also be of use in giving some confidence to WPG's BH about the veracity of events as WPG has described them.

There is a level of humiliation below which I absolutely refuse to fall. Taking a polygraph is at least 5 degrees below that level. Actually, it doesn�t even have a level it is so far off what I would do. That�s me. I tell you that so you can weigh what I am saying appropriately. Seekingbalance, on your very first day here under your original screen-name, I posted the following: "Humility. If you want to give your marriage a fair shake, you need to ooze with it. Your words indicate that you do not." Regrettably, it appears this is still true 4 months later.

As a guy, I can tell you, it'd be pretty humiliating to have your wife boff another guy, crow to him about how he's bigger & better, and lie to you about key aspects of the affair for months afterwards even after you've gone all-out after D-Day#1 to take her back. That's humiliation. Volunteering to take a polygraph to try to assuage some of his fears to help him heal? That's merely humility.


I have to ask you this. Do you REALLY want to be married for the rest of your life to a man who:

1. Will not commit to a marriage recovery program. How do YOU know what WPG's husband WILL do? All we know is what he HAS done, counselor. Assuming you have not obtained special powers of clairvoyance not characteristic of homo sapiens, all else is mere speculation.
2. Will not let your A go and evidently brings it up at whatever time he wants in whatever way he wants with wanton disregard of how that might impact you in that moment.Point taken. The guy's been lied to for a long period of time. He's hurt. It is altogether proper for WPG to cut him some slack in this respect.
3. Sends you A bombs in the middle of your work day 10 months out, thereby demonstrating zero understanding of your emotional state and vulnerability. 10 months after D-Day#2 and over a year after D-Day #1, despite lies upon lies, he's stuck around. He's been a provider for WPG and a dad to their kids, and he's here on the boards trying to hack his way through to making sense of what's happened to him, and how he can avoid having his life go the same way his parents' life went. Again, he gets some slack on these grounds.
4. Sort of maybe kind of wants you to take a polygraph where you will be questioned about intimate humiliating details of your life. WPG offered. It wasn't his idea.
5. Won�t commit to accepting the results of that polygraph as dispositive. How'll you feel next Tuesday, counselor? Or at any time in the future? Can you tell us? How can we know today if what you say you'll feel is actually what you'll feel?
6. Doesn�t go with you to the polygraph, thereby reserving the right to question the whole process. Could he not have reserved that right even if he had gone with her?
7. Doesn�t go with you to the polygraph to ensure that the exact questions he wants answered are asked and answered in a form and way he finds acceptable, It was his right not to sit through WPG's polygraph.
8. In my opinion, is obsessing to a grotesque and repellant degree on the physical details. Seekingbalance, if your husband cheated on you, and told the other woman that her **** didn't stink like yours, and then continued to lie about the extent of the affair for months afterward, I submit that you or anyone might get hung up on physical details for a spell.
9. Puts you through that ordeal, which is solely for his benefit, without his presence to support you. Again, WPG volunteered.
10. Reserves the right to question the results of the polygraph, and/or bring up the results and/or any details of the A at any time in the future he thinks he needs to �heal�.

How do you see your future with such a man (and at this point, I�m using that term loosely)? An ad hominem attack is uncalled for here. How do you envision your children�s future? What is going to be their �take-away� message about marriage from a father who does that and a mother who puts up with it?

There is a poster to your thread who is who are obsessing about the most intimate (�how wet did she get?") details his wife�s affairs twenty years after the A � is that where you are headed? At some point, it may become a valid question. But a year & a half is a far cry from 20 years.

Really, what are you fighting for? From where I sit, it�s an illusion of what you wish your H was, but, based upon his passive/aggressive/punishment mode, never will be. He�s choosing that by the way. He doesn't want to get over it. Never will be? Is that your clairvoyance talking again, Seekingbalance, or is it as disrespectful a judgement as ever there may be?

My M is not recovered. If it doesn�t, it will be because of what JL said, not because I was unwilling to endure X amount of humiliation or do Y amount of making amends. My M may not recover. But for sure I will.

I hate if for YOU that you took that polygraph as I fear you just gave your H another way demean you. Love casts out fear, WPG. This you know.

There seems to be this unspoken suggestion in this forum that a WS has to do whatever for however long. That simply isn�t the case, which is why DrH recommends that once the details of the A are disclosed, the subject is closed.

That doesn�t sit well with BS�s who are in the majority here. Many BS�s post vociferously about any limits on discussion of the A as the WS trying to �control the pace and scope of recovery�.

Never mentioning the A after the details are disclosed is the MB program, and DrH includes it for a reason: it matters to the WS, and it matters to the M.

The goal is recover the M, not serve the interests of the BS or the WS.

WPG, of course, at anytime, you can throw in the towel, start keeping score on all the wrongs your husband has ever done you, and tally up enough of them to maybe make yourself feel just good enough about yourself for long enough to give up on trying to have the marriage you want. Yes, at some point, if your H doesn't back get on-board with the goal of making your marriage better than it ever was before, then you'll need to face that decision. My take is that this isn't the time, not yet. The Harley experience has been that in best-case scenarios (of which yours isn't one, due to the ongoing deception between D-Day#1 and D-Day#2), 2 years can be needed to get to a place where some people (by no means all) feel "recovered." For some, less, but for many others, it's a bit longer, and for some others, it can be a lot longer. Where do YOU want to be, say, 7 years from now? Will you be OK looking back on having quit at, say, a year after D-Day#2? Your H has a track-record of trying to work his way back to your marriage -- that's what he did after D-Day#1.

Kudos to you for taking the poly, WPG. As you know, it's no "magic bullet" - it's a step in the process. Hang in there. Care for each other, even in little ways. Care for him.


Me: FWH, 50
My BW: Trust_Will_Come, 52, tall, beautiful & heart of gold
DD23, DS19
EA-then-PA Oct'08-Jan'09
Broke it off & confessed to BW (after OW's H found out) Jan.7 2009
Married 25 years & counting.
Grateful for forgiveness. Working to be a better husband.
"I wear the chain I forged in life... I made it link by link, and yard by yard" ~Jacob Marley's ghost, A Christmas Carol
"Do it again & you're out on your [bum]." ~My BW, Jan.7 2009
Joined: Oct 2010
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Originally Posted by seekingbalance
1. Will not commit to a marriage recovery program.
2. Will not let your A go and evidently brings it up at whatever time he wants in whatever way he wants with wanton disregard of how that might impact you in that moment.
3. Sends you A bombs in the middle of your work day 10 months out, thereby demonstrating zero understanding of your emotional state and vulnerability.
4. Sort of maybe kind of wants you to take a polygraph where you will be questioned about intimate humiliating details of your life.
5. Won�t commit to accepting the results of that polygraph as dispositive.
6. Doesn�t go with you to the polygraph, thereby reserving the right to question the whole process.
7. Doesn�t go with you to the polygraph to ensure that the exact questions he wants answered are asked and answered in a form and way he finds acceptable,
8. In my opinion, is obsessing to a grotesque and repellant degree on the physical details.
9. Puts you through that ordeal, which is solely for his benefit, without his presence to support you.
10. Reserves the right to question the results of the polygraph, and/or bring up the results and/or any details of the A at any time in the future he thinks he needs to �heal."

1) You know this how? DJ
2)Typical foggy wayward statement "Oh, just let it go!" DJ
3) Not execusable - totally agreed. However, you have no idea of the vulnerability or emotional state of a betrayed spouse, nor does anything in this entire post display a willingness to even attempt to understand it. DJ
4) Sort of kind of maybe - agree. He waffled. Why? Because he feels the need to verify his trust, but is quite possibly put off by hurting his wife. DJ
5) You know this how? Right, you don't. DJ
6) He does? You know this how? DJ
7) You know this motive how? DJ
8) Again, no clue on what a BS goes through. DJ
9) Agree on presence for support. Solely for his benefit? Really? You know this how? DJ
10) Oh really? And you are certain this is the intention? You know this how? DJ

Thanks for playing "How not to MB your M and it's recovery! You are a grand prize winner!


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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