no 2x4's, NP. What you feel is perfectly normal. There's a finality in this for you and him. His stuff has been there for all this time, even though you've been separated. You were able to hold onto hope that there was a chance for R because he was living away from home for work related purposes. Now that he's moving in with her, the hope you held is dying quickly.

You feel torn because of his words and that last bit of remaining hope. I agree with others that this will be the beginning of Plan B, in the truer sense of the word. His stuff won't be there so you won't have a need to hold yourself back in contemplating your M and hoping for a chance for him to come to his senses.

having followed both of your threads, I think he is a very selfish, unforgiving man naturally. He wants to take the path of least resistance and do things his way.

Those alligator tears about his family were to manipulate you. He was hoping that you would back down and give him more time to cake eat. He wanted to remain the nice guy at the expense of you doing all the work in your marriage to keep him looking like a good guy.

if he truly wanted his family, all he had to do was say bye to an OW and be the decent hubby and father he should be. But nope, he refuses to do that and boo-hoo's about not having an intact family instead.

The feelings you have will fade sooner, than later, I suppose. W/o his stuff around, you'll move into your own life's groove much faster. He won't be on your mind as much because you'll be living with just you and your children in mind. He won't be in the picture anymore.

For your own peace of mind, though, stay dark. He's always going to send you mixed messages of interest in hooking back up because that's how he is. He doesn't want to face himself for the messed up person he is. If he can get some of your sympathy from you, in his mind, that lessens his degree of guilt. imo

Good advice, yeah sounds like she hit the nail on the head, he will use guilt to keep you doing all the heavy lifting and he wont be exposed and can look like the good guy. " She just is being impossible.. boo-hoo.." he is probably telling everybody that.

BTW did you do a total nuclear exposure on this? If nothing else it will help others know whats up so he will stop trying to do this. It will also cut off the cake he might be eating being the poor abused and misunderstood victim with others.

I will only have a 2x4 for you if you give in to your torn feelings at this point.

I mean really, I still have hope for your M, so why shouldn't you? Thing is, he knows what he needs to do to be a part of your life - dump the hoe. He's not ready to do that, which is why you need to cut his toxic behind out of your life until it happens.

When the A implodes, as it almost certainly will, and he begins to defog and sees with horror what he's done, then it's time to give some thought to whether you might want to R with him.

All along, through this whole thing, I have considered the biggest threat to the long-term chances of your M to be your $LB balance getting too low.

Most A's end. Most waywards come crawling back, eventually. If any BS has failed to protect their $LB from the cruelty that all WS's dish out, chances are much higher they'll be done, finished, kaput, by that point.

Late is better than never, and if you carefully guard your $LB from WH, by guarding yourself from his wayward dramas, you will still have your best chance to someday R your M, if you choose to do so, under the circumstances you now find yourself.

Don't beat yourself up for any past mistakes, or stress about the future. Protect yourself now, knowing and accepting that WH is not ready yet for R, and wait to see what happens as time goes by.

Most of the waywards who ended up never coming out of the fog, even after 5+years, turned out to have had a hidden history of serial adultery, addiction...SOMETHING that kept them locked into a wayward mind set where normal people would have eventually broken free.

Even in those worst-case scenarios, it only came to light after quite a bit of time.

NP, I know that you had made up your mind about a D. This is why we tried to get you to stay in Plan B for a while and wait. There is still some love in there for WH. Will it be enough? Not if you continue to interact with him. You need to go totally dark, put a time limit on your Plan B and move a step forward each day. Even if it is just a baby step at a time, you will be MILES away from where you are now and realize that you are going to be okay.

You don't need to make any decision on if you want to D or not right now. You just need to make a life for you without your WH. Take care of yourself and those kiddos.

Thanks guys. I honestly thought I was strong and final enough in my decision to D to see WH again. I guess I wasn't - and I know that him moving out his stuff really gave him a HUGE reality check. I asked him if he had told POSOW what he was feeling and he said no, but she seemed to sense it becuase she "kept asking." Good. Serves her right - even if we don't end up in R, I hope she constantly suffers from doubt and worry, and heartache, and everything else she put me through.

WH asked if I wanted to go for dinner next time he's in town to "talk" and I was considering it - see how much he mixes me up?? But you're right, I need to not see him. Let the A end FIRST.

I was wondering if what I had been feeling was just nostalgia and grief seeing his things leave. Maybe it is? But Neak, you're right, I do need to protect my $LB right now and just stay in plan B.

Feeling so mixed up. I am looking forward to him being gone so I can get my balance back again.

OH...and re the nuclear exposure. Told OW H. He couldn't believe what "scum" WH was, to do that to me and now to try to do it to OW. Told his mom (who, shockingly, had no idea he had even moved in with OW), and my family. My family doesn't get it at all - they are almost angry at me for still even considering wanting him back. My MIL refuses to even hear OW's name and she was just sickened that he had moved in with her. Apparently WH doesn't talk to his family about POSOW at all.

Well, of course not. You didn't think he'd bring his trash into the house did you?

HAHAHAHAHA That is GOOOOOOOOODDDD.

Rest assured NP. You will get your wish on this one. You see, they both have to live with the knowledge that the other is a cheater. And, you know the old saying....if they cheat with you then they will cheat on you. Gotta like how karma works.

This is a really horrible idea NP. I'm glad to see that you have apparently already realized that. Do not spend any more time with WH at all until he has ended the affair and can prove it to you.

This is exactly what contact with a wayturd will do to you. Get back into your dark plan B and you will feel better again in no time.

You really do sound great NP. You are so much stronger then you were before. Even when you have these little wobbles you seem to be able to analyze them after the fact and come to the right conclusions. You are doing great!

How are the precious little ones doing?

Look how much better you sound, you are thinking things through and coming up with the right answers yourself.....
Finding your balance again is what your focus should be, life itself has a way of working out problems, sometimes we have to do nothing to get good results.
Let it all play out like it will now............it's now time for fantasy to turn into reality.........good luck I say............Lies and cheating never come out with a good result.........you just sit back and watch.................
Stay dark and let him really feel what his choices have created for his life........
((hugs)))

It sounds like your WH needs a really good letter telling him exactly what it would take for you to consider recovery! To tell him that he needs to end contact with OW once and forever, to commit to a plan of recovery, to councel with MB, to create extraordinary precautions and a plan of protection for the marriage...

Ohhhh,wait....thats what a Plan B letter is!!

You don't need to meet with him -- you need to spell it all out in a letter, which will incidentally tell him that he is not to contact you until all conditions have been met.

Spoke with WH briefly this morning about him dropping of DD. He said it had been a "rough night" with lots of emotional drama and they had come close to pulling the plug on the relationship.

Sounds like the A is imploding. Only took three months of him being gone and TWO DAYS of moving in with her. I kind of feel like breaking out the popcorn to explode, like the end of a REALLY GOOD action movie where everything is bursting into flames.

I haven't said much to him about what WE are going to do. But I think a reiterated Plan B letter is in order. And I don't even know if I can guarantee a shot at R if he does it all ... I'm still dealing with all the emotional trauma he put ME through.

Feel much stronger this morning.

You ever watch Urkel? Remember that one episode where Laura broke up with some guy? Steve was saying, "Aww, it's okay..."

And when she turned, he was celebrating.


Anyway, my point is...try not to rub it in his face about the A imploding, but then you already knew that.

No rubbing needed. Since I broke the darkness of Plan B, have been (to his face) the most forgiving, generous, kindly, and fun person I know how to be.

It's best I go back to being dark right?

Yup! Darker than dark.

Yes, darker than dark for sure.

Be hopeful but don't get your hopes up, IYKWIM?

The implosion could be drawn out like taffy. It could be constant, go on for months, years. They could implode almost completely seeming then one may try to convince the other things are really gonna be okay to keep the A plodding along and every permeation in between.

Go dark. Have hope but no expectations and settle for nothing less than the WH agreeing to all conditions you stated.

And don't forget -- affairs closely resemble junior high romances -- break up/drama/reconcile/drama/break up/drama repeat repeat repeat.

And there is a reason he told you what he told you...
Get it?

If there really was a 'rough night' I wonder if he didn't manufacture some issue in order to have a 'rough night' with his POSOW. It sounds to me like he's conflicted.

However. However, you cannot allow him to pull you into this drama and cause you to engage in his conflict with himself. The next time he starts, daintily put your hand over your heart and gently say "Please, WH, please don't share this with me. It's difficult for me to have to listen to it."

PLAN B is a good plan for you right now.

Be careful here - this could be a lie that he's telling you so he can keep you dangling with a little crumb of hope that maybe sometime he might break up with the hobag and then start to consider thinking about coming back home . . .

"Coming close" is not the same as "dumping her azz cold and walking away". You should have no interest in his words but only his actions, and only then AFTER he's actually DONE something.