So, after my little argumentative encounter with some people on the boards, I was ready to throw my hands up and walk away.

"Screw it, I don't need this!"

A little unpleasantness, and I pick up my toys, and go home.

I've changed my mind.

This is, after all, the land of 2x4s, is it not?

So, let me lay some wood. I will start by addressing some things stated that irk me beyond belief;

"This isn't about what 'sets you off.'"

No? Ok, then poor word choice on my part. Future responses will contain a detailed and exact description of the issue I am taking up.

"This isn't your website."

Absolutely correct! What a wonderfully asinine approach to a "community!" This isn't YOUR website either, is it. This is a community. You know how to interact in a community, right? Do you tell your neighbor "this isn't your town!" when he raises a concern? Didn't think so.

"And you're pretty new to this site, yes? Consider absorbing the content a while longer..."

I don't care what a persons join date, or post count is. Yes, I know in the world of internet forums these things carry some weight. I know that time in equals respect earn, but again, do you go to your neighbor and say "You just moved into this neighborhood! Why don't you figure out who you are living with!!!!" instead of addressing his concern? Didn't think so.

Besides, this isn't rocket science. It IS psychology, but it's presented in a way for the masses to be understood easily. The website, is supplementary - not required for understanding. The books provide the bulk of the information to absorb, and the site provides other learning tools to expand on learning potential - with Q&A and the Radio broadcasts offering further supplement.




So, in a pat-on-the-back to myself, I realized what and how I was """"""""set off"""""""" - I am over my bitterness towards my FWW. I am over my bitterness towards WSs in general.

I know there was bitterness, because as I read the first few chapters in SAA - I couldn't help but to roll my eyes often. "I can't believe this, he's blaming this poor guy for his wife cheating!"

That sentiment is hugely diminished on the forums. A lot of this attitude is lost in SAA is lost in discussions in SAA and R.

I have hit a point where I am all of a sudden keen to that, and that vs what I am reading and understanding from the progenitor of this site is a conflict.

This is not due to a lack of good intentions. However, remember that; "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

Often times, it is because of the things listed in that huge disclaimer we all scroll past day after day to get to the meat-and-potatoes, are forgotten:


Good intentions abound. However;


Hmmmm... what's the significance here?

Experience, perspective, and opinion -----> NOT PROFESSIONALS.

Professionals are educated in a particular manner to collect, analyze, and verify data using rigid methods. They are trained in research and it's application. In the case of licensed professionals, they are also subject to continuing education and codes of ethics, standards, and conduct.

Part of the education and training received focuses on evidence based practice. Part of developing an attitude of evidence based practice, is identifying and eliminating personal bias whenever and wherever possible.

This is the basis which this very program is built upon. So not only have I "absorbed the information," I have taken my own time to dissect, analyze, and verify the information in comparison to other psychological theories.

MB provides an unparalleled toolbox for maintaining and/or recovering a marriage. The vets here are intimately knowledgeable of the tools in the kit. However, it seems some are keen to using the wrong tool for the job at times, or answering questions or concerns with information that is not in line with the question posed.

Look, I know you can pound nails with a pipe wrench. I know it works. But it's the wrong tool for the job.

I doubt this is the intention at any given time, only a poster knows the true intention of the response and information they provide.

Haven't taken the time to remember who has this in their sig, but it speaks volumes;

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

As an addendum;

"The evil that is in the world almost always comes of ignorance, and good intentions may do as much harm as malevolence if they lack understanding."

At this point, I have to apologize for one failing; I have failed to engage in respectful debate when I choose to debate.
And I vow to debate.

I do thank each and every person on this board for sharing their lives and experiences.

The freedom from bitterness I now have would not have been possible without the experiences shared here.

Why bother?

Because I BELIEVE in MB. I spent 2 months studying the material before I ever read the forums, and a few weeks reading the forums before I posted.

Contributing fills a Maslow's Heirarchy need; contributing to the world around me.

Contribution for the day; quit labeling!

The Misconception: Knowing a person�s history makes it easier to determine what sort of person they are.

The Truth: You jump to conclusions based on how representative a person seems to be of a preconceived character type.

Representativeness Heuristic

Professionally, this tells me that I take my patients seriously. When they tell me they are in pain, and that they need something to manage that pain, I do not analyze their history of requesting pain medication, or complaining of pain to say they are; a pill seeker, a whiner, a junkie.

Why is this? Because pain is a subjective experience, pain is "...whatever the experiencing person says it is, and exists whenever he says it does."(Margo McCaffrey)

This applies to emotional or psychological pain as well as physical pain.

How does this apply to MB?

Oh, no. I'm not going there. Think that one out on your own.

Works....

The Misconception: Your opinions are the result of years of rational, objective analysis.

The Truth: Your opinions are the result of years of paying attention to information which confirmed what you believed while ignoring information which challenged your preconceived notions.

Confirmation Bias

This one is hard to fight, but it happens all the time. Trying to be more aware of it is quite the challenge.

On these boards, the masters of confirmation bias have built not only an opinion, but a library of posts, links, and articles which they have no qualms about deploying in discussion, simply because; a) they believe their opinion is correct and they have the material to back it, b) nobody will correct them because they don't want to "step on toes."

By all means, step on toes. There are shades of gray in the world, for sure. So let's fight for the shades which fall on the side of right.

�The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it.�

- Francis Bacon

I can understand your frustration HHH. But be careful. That's all I can say.

Frustration only goes so far when you try to maintain a minimum respect from person to person.

I, nor anyone else, is infallible when it comes to frustration. I simply took a misstep and communicated improperly.

In line with why we are here, isn't it? To learn to communicate better?

It was? Why?

I know why, my own bad choice; I quoted your post. So, instead of my intention of addressing an overall negative tone and direction, and instead of my intention to not offend, it was a useless argument that offended everyone.

Now, I'll go back to my point; it was based off of the experience, perspective, and opinion of people who are not professionals.

What did I say out of the box? "You need a professional, get professional help!"

The collected "experience, perspective, and opinion" in that particular thread started with 3 or 4 pages of people telling that woman how horrible her husband was, and exactly why and how he is horrible, how he will never stop being horrible... etc, etc, etc...


REALLY?

So, we back that up with: "We are not marriage at all costs..."

Fantastic! As no one should be! However, KNOW that whatever the "cost" is, is individualized to each an every individual person. Only an individual can determine the "costs" they are willing to endure, and a statement of "at all costs" is absolutely vague.

What is the "cost" limit then? Why is that?

So, when people project their "cost" onto someone like that, when they project their "boundaries" onto someone else, yeah, I get upset. More so if it is a "vet" or "Heavy Hitter" - they have been around long enough to see M's recover from unbelievable hells. Some have recovered their own M, and payed "costs" others couldn't imagine.

I can't imagine paying more than the "cost" I have in my own marriage. I fully admire those that have.

So, yeah. I "got set off," I "went off," I'm still "going off" because my "experience, perspective, and opinion" leads me to perceiving MB principals being used to talk someone out of wanting recovery.

That DOES make me want to puke.

If that makes me a black sheep, if that gets me banned, if that makes me unpopular, I could really care less.

I BELIEVE in this, I HAVE to believe in this, because right now, and hopefully forever, it is saving MY M, and here I see that it has done it for so many others.


Am I clear? Or am I just an A-hole? You decide.

Flork.


I missed this post.

Unfortunately, the rant ended up with a target... and I didn't want to... I hope it's clear that it's not any particular person.

I'm a debater, and a fighter... but I really try to keep it civil and clean...

Thanks guys, now I really feel like an [censored]...

No worries.
Feelings are temporary.

PS

It's a good idea to post any future rants separate from another member's thread.
(like you did here)

Just a suggestion

Are you an MD?
A PhD?
A dentist?
An RN?
A PA?

I am a (retired) RNP with pain clinic experience. (a lot of experience)
How about that!

I slept in a Holiday Inn Express last night, does that count?

Just a lowly, dirt-farming LPN with grandiose aspirations for an RN/BSN and beyond.

RNP will be gone by the time I get to BSN, in favor of DNP, and practicing RNP's won't be able to bill medicare, which means a bankrupt practice in my area...

Just had a seminar w/ a MSN/RN who "established" the RN pain management specialty here in the state. We got a pool-ball-in-a-sock beating about the dangers of labeling.

Awesome lady, really black-and-white about seeing the gray, if that makes sense...

Labeling is good...

Okay, I do know that movie. I think my dad had a copy of it...

Divination, a la Johnny Carson.