OOK,
I posted this to you on your first thread. It is the last post to it and you never answered it. I am copying it to here because I think that post needs addressing before any progress can be made.
Here it is:
OOK,
I don�t know if you are still posting or not, but I would like to come at this from a slightly different point of view. I know some of the things I am going to say will sound like I am attacking you, I AM NOT. What I want to attack is the problem. I want to see if you, I and the others can frame this problem in a way that will allow you to develop a plan to save your marriage. Dr. Phil did not invent this statement but �you cannot solve a problem until you acknowledge there is one.� I will go further as a scientist and say you cannot solve a problem until you define it, frame it, and develop a plan of attack and to check the results you receive.
The problem is NOT your affair any longer. The problem is the damage you did to your H. The problem is the price he paid to stay in the marriage with you and his apparent strategy for surviving in it now because of the kids. So the rest of this post is about what I think the problem is. When I am done I want your feedback on defining it further, THEN you can use the very powerful tools to develop a plan and implement it.
You said
I had a 2 year PA that ended a little over 3 years ago. My behaviour was atrocious, awful, deplorable during this time and it took me a long time to wake up to that fact even after the A ended. My H fought very hard to keep me, he reacted pretty much the opposite way I would have expected.. AT FIRST. He discovered my A one year after it became physical.. but you know how these things work; it didn't completely end for another year after his discovery because I was such a fool. I was so screwed up at the time, H pretty much carried the load until I got right in the head. It took me a good year to get right after I cut off all contact with OM.
So the problem is, around about the time I was getting right, H was starting to fully realize what happened. I think he fought so hard for so long, he wasn't able to process the whole thing at first. So about 2 years ago is when the real problems started.
Before I go into some of them, let me just defend my H a little bit- he is absolutely devastated even now and he is just having a horrible time with this whole thing. I've handled this horribly, too... especially right after he found out and right after it ended.
On the grand scheme of things you seem to understand what has happened to your H. Let me go a bit further. He tried to hang in there and save the marriage, he fought to end the affair. He thought he had, but you continued it for another year and then ended it. I am sure he was emotional exhausted. He asked for details and to your credit you apparently told him all of the details. It is not clear how long that took you or how forthcoming you were. Now he realizes he paid and EVEN BIGGER price to save this marriage than he realized and he is in shock. But, eventually he comes out of that and the anger shows up.
You do know what anger is don�t you? It is a secondary emotion driven by primary ones such as: pain, fear, anxiety, frustration, etc. You are starting to see these fears as his anger mounts. You feel you should take it and you do, but eventually you correctly decide you cannot put up with the anger and you confront him and his angry outbursts, AO�s. Stop BUT�
And then my BH hasn't accepted certain things which he has to accept. For instance, in his mind because I never refused OM for sex, I should never refuse him. That's just not realistic even under the best of circumstances as this is marriage not an affair.... I know this is not fair, but it is the way that it is. So there are all these hangups, which in his mind are my problem to solve... BUT in my mind we need both of us to solve them.
Here is where the problem definition begins. What does your H have to accept? You did things for OM and his friends that you would never do for him? That you loved OM and had a passion for OM that you have never had for your H? That in an affair you are/were willing to be very sexually active, but in a marriage you feel that sex is a second class thing? And then you say
So there are all these hangups, which in his mind are my problem to solve... You see they are YOUR problems to solve. You cannot possibly have a good marriage until you can solve these issues. You declaring that won�t do certain acts for �moral reasons� or �they are disgusting� is telling him that he is second class to the OM and others.
You have already heard others tell you this. But, my question to you, is what is supposed to make your H think that he is first with you? Is he supposed to accept the previous marriage situation, if you could get back there? That previous marriage situation led to you having an affair and basically taking a knife and gutting him from his crotch to his throat. So what are you offering him? What would YOU need if you were in his place and he in yours?
You also said much later.
My H I think has just about written the M off outside of tolerating me. I know that he does not want to D, matter what... we do not fight around our child, he is a fantastic Father and he believes staying together is best for our child. I WANT A REAL MARRIAGE, THOUGH!
It's really hard for me to explain things... my H has told me that he considers it a slap in the face that I won't do these sexual things, and that he doesn't care what it costs... that he will not let me 'beat' him and that I will 'lose'. I really don't understand him! But I will say that some of the things that people are ascribing to him are wrong wrong wrong!
You don�t understand him? He seems pretty transparent to me and others. Many have already said he feels he is in competition with OM and he flat out tells you that is how he feels. I am not recommending that you do something you feel is immoral or disgusting, but you MUST find a way to compensate your H for what you have done, and it doesn�t seem that you have.
Dr. Harley is big on �just compensation� and that is what your H is asking for. It is focused on sex because that is how you showed OM you wanted him and loved him. (I don�t want to hear from anyone about it was the �fog� not love. She felt is was love, and her H feels she loved OM far more than she loves H). You say you want a �real marriage� what would that look like to you? What would it look like to your H? You need to define that.
So the issues boil down to two. What is really the problem? And how do you provide �just compensation� and that entails you understanding what a good marriage would be for him and for you. It would entail you addressing the concept that it is fine to have lots of sex in an affair but not in a marriage, you are not in the �fog� now are you? It means really delving into H�s feelings. You are not his counselor, but he MUST be honest with you and tell you what his dreams are like, what his triggers are, and what hurts him so. Most of us can guess, but he needs to give voice to his pain, and YOU must listen and NOT tell him to just �get over it� which in essence is what you have done with how you have handled things. Your first quote was dead on, you have not handled it well.
Here is something for you to think about. He yelled at you, screamed at you, and called you names and when you finally stood up and told him no more, he stopped. When you had your affair and he found out about it, he stood up and told you no more, and you continued. You keep saying you cannot love him while he was so angry. You say you cannot love him because he is now silent. I ask you, when can you start loving him and make him feel he is loved?
It is my opinion that these questions, and statements require a response about your opinions about the real problems, some ideas as to how you want to solve them, and a plan to implement those ideas. You will receive a lot of help and ideas from us when you are really ready to formulate the real problem and start to come up with ideas on how to address it. You are quitting on him and he is withdrawing to protect himself from you.
I do hope you come back and read this, and I do hope that you consider what I have said.
God Bless,
JL
