Want_it_to_work,

I don't think I have posted to you before. Since I'm a FWW, and still sometimes very wayturd, I wanted to give you my opinion from my perspective.

Your wife, as I was might seem to be sometimes getting out of the fog, and truly believing that she is doing the right thing. She probably believes she has control of her actions, and that seing OM pictures are harmless. Please, keep in mind, that she is not going to be able to make decisions on her own for a LONG time. Even when it looks that she is getting it! She is still very much in the fog, and missing OM. I was also able to see pictures of OM on FB even though he was no longer an FB friend. Of course, I also thought there was nothing wrong by looking at them.

Thank God my FBH decided to cut off FB for my own good. Of course I got upset, I felt controlled I hated my husband back then, you named it. But I do understand now, that it was the right thing to do. I could have never being able to do it on my own, even if I thought I could.

Remember, you are right now the rationale one, and when people here tell you to do something, is because they know the consequences of not doing it.

If she continues contact of ANY kind, your M have no chance to recover. On the other hand, if you do follow instructions and cut as many contacts as you posibly can, you do have a chance ar recovery.

She will try to controled you by saying all of those foggy things she said, but ultimately you are the OnLY one right now that can be trusted. If you want to have your wonderful wife back, be patience and follow MB instructions, even though they might seem scary sometimes, they are the only way to go!

I hope I helped you, you know I'm very sleepy right now, but I wanted to try to help!

Rizos

Thanks Rizos...I hear what you're saying and it makes complete sense...................................

One thing, however, is if I cut off FB before we leave I know it'll go deeper....she'll be very reactionary whereas at this point it's well under control and this was the first slipup in a month, as far as I know. Again, I just want to wait it out for another 34 days and then I can "lay down the law" because we're leaving here forever.

It would be nearly impossible to Plan B here where we live (Africa), but next month Plan B is a very easy, but unwanted, option.

This should work, unless you're using a proxy server (not likely):


1. In Explorer, open c:\windows\drivers\etc
2. Open Notepad, and drag the "Hosts" file into Notepad for editing.
3. Add the something like the following at the bottom of the file, below where it says "127.0.0.1 localhost"

127.0.0.1 facebook.com
127.0.0.1 www.facebook.com

You can use any IP address you want, once it's not the IP address for FB, of course .

4. Save the file.
5. Try opening FB. If it doesn't load, then you've successfully "blocked" it.

thanks MiM. We use apple computers so I don't think that would work, but i have eblaster on hers so, according to the company, I can use that to block any site. Haven't tested it, though.

WITW,

I understand what you are saying, but keep in mind that if your wife keeps looking at those pictures, it keeps the flame alive! This is very dangerous, my discovery D was at the beginning of Jul 2009, 30 days more without being discovered and it would have turn into a full blown PA! Even after months of no contact, I was still foggy enough to let everything go down hill for OM.

You have to be very careful, she's going to try to seek contact with OM, and in those 34 days she might get pregnant! You have to be the strong one now, and make the right decisions for her. It sounds terrible given the fact that she's an adult, but you have to treat het like a sick person right now, a very crazy one. She can be herself again, but she needs help now.

Btw, don't try to reason with her, it's a waste of time, and will be for a long period of time. Do it, and that's that! Tell her that you love and are going to do whatever it takes to protect her and your M!!! Even if it means to pay a police woman (please ) at the door to make sure she doesn't ran away with OM. Well, I don't think you can legally do that.

Just think about it....

Yes, Rizos, I'm sure it would've turned PA if I hadn't discovered it when I did....she says "no way" but I know different after reading all the stories here.

I don't *think* she's at the point where she would do that now, but I do indeed know that when she looks at him it brings up feelings, and she admits that when we speak. I'm watching her very closely...........

We leave this country forever tomorrow night. I'm a bit ancy. She hasn't shown any signs of trying to contact OM in about 2 months, but I'm concerned she'll try to see pay a final visit before we go wheels-up...again, OM works right downt the street....

otherwise, I'm just glad to be getting out of here. The next 40 days will be pure family time 24/7.

Long time now. Things have been very up-and-down over the past year. We're having a conversation online (she's away for the moment) and I wanted to get some input. Obviously I think I'm more on the right track - how do I explain these things to her without preaching and making her feel like I'm talking down to her?

She's really not meeting my needs very well at all. I'm trying to meet her needs but am getting tired.

She still hasn't read any books on this subject (HNHN, LB, etc) nor does she have interest in it.

Sorry for the long post, but here it is:


Her said:
and so what
you have me
we need to regain ourselves
no one can mess with us if we manage to stay happy

Me says:
so how do i make my love happy?

Her said:
by allowing each other to be ourselves and love each other unconditionally and support each other and find ways to being not only married but friends too

Me says:
yeah would be nice to be friends

Her said:
so that we can enjoy each others company and appreciate ourselves as individuals
too

Me says:
but love is always conditional

Her said:
nope it isn't

Me says:
sure it is
i can't hurt you and have you still love me no matter what - that's a condition

Her said:
I loved you unconditionally before and I am sure i can find it again if it was conditional I would have been gone
but I am still here

Me says:
see, you said it rigth there....you did love me like that and then you didn't. Why? because i hurt you...so hurting each other is out of the question...it will kill our love
people can be together without love, it happens all the time

Her said:
so in all the rubble I loved you unconditionally I just have to get all the junk out from on top of me
yes but love is all I have

Me says:
love can diminish too
we have to always try to build it

Her said:
I didn't marry for your money or looks or smarts or job or family name or "charm" etc
I just love you and thats why I married yu
yes it can but if you love conditionally
I loved you unconditionally

Me says:
yeah, but we need to be 'in love' i think

Her said:
you loved me perhaps conditionally and thats why we had all the crap tag along. I was not up to par back then
ok you got me on that one I was in love and the in part fell off but I still have love
I am working with my self to get the in back
but I want to get there with me taking each step at a time and not feel rushed and expected to be "in" you sometime try to hard and thats not cool or natural to me and thats when we don't see eye to eye

Me says:
try too hard to be in love with my wife?

Her said:
and I hate seeing the disappoint look on your face. I need you to love me the way you feel
and let me love you my way
no try to hard to make me fall back "in"love with you

Me says:
we always have to try hard
that's the problem - i never tried hard enough
now i'm trying hard and no te gusta

Her said:
yes but too hard can go over board and its not enjoyable
especially then I see your expectation and if you don't get a reaction you were hoping for you crash and get dipressed
brb

Me says:
well it's not for no reason you know - it's not like we haven't had a tough year, it's stressful
as you know, it's not a nice feeling to be married to someone and love someone and not get those same feelings in return
it messes with your head

Her said:
yes I have had 7

Me says:
yep, i know

Her said:
so I know

Me says:
yep, i know
i don't ever take that away from you

Her said:
just know that I love you
and I am sure we will get there
just enjoy the positive bit instead of always focusing on the negative

Me says:
i try

Her said:
I want you to feel free to be yourself and love me because you love me and not because you have fear I will leave you

Me says:
i told you that's not what i fear...many times
i do love you because i love you........but i want love in return too, that's all we both want

Her said:
you always say " what if you we don't get there"
so where is there?

Me says:
just because you say "i'm sure we'll get there"

Her said:
yes I want that too but I want it to come naturally and not because you expect it that stresses me out
that is based on trusting that we will so believe it and focus on it instead of but what of we don't

Me says:
i don't get that 'naturally' thing....i don't think anything about relationships is natural - it takes work

Her said:
that alone makes me shut down and not feel like anything
it was always natural to me unless you didn't notice all those years

Me says:
in some ways it is natural, sure i take it back
but, not all ways
and it's little things we do that can make the difference
and we have to work at those thigns

Her said:
which then will make me feel disappointed to the fact that not only did you not appreciate it but to the extent that you didn't see or feel my love for you all those years

Me says:
of course i did
but you know i took it for granted, which i admit and regret

Her said:
I did lots of little things without even thinking.. It was natural because my love was from all parts of me
yes so let me breath and love you the way I love you not the way you want me to
and trust we shall get there
I believe we will and its up to you to believe it too

Me says:
ok - fine. But what if we don't show each other the right kind of love that makes us feel good. I can love you all day long and if it isn't the right kind then....

Her said:
as long as you don't we will have problems and stay in a negative rut

Me says:
if i think you like one thing but you really don't.......
so this is all me?

Her said:
so lets talk and ask and try and if one says please stop I don't like that then stop listen to each other to learn about eachother
and not assume we know best
thats a parent child relationship we are supposed to be equal partners in this

Me says:
well, just wondering because you said "as long as you don't we will have problems and stay in a negative rut"

Her said:
We come from couldn't be more opposites as backgrounds
as long as you don't believe we will get there and keep focusing on "what if we don't" instead of "we will get there and be happy"
honestly every time you say that my blood boils and I get upset but try to keep calm
then I shut down again

Me says:
well do you honestly feel like that? honestly? you feel like you'll fall back in love with me?

Her said:
yes if you let me find my own way back instead of trying too hard to direct my feelings and reactions and meeting your expectations or having you drain my energy when you are all dippressed and stuff
I wake up every morning thinking this is going to be a good day then at times I see how unchirpy you are it makes me lose energy
Me says:
i guess i feel the same lots of times

Her said:
when you look dipressed then I get sad and my mood changes and I become all god knows what

Me says:
i just feel like you're still angry at me lots of the time
and i think we really need to meet each others needs

Her said:
Maybe I am because I don't have a breather I feel suffocated sorry this sound harsher than I meant but I just can't seem to be me around you
your needs are stressful to me because you always have expectations of me
I am sorry but I try
again I don't get a chance to love you the way I love you I have to try and not disappoint you because you expect me to meet your needs your way
I am not there yet
I used to be there and beyond
I admit I lost the will
but I am trying to find the way back

Me says:
so tell me you don't understand why that would make me stress?

Her said:
just trust me when I say I want to get back and be better just stop suffocating me we anticipation of wanting me to meet your needs your way
I love you more than I can express
I will not leave you especially now I can see you love me and are trying

Me says:
is there any other way to meet needs than the way the person NEEDS it? if i meet YOUR needs MY way that isn't likely to be the right way

Her said:
this is who I was hoping I married when I married you
you are not meeting my needs
but you are trying and that counts for alot

Me says:
what are your needs?

Her said:
you listen to me but don't hear me at all
you are focused on what YOU think my needs are and not what I tell you they are

Me says:
what are your needs?

Her said:
you always make me feel you know better
for you to love me the way I love you not the way you want me to at least for no
now

Me says:
that's it?

Her said:
learn to love me without expectations
I am trying to love you without expectations

Me says:
of course you have expectations though - i mean you expect me not to cheat on you, go to work, be a good dad, etc
those are all expectations that go along with being together

Her said:
yes babe but I am talking about loving each other and you are jumping into other stuff
I will not cheat on you
if thats your fear

Me says:
i didn't say that, i am talking about things we expect of each otehr
it's an example
so i'm saying, you fell out of love with me...why? I think it's because i wasn't meeting your needs, especially emotionally
your needs/expectations of the way to be shown love/affections/care
that's what i think anyhow
but you're telling me in some ways none of that stuff matters and 'just love' - but i think they go hand in hand, that if i don't do those things for you then your love won't be what you'd like it to be

Her said:
all I needed was love respect and faithfulness these missing things are what made me fall out of love

More - sorry for the dates and length, I just finally thought after all this time it would be easier to post this and let you read for yourselves what I'm dealing with for input. Thanks.


[10/23/11 8:51:27 PM] Her: and so you don't want to discuss anymore?
[10/23/11 8:51:46 PM] Her: then whats the problem

[10/23/11 8:51:53 PM] Me: what's there to discuss? you just say stop smothering you and that's that

[10/23/11 8:52:38 PM] Her: ok would you rather I pretend or actually enjoy things?
[10/23/11 8:53:16 PM] Her: and like I said you stress me out regardless so you saying I don't need that stress is stressful

[10/23/11 8:53:17 PM] Me: i'd rather we work together on it
[10/23/11 8:53:35 PM] Me: you doing it your way, and me doing it my way won't work

[10/23/11 8:53:47 PM] Her: so you do it my way then
[10/23/11 8:53:59 PM] Her: then that would be doing it the same way

[10/23/11 8:54:00 PM] Me: which is what?

[10/23/11 8:54:52 PM] Her: breath and enjoy the positive we do have instead of focusing on what we don't

[10/23/11 8:55:15 PM] Me: if only it were that simple

[10/23/11 8:55:22 PM] Her: it is

[10/23/11 8:55:31 PM] Me: i am being honest when i say i don't agree
[10/23/11 8:55:53 PM] Me: it's very difficult to enjoy the positive when the negative is there to get in the way

[10/23/11 8:56:13 PM] Her: I know you are so then you have to find away to appreciate or disagreements

[10/23/11 8:56:42 PM] Me: you don't any more than i do
[10/23/11 8:56:50 PM] Me: they make your blood boil as you say

[10/23/11 8:57:04 PM] Her: Its not magic and you can't always have it your way

[10/23/11 8:57:29 PM] Me: i've never said i wanted it my way
[10/23/11 8:57:43 PM] Me: how many times have i asked you to let me know what your needs are and tell me how to meet them?

[10/23/11 8:57:53 PM] Her: I am trying to let go but you keep sticking to the same stuff

[10/23/11 8:57:54 PM] Me: you just tell me to leave you alone and stop smothering you
[10/23/11 8:57:57 PM] Me: so do you

[10/23/11 8:58:57 PM] Her: ok I am sure you have noticed some even if miniscule change in me sticking to the bad things

[10/23/11 8:59:22 PM] Me: sure, but they're still there

[10/23/11 8:59:24 PM] Her: I am trying to work on my temper
[10/23/11 8:59:34 PM] Her: and I am trying to let go of all the junk

[10/23/11 9:00:04 PM] Me: ok

[10/23/11 9:00:07 PM] Her: still there .. what are you refering to exactly? I would like to understand so we are on teh same page

[10/23/11 9:00:45 PM] Me: i don't know how to be on your page, you haven't explained how - you just say let it be. I honestly don't know how to do that

[10/23/11 9:01:10 PM] Her: so what do you want from me?

[10/23/11 9:01:22 PM] Me: all i know is what i've read and stuff - they are 1.2.3 steps i can follow - and you've told me time and time again you've seen the results but you don't want to try that one bit

[10/23/11 9:01:54 PM] Her: seen what results?

[10/23/11 9:02:22 PM] Me: how many times, even today, have you told me how much i've changed and you appreciate it and like the new me?

[10/23/11 9:02:55 PM] Her: I like the new you
[10/23/11 9:03:01 PM] Her: and I appreciate your efforts

[10/23/11 9:03:05 PM] Me: and how do you think i got there?
[10/23/11 9:03:14 PM] Me: not by 'just letting it be'
[10/23/11 9:03:21 PM] Me: effort

[10/23/11 9:03:21 PM] Her: by doing things your way by your choice
[10/23/11 9:03:33 PM] Her: I didn't tell you or ask you to do anything
[10/23/11 9:03:57 PM] Her: you chose to do things

[10/23/11 9:04:02 PM] Me: so i shouldn't ask you to do anything?

[10/23/11 9:05:40 PM] Her: you can but don't force me to let me have the choice
[10/23/11 9:06:03 PM] Her: you had all the choices

[10/23/11 9:06:11 PM] Me: you had your choices too

[10/23/11 9:06:13 PM] Her: I never forced you or asked you
[10/23/11 9:07:02 PM] Her: to do anything ... you made your own decisions and chose to follow your researches

[10/23/11 9:07:36 PM] Me: so do you think your method is working? whats the goal of yours anyhow? is it trying to get me to be in love with you? what is it?

[10/23/11 9:09:29 PM] Her: it is for me I know you don't see it or don't want to see it but I am finding my inner peace
[10/23/11 9:09:41 PM] Her: I want us to be happy
[10/23/11 9:09:50 PM] Her: I want to be with you till I die
[10/23/11 9:09:58 PM] Her: I want to be happy being with you

[10/23/11 9:10:02 PM] Me: i believe that

[10/23/11 9:10:04 PM] Her: I want my family to be happy
[10/23/11 9:10:13 PM] Her: I want you to be happy
[10/23/11 9:11:23 PM] Her: but I can't convince you of that because you are too focused on what I am not doing ad that I am not inlove with you and all the negativity

[10/23/11 9:12:44 PM] Me: because those feelings are amplified after being hurt - you can relate

[10/23/11 9:12:52 PM] Her: yes I can

[10/23/11 9:12:59 PM] Me: so they can overpower positive feelings

[10/23/11 9:13:28 PM] Her: thats why I am working in getting over them and hoping you will too
[10/23/11 9:14:00 PM] Me: you know i am - you can see it

[10/23/11 9:14:22 PM] Her: you say you are I don't see it as clearly

[10/23/11 9:14:36 PM] Me: you said 1 million times you see it
[10/23/11 9:16:01 PM] Me: no, now i can say that i get very happy when i feel love from you and i feel very sad when i don't...i get swings of emotion
[10/23/11 9:17:21 PM] Me: i try to get over things but it gets amplified when something else negative happens - i wish i could help that

[10/23/11 9:18:57 PM] Her: I want you to let me have a chance to show you my love like I used to my way first before fulfilling your expectations
[10/23/11 9:19:36 PM] Her: its hard to give you anything with having the fear of you will be dissapointed if its not up to you expectations

[10/23/11 9:20:27 PM] Me: so i guess husbands and wives should never have expectations? like being honest with each other, sharing, not hiding things, etc? i shouldn't expect any of that from you and vice versa?

[10/23/11 9:21:11 PM] Her: Yes but not forced
[10/23/11 9:21:33 PM] Her: you never had to ask me for anythning before I shared and gave it all with joy

[10/23/11 9:21:55 PM] Me: ok, and just because you don't want to now means you shouldn't?

[10/23/11 9:22:09 PM] Her: no it means give me a chance

[10/23/11 9:22:12 PM] Me: so if i felt like doing whatever i want now, that's ok by you?
[10/23/11 9:22:25 PM] Me: how long is that gonna take? the chance? just wondering?

[10/23/11 9:22:44 PM] Her: I would rather you be with me and show me what you want because you want to and not becasue you think I expect it from you

[10/23/11 9:23:21 PM] Me: i don't think humans really work like that - we have to resist our impulses in all different aspects of life

[10/23/11 9:23:29 PM] Her: I'd rather you give the love and emotions because you want to not because you think thats what I expect and need from you

[10/23/11 9:23:40 PM] Me: it's all of the above
[10/23/11 9:24:08 PM] Me: i know you expect certain things...everyone does

[10/23/11 9:24:43 PM] Her: Why don't you believe me when I say I stopped expecting anything
[10/23/11 9:24:56 PM] Her: and I am finding myself to slowly be a happier person
[10/23/11 9:25:40 PM] Her: unless I am happy inside myself I can't make anyone happy

[10/23/11 9:25:55 PM] Me: i know you have expectations, saying you don't is untrue

[10/23/11 9:26:00 PM] Her: do you think there is any depressed person that can give joy to anyone at all

[10/23/11 9:26:02 PM] Me: you expect me to treat you right, you do, you must admit that
[10/23/11 9:26:28 PM] Me: if i didn't treat you right now you'd be miserable and we probably wouldn't be together

[10/23/11 9:26:29 PM] Her: ok in your mind what do I expect then since you know what I feel and think better than myself
[10/23/11 9:26:53 PM] Her: yes thats true but I don't expect it

[10/23/11 9:27:40 PM] Me: ok, we're getting into semantics
[10/23/11 9:27:49 PM] Me: so you want that but don't expect it

[10/23/11 9:27:32 PM] Her: I decided that if you CHOSE to treat me well I will appreciate it if you CHOSE to treat me like crap I get up and go that simple
[10/23/11 9:27:49 PM] Her: but I DON"T expect you to do anything
[10/23/11 9:28:18 PM] Her: you have the choice to do the same
[10/23/11 9:30:27 PM] Her: I can tell you I love you a million times and I do I can tell you I am not planning to leave our marriage because I am optimistic we wil finally get there and be truely happy . Maybe I am (used to be) too positive and a perfectionist and can't except failure
[10/23/11 9:37:50 PM] Her: I would like to have it but won't be disapointed if I don't get it

What's Wrong with Unconditional Love 7.19.2009

Don't know if anyone read any of this, but she mentioned 'unconditional love' several times in our chats. Just copied and pasted this article to her and she just said "thanks".

Am I the crazy one here?

I am sorry, I am not going to read through an exchange with a foggy entitled wayward and a BS that hasn't been using MB principles, and isn't in Plan B.

You haven't posted in almost a year, and what you post is some exchanges with your WW.

Why aren't you in Plan B? Why is your WW away from you? What has happened in your marriage. I believe that at best, you are in a FR.

What I take from this text-log is that you wasted almost an hour of your life that you will never get back!

But - I also will add that after absorbing the tripe that she contributed, I feel stupider than I had been previously.

I could go on an on about the previous year or so. We've moved to our new location since January and things are better, but she has still refused to do any MB related steps. It's worn on my and my Plan A is wearing thin, as well. I don't think I'm ready for Plan B at this point, honestly. I know it's a possibility, but don't think I'm there yet.

She's away because her father is very ill and just had surgery. I talk to them nightly on Skype. I am meeting them next week when they return from the hospital.

Got in an argument this evening (via skype) because she saw I'm a bit down and it 'stresses her out' Granted, she doesn't need stress right now with her father's situation, but I'm not the one that instigated this at all.

Keeps asking why I insist on doing it MY way and not HER way and just leaving her alone about it so she can heal herself before she can show me the full love that she used to have. I respond saying it just wont work like that unless we work on it together with a plan. I also mentioned I agree 100% with that article on unconditional love and she really didn't have a response to that, except bringing up more of the past and how I treated her.

At the end she said "find a therapist and send me a list of what you want me to do" - this was in quite a bitter tone but it's the first time she's ever said that.

Otherwise, it was a lot of the same stuff you read above in the chats

Call harley's and set up an appointment, now!

Going to for sure.

She's still out of town with her father. She watched "Fireproof" and told me to watch it, so I did (within 24 hours of her asking me to and she still hasn't read any of the MB books). Ironically, she kept pushing it on me. It was ok but she is asking me if I now understand her side of the story and it's not about the affair but the problems in our marriage... this is something I've been saying to her all along. She still think I'm focusing on the A and that's it. I think you can see from our chats above that isn't the case.

Movie is a decent framework, but how do I respond to her?

I think it's a good sign she's now talking about it, but am wondering where to go from here.

Plan B will wake her right up!!!

She is gaslighting you, and unwilling to take the full responsibility for her adultery. She sees you very weak at the moment, and is taking full advantage.

Please consider Plan B immediately. She needs to see a very strong man emerge. I know Plan B will give you the resources to come out very strong.

Also - she knows very well how to manipulate you. She is using you as her punching bag for the demise of her life. As long as you allow her to punch you, she will not punch the other man.

You need to lets warts and all to shine bright in front of the OM now. Let him see this manipulative woman for what she truly is today.

Get out of her drama and build up your manliness. Do not allow her to use you as her punching bag anymore.

Write out your Plan B letter today. Get your IM set-up, and let her know you are finished until she ends all contact for life and commits to recovery.

She started watching some of the videos on the MB site today (it's only been 16 months now ), giving me quite a bit of grief over it though as if she's doing me a favor (and she very much thinks she is).

I do indeed know she is committed to this marriage, she just honestly wants to do it HER way, and she keeps hurting me with this mindset and some of her careless actions. Withdrawing lots of love units from me, honestly.

When she gets back we're going to call an MB counselor and maybe they can talk some sense into her.

Read this gem when I was asking her what her needs are: "my need at this stage is for you to give me space to deal with my issues and depression to get myself out because you can't do that for me. you fulfilling my needs is to do just that because everything else relies on me feeling good within myself instead of you trying to fix everything your way. I don't need you make me feel that I don't know what I am doing and if I don't work with you then my method of recovery is wrong. I can't give you love if I an't find it in myself."

I hate to say it but she is still thinking only of herself....
I think you simply try to get her to the MB counselor and maybe she will start to think clearly.
You have to first get her to stop all contact......
Be the great guy you are and she needs, when she wakes up from her fog she will see that you are the man she wants.....you will be her reality...........
I agree with Tough, you need to let her see the OM and he needs to see her what she really is and let the fantasy life take a nose dive, maybe it is time for Plan B, if she understands what life without you will look like she will have to face the reality of her life...........watch the OM bolt when he thinks you have passed her over to him for life.......
I think you need to take a stand