Hi Pepperband,

Since the last contact (SF) on 10/10/10, I have not been in the best of spirits. I was in plan A for 7 months prior to this. Because there is no NC, it appears that my efforts have not had the desired results. I really hope that with this latest blowup, she can finally begin the withdrawal proper. At the end of that I will be ready to go into plan A full-time. All these false starts have really got my goat. My WW is very resilient and I feel this is a true contest of willpower - and this is the one that I am going to win, no matter which way it goes.
BR, Schooner

I admit I haven't read the whole thread but I saw the last page or so...

Is she still refusing to delete OM as a FB friend?

As long as he's her FB friend, you should basically treat that as contact..w/d will likely not happen. What are your boundaries regarding this?

Hi SusieQ,

You nailed my problem squarely - I have not been able to enforce the NC via FB. Of course, I could just throw the whole internet modem in the trash.....hmm.

Thanks, Schooner.

Or you can demand NC...which is exactly what Dr Harley says to do...

My advice would be to tell her you have a lot of hope for the M and you are willing to forgive her for her A...but that if she remains in contact with OM in any way shape or form (including FB) that that isn't going to work for you. (do this calmly but firmly)

And I would do this soon because each discovery you make of her looking at OM's FB page or sending him messages is another dday for you and hurts your chances of recovering this M.

Why not just block FB?

Are you using a Windows PC?

1. Using Explorer, open c:\windows\system32\drivers\etc.
2. Start Notepad, and drag the "Hosts" file into Notepad.
3. At the end of the file, add the following line:

127.0.0.1 www.facebook.com

(or you can choose any IP address that will result in a "404" error if you try to open it in your browser)
4. Save the file
5. Try opening FB to see if the change made a difference.

Its sounds like your wife is on the 5 year plan until your youngest is out of school. Just a thought!!

Hi,

I guess we are making some progress, albeit in unconventional ways. As I mentioned before, I hacked into WS FB account and sent a derogatory personal message to OM. His response to her has had the desired affect. WS talked to her friend, whose live-in boyfriend just left her, and WS has turned around almost completely. Whereas a few weeks ago, she found all sorts of excuses, at my expense, for her behaviour, she admitted last night that the only problem we really have in our marriage is her affair!

She now realises that I have rather effectively run him off - he has now blocked his FB account so that only friends can see his photo's (she is no longer a friend). Some of their common friends do have photo's with him in it, and she views these.

She actually brought up the subject of the NC letter last night and said that it should no longer be necessary to draft it. I let it slide for the moment - it is the next crucial step along this path. All talk of my obnoxious behaviour has now evaporated, and she is telling her friends that we have no need to divorce.

The way I see the situation at present, is that some of the fog is dissipating, alowing her to see the situation for what it is. It is now 6 weeks since her breach of NC (they had SF) and to be honest, what with the anti-depressants and all, I have not felt much desire for SF either (actually I have, but have been able to suppress the desire). I feel that I don't really want it at present, it's not just resentment talking either. I don't want to be that close to her. I'd rather we continue as only friends for the time being.

My plans are to continue focusing on self-improvement, I am in very good shape physically and can compete with men half my age in karate and swim competively with men one third my age. All this in less than a year (I lost 18 kg in six months). Last Saturday at our office christmas party, I had a good time dancing with most of our younger ladies and my self esteem got a huge boost. When I got home, my WS asked me specifically if I danced with anybody and seemed pleased that I had. She actually does like the fact that other ladies, especially younger ones, can be attracted to me - she has admitted that it makes me more attractive to her.

To recapitulate, my next and only move, should be to insist on the letter of NC - that would be a positive indication that we are progressing.

Thanks for all the great encouragement, now it's time to be a decent husband and father.

Best regards,
Schooner

NC letter is necessary as are new email and new phone numbers with the OM blocked on both.

Or - it helps to minimize her guilt and she will use what you told her against you later. Sorry to rain on your parade man. You are on slippery slope enjoying the attention of other women. You are extremely susceptible to your own affair right now and if it happens it will complicate things greatly.

Focus on NC, self-improvement and your marriage, avoid these "egoboosts" at all costs.

Schooner, the NC letter IS still important. Not only so OM will back off but to close the door for WW.

Also, as recon pointed out, you are the one more susceptible to a revenge affair.

I also don't like the "friends" comment. This is recovery. You need to be working to create a romantic marriage.

Oh boy, there are some big here.
OK, will she "block" him so that she can't see his pictures or posts on friends' walls? Have you told her you expect this from her in order to comply with NC?? Have you told her that you consider her looking at his FB pictures to be in violation of NC?

It's nice that she doesn't think she needs to write a NC letter...but have you let her know that this is something you expect her to do?

I don't know that her "fogginess" is the main problem...but moreso the belief that she has that she doesn't really need to make any changes & can do the bare minimum to keep you in the M...

Hi SusieQ,

I wonder why I cannot enforce NC? My WW still clicks on his profile in FB even though there is not much she can see (I know this because the keylogger report allows me to click on the same sites). It's almost as if it is just out of habit (or out of hope that this time she can see more than his profile picture). There is one photo of him on another person's site which she frequently views.

I have tried on numerous times to get her write the NC but she is as stubborn as a mule. Last weekend I told her that I had confronted the OM (a week after renewed contact) and had humiliated him and forced him to promise NC on his side - in between the blowups from WS, she was at times pleased that I had done so, she saw it as chivalry.

Unfortunately one of her best (female)friends is in a similar situation to us, but in their case, the BH is doing the opposite - he is actually trying to befriend the OM and has even shaken hands with him in front of his own WS!

Still, I am working on the NC. Is it a fact that when the WS refuses to send a NC, the affair is still somehow ongoing? Or is it all about the fact that my WS is used to people giving in to her demands?

There is a lot more respect from her at present but nothing has really changed. Right now I am still in plan A, and enjoying parts of it - SF for the first time since second D-day (10.10.10). This was only possible on my side after I told her of my encounter with OM.

She has recently witnessed a breakup between her childhood best friend and her long term boyfriend (he moved in with his affair partner) and this friend of hers had to sell of their jointly owned house. It is so sad to see how easily long term relationships and marriages are being terminated all around us. I think she realises the potential threat to our marriage and she too wants us to stay together - now we just need to know how to go about it (that is, after her written NC letter has been sent).

Best regards to all,
Schooner

Hi Schooner,

No contact gives you and her a closure and an opportunity for recovery. Without it, you will always wonder. For you to feel safe again with her, she needs to do it. You can very well tell her that. I would demand NC along with her list of precautions how she will ensure NC for life, you can add your thoughts there if you feel like it.

If I were you, I would continue pressing upon NC, plus no FB whatsoever or whatever kind of channel. This particular channel has supported her affair in a major way and it has to be deleted once and for all.

Right now - she doesn't have to do anything in order to keep you in this M. She has no reason to change things. You are being nice to her, and she keeps doing her things without any consequences. She does it because she can, because you let her. Either she is still having an affair or she is looking for a chance to reignite it, or she is punishing you of taking her favourite toy from her, I don't know, but start thinking about Plan B.

Hi Niitse,

I had a major blow-up with WS yesterday. She refuses to send a letter of NC to OM. She still daily views the one photo (not including the small FP profile picture) of the OM on someone else�s FB page. When I confronted her on this, she insisted that she will always cherish the memories and that I will never be able to control her thoughts.

This is true. I am slowly coming to the realization that in spite of all my actions � a very successful exposure using the private mail feature of FB and text messages to those without FB, and my confrontation of the OM � she is going very deeply underground. It is enough for her to nurture the longing (it was 8 months between their last two SF�s) and she is now just letting things go along. My plan A has made her feel good and she is under the notion that things are just OK with us.

The big red flags waving in my face are:
1) a complete lack of intimacy � no hugs, compliments, kisses � SF on two occasions in the past 8 weeks, on my initiative, now even that is not wanted;
2) direct talk of how fantastic the OM made her feel and how she doubts that she will ever feel (or has ever felt) equal passion towards me;
3) how I have done the inexcusable by �maliciously� exposing and thus humiliating her.

It just doesn�t seem as though she wants to recover. She has alienated herself from all her friends and relatives who �took my side� after exposure. She states that those friends with whom she is still in contact, advise her that she not send the letter of NC. I contacted one of those friends and it turns out that my WS has twisted the story in such a way that it appears that I am asking for a written admission of guilt and apology, and that it is only one further means of humiliating her. After having explained to this friend that what I insist on is a complete closure of the affair and that she write the letter to the OM explaining that she will never be in contact with him for life, this friend was in total agreement with me, adding that this was the least my WS should do.

So, my WS is gaslighting in a big way. My next step will be plan D. My WS insists that she does not want to leave. I, on the other hand, am now prepared to see the divorce through (in 128 days). It is the only way I can think of, to wake her up � if it results in her leaving me for good, so be it. I am fed up with her manipulative ways. My son�s psychiatrist insists that he have a stable and calm home to return to � my WS is everything but calm, constant AO�s and DJ�s to all family members. On the whole I am a lot calmer now and seldom rise to the bait � but through it all I have a gut feeling that things are never going to change for better - the sensitive person I saw her as being during her affair, was for the OM, I get to live with the grouch! That's what is so heart-wrenching.

Any advice on how long I should stick with plan A, plan D is set for 16th April 2011. Is there any room for a plan B?

Best regards,
Schooner

How long have you plan A'?

What does the divorce agreement say about who gets what?

Can your lawyer get the courts to force WW out?

That's why Plan A has to be for a relatively short time - with a WW like yours, all it does is send the message that you are okay with her dating another man and have learned to accept it. Then she's real angry if you act like you're not okay with it and tries to bully you back into acceptance of her double life.

Can you get a legal separation to get her out of the house? Then you could Plan B. That would allow you to take control of the situation and get away from the emotional abuse of your WW rubbing her affair in your face every day.

Plan D if you must, but certainly Plan B first if at all possible.

Agree your wife will never change, in her mind she doesn't want to end all contact because SHE thinks that the marriage will not work (and she is hoping for this) so she can run to the OM. Divorce will definitely wake her up either that or plan B.

FTR, I'm just sure SapphireReturns meant something more along the lines of "Your wife doesn't appear to be changing given the current situation of continued contact with the AP and Plan A by you, but I hope she is fully capable of changing and "getting it" at some point."

It does sound like things need to be shaken up a little, though, Schooner. I think TheRoad asked: how long have you been in Plan A? And how well have you executed it?

And I'll echo what Mulan said: Plan B before Plan D.

Hi again,

I get the impression that my WW does not know any better � she genuinely does not know how to behave. We discuss the affair constantly � she really does not see why it is such a big deal. It�s only when I blow up (AO) that she seems to fathom my discontent for the affair. Last night she commented that I must really have strong feelings for her if I am still this upset.

My WW has always had problems showing empathy for others. It has been a major issue in our marriage � she does not show any consideration for other peoples� feelings and will say what�s on her mind, without even realizing the hurt it causes. Through the years I have attempted to bring this to her attention and have only ended up being resentful and vindictive in return.

My own indifference to her, together with my angry, violent retorts, had alienated me from her. At present, we are talking more than we have for years. She insists that she does not want our marriage to end. I know that because I confronted the OM and so blatantly humiliated (and frightened) him � all of which I have told my WW in detail � the affair is most likely over, at least on his side. My WW realizes the futility of the affair and has written it off to experience.

Still, I have made it clear that I will only continue our marriage on the condition that she sends a letter of NC.

At present, I would like nothing more than to be in plan B. Due to the fact that she owns half of the house and there is no ongoing affair (to all extents, legally, it never really existed � a few messages on FB, a few dates and SF on four occasions) and both WW and OM will deny that it was more than a couple of opportunistic ONS�s, there is not much I can do legally. Even if I present the evidence I have (the sent messages and taped conversation in which she discusses the affair with me), nobody can be held responsible for a past affair (I, too, have been guilty of this).

All that I really need from her is a commitment to work on improving our marriage � the letter of NC would demonstrate this � unfortunately the only leverage I have is the impending divorce. It is up to me to convince her that I am serious about it � and, as in a good poker game, she will try to call my bluff on this.

At present, I have been in plan A since 7th February this year up until WW renewed contact on 10th October and have since continued it up to the present. Admittedly there have been LB�s along the way, but even she says that this is the best she has seen of me.

Best regards,
Schooner

Whatever do you mean by this? Of course it legally existed! Sexual intercourse with another is grounds for divorce in every single part of the world!