I've been wondering this ever since my H left after I told off Mia via phone call at work....<P>Do any of you ever feel that you use the "being cheated on" situation to manipulate your spouses into feeling bad, or guilt, or whatever??? I can honestly say I do. I doesn't work, but I still do it. I know for me, I can turn any argument around to make EVERYTHING completely H's fault. I especially throw the "you're the one who cheated" line out all the time.<P>Just wondering if I'm the one who really is irrational, or do any of you do this too?

though I am the betrayer, I can say that yes, my husband does this, and quite often.<BR>We could argue about money, and it will come back to " you're the one who cheated on me". Everything is my fault because I had an affair. Every argument that we have that has nothing to do with the affair, eventually ends with it being because of the affair. Sad that it is like this, but it shows me just how hurt he is, and how I have to work harder loving him and showing him that I am working hard at our marriage. Someday, not every thing will come back to being because of the affair. I hope.<BR>patty

Hi TL,<BR>I felt that one of the reasons why I cheated is because I wasn't able to be honest and talk with my H before anything happened. Fear, conflict avoidance, a whole bunch of things. I think we both had problems in this area. Knowing this, I tried very hard to get to the root of our problems after I confessed. It was very frustrating to hear things like "that's funny coming from you" when trying to talk about the importance of honesty from *both* of us. Or when I expressed my sadness at his pulling away, he'd say "well you're the one who cheated." He said these things more than a few times. It was like nothing I said or did would ever have any relevance. I felt like I wasn't allowed to think, have feelings, be mad, sad, or even happy sometimes. If I was feeling happy some days, then I wasn't "remorseful" enough. If I was mad or sad, then he thought I was telling him to "get over it". I couldn't do anything right, it seemed. I could not make even the smallest demand, or hold him to any of his promises, because it would always go back to my cheating.

TL - Can't say I'm terribly guilty of that - however, I do think it alot and try to bite my tongue because I know he already knows he is the betrayer and saying it pushes him away. Sometimes it does come out in anger, like last night (see my anniversary post) <BR>We were talking about plans for our upcoming anniversary which is quite special to me considering what we've gone through the past 1+ years and H says what he really wants is for me to get the house painted - all paint work and home improvements stopped when he filed for divorce and then disclosed his affair. I got upset and said alot of things including "you never appreciated or noticed all the home improvements I was doing when you were out f***g around"<BR>So yeah, I slip up sometimes and do it - more as a defensive move than to manipulate. I think H feels guilty without me bringing "it" up.<BR> Simone

I don't use words I withdraw, is that manipulation?<BR>Sometimes I wish I could just get angry at him and sream my inner most thoughts, but I bury them to save his feelings.<BR>But I do withdraw when He makes me mad, since the affair, it's not like just a fight anymore, it's is he going to turn to her again? What if I say the wrong thing and push him to her? <BR>Of course mine is still very fresh and he works with her, so my fear is tremendous right now.<BR>

I am the same as Mater. I am afraid if I bring something up it might push him back to her. I am afraid to let out my feelings because of my fear. I love him so much, and I do feel like I pushed him to her before. So I clam up...<P>------------------<BR>Jaded Heart<BR>____________<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>and if I shed a tear I won't cage it<BR>I won't fear love<BR>and if I feel a rage I won't deny it<BR>I won't fear love<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>"Fumbling Towards Ecstasy"<BR>Sarah Mclachlan<P><BR>

tired lady,<P>My wife never really used my infidelity against me, thank goodness!<P>I think you should try to curb that habit... love-busting galore there. <P>--andy

I'm with Jadedheart and Mater. I haven't mentioned the affair (so far to her) as I don't want to lovebust. The only thing is when I have to stand up for myself such as she wants to bring home the furniture they bought. I've told her no way.

I think most of us(betrayed) do this without even trying...<P>Just seeing the expressions on our faces... our body language... our tone... or silence... cuts like a knife. However... real guilt will only come when the betrayer knows they've <B>really</B> done wrong...<P>Jim<BR>--------------<BR>I can dare myself... I'll put a pebble in my shoe...<BR>I can walk... I can walk! I shall call the pebble Dare...<BR>Dare shall be carried... And when we both have had enough<BR>I will take him from my shoe, singing... "Meet your new road!"...<BR>Finally glad... Finally glad... That you are here... By my side...

You have to be careful. My W renewed the issues as often as possible to "Remind" me of what I had done. It was also unfortunate that we started with a counselor that took the same approach in our sessions and also continually reminded me of the guilt and shame (boy was that destructive and unhealthy) that I should honestly feel each and every day. I believe that feeling guilty about what you have done is a part of the process that as a betrayer you have to go through to understand the issues in your relationship and the consequences of your actions. Having a goal to make one feel shameful I believe long term is destructive to healing, forgiving and the rebuilding of the relationship.<P>mr rlk

TL,<BR>I can only speak as to how I feel about your question. I don't try to manipulate my W through guilt. I try to alleviate her guilt because I know deep down she thinks that I will continually bring it to the surface to make her feel bad. I want her to know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I LOVE HER unconditionally with the LOVE that is an action that was taught to us by Jesus. I know it bothers her as much as the pain I feel by being betrayed. I am not a doormat even though when looked at from a worldly perspective that is exactly what I look like. I am merely a God fearing, in a loving way, man who wants the best for my W. I truly do seek the best for her. <P>I feel that you are being harder on yourself than your H is. I think it has to do with the guilt that we impose on ourselves, me included. I feel guilty that I know, understand, and feel things now that I didn't at the beginning of our marriage. However, I know that all that I know, understand, and feel comes from God. No, I am not balming Him. I just know that Satan is real and he lies to us continually to get us not to do God's will.<P>God be with you.<P>------------------<BR>God Bless,<BR>Rob<P><BR>

It is tempting to use infidelity as a manipulative weapon, but if your goal is recovery and healing, it is not effective in achieving your goal.<P>You feel what you feel. However, if you are working toward recovery, you need to remember you are committed to working toward the feelings you want to have.<P>Choosing your marriage takes courage for you and for your spouse. <P>You may have had problems in your relationship before the infidelity, so the infidelity itself is not your only problem. It is, however a huge barrier to intimacy to both you and your spouse. <P>When the betrayed decides to stay in the marriage, I believe we need to also commit to moving toward a forgiving spirit and moving toward actual rebuilding and recovery. That doesn't mean they instantly feel forgiving, or have the answers for recovery, it means they need to be willing to move toward that and conversely to move away from anything (bitterness, disrespect, lovebusting) that would impede recovery. Of course mistakes and a bit of back sliding on this roller coaster is to be expected, but in general we need to want to move forward (even at a snails pace) and needs to do the work necessary to actually move forward.<P>When the betrayer chooses to stay in the marriage, I believe they need to commit to a spirit of reconcilliation and coversely move away from anything that inhibits it. The betrayer also feels what they feel, but the betrayer also needs to want to feel differently and do the hard work that will move them toward actually feeling differently.<P>Those feelings you want are not just some elusive bubble that will just drift your way and pop on you. Those feelings are something you need to create...not overnight, but you need to keep wanting and keep working toward your goal. <P>It's OK to feel discouraged, boy don't we all some days.<P>But dwell upon what you can think and what you can do that will help you achieve your goal, and eliminate the things you think or do that can hurt your chances for recovery.<P>Think of some selfless kind gesture you can do for your spouse and when you get a warm response, note if that makes you feel warm in return. If you are thinking negatively....think of those thoughts as a cassette and push the stop button. Say stop out loud if it helps. Then put a different tape on, one that will build your marriage. Think one kind thought about your spouse, or perhaps a happy memory. Be open and honest, but refuse to let things esculate into a lovebusting episode. If your spouse is venting, don't be defensive, just let him/her feel. Be kind and patient, bearing with one another in love.<P>It's OK to stumble, and sometimes we fall, it is just not OK to lay there too long. Accept where you are, but don't accept the idea that it is OK to stay there.<P>So yes, it is tempting to manipulate, and it may bring short term leverage, but in the long run, if we want healthy marriages, we need to use all of communications to positively affect the outcome.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Dear Tired Lady:<BR>At first, for the first week and a half I kept throwing it up and turning things around on him. I'm a perfectionist at that one. I do that quite well and he agrees with that one. But after that, I decided that I could no longer keep doing that if I was going to move on with my life,...whether with him or not. If I was going to try in the marriage, bringing that up is not the answer. As a matter a fact, it only creates tension and negativity and then the focus is on the affair he had, instead of building/repairing the marriage to make it better. He knows he messed up. But, if he says he is willing to work on the marriage, how long should he pay for his mistakes? I will not forget my husbands affair. But, I will go on and not keep bringing it up. I am only human and will do that every once in a blue moon. She is meaningless. For me to keep bringing his affair up, I am giving her meaning in my life. She means nothing. Therefore, I don't dwell on the affair or her. I just know that if it happens again, it's over. There is no more trying, seconds, crying, pleading, etc. This is why I don't bother with it. It's too time consuming and to much of a negative thing for me to keep carrying around.