I am new here. I am a WW. I read "Surviving an Affair" and really identified with Sue. I am so lost. I had a PA with a coworker for over 2 years. His wife discovered it and he sent me a NC letter a few days later. We have since talked and are back in an EA.

I still have deep feelings for OM - this is the "fog". However, I have no feelings for BH. And the thought of trying to fix things with him depresses me so much. I am literally sick when I think of talking or getting close to him. He doesn't know my needs because I haven't told him. But I don't want him to try because I don't think he'll be able to meet them the way I want them met and I am not attracted to him at all right now. Yes, I am being selfish, but shouldn't I be selfish about getting my needs met the way I want them?

Logically, I understand the whole program in MB, but I just can't bring myself to do it. I don't feel anything for BH other than a sense of responsibility. No physical attraction or desire to want to connect with him. Can MB make a passionate marriage out of 2 strangers?

I know I should be willing and enthusiastic to do whatever it takes to rebuild my M. But I really don't want to. Love bank is all fine and well, but (in my current state) I just don't believe how we could ever get that balance restored when my heart just isn't in it.

I just want to be happy and be excited about my future.

I realize it could be the addiction/fog telling me OM and I could be very happy, but it feels so real. He and I aren't bad people. We made a mistake and now have to deal with the consquences of it. Problem is, we fell in love. Now what? How do I know if my marriage will ever make me as happy as my relationship with the OM?

We started MC, but the counsellor quickly ended it and suggested we each get individual counselling. He is now my counsellor and says that if I only want to try to fix my M because I think I "should", then there is no hope. And the fact that I don't want to and have no desire to is a dead-end. He says I can't get that desire if it isn't there already.

He says I am done in my M and to start facing that reality, but I have MB saying it is fixable. I don't know who to believe. How do I push through my revulsion (that's what it feels like) for trying?

My counsellor says I am battling myself - what I should be doing vs what I know makes me happy. It is making me depressed. My only reasons for staying and trying are out of fear of what will happen if I leave. Is that a good reason to stay? Shouldn't I stay because I love my H and want to be with him forever? Or it better to stay because I am scared of the work involved in rebuilding my life after I leave?

So, do I listen to this guy? My head says he is only telling me what I want to hear, yet this guy SEES me in my actual situation instead of offering anonymous and blanket advice. I have asked him to help me get past my lack of desire for fixing things, but all he says is that there is nothing to do. He is a really nice and smart guy, but I am questioning his guidance. I think I should look for a new counsellor, but I also think maybe he is right about me.

How old are you and your BH? How long have you been married? Have either of you previously been married?

Do you have any children, and if so, how old are they?

Does your BH or anyone else besides OMW know about the affair?

Wow, your post certainly brings up how affairs and marriage are treated in real life as opposed to the Marriage Builders way.

I am a WW and I can't speak to the effectiveness of MB because as of right now my BH isn't really on board with it yet and admittedly I'm not sure how I feel about it as well. Like you it is difficult for me to put effort into something I can't convince myself is fixable.

HOWEVER,

I will say this: you absolutely cannot make a rational decision with regards to your marriage while still carrying on an affair with the OM. This will totally cloud your thinking, make you rewrite your history with your husband and not allow your brain to function as it should.

Think back, why did you marry your DH in the first place? Do you have children? How long have you been married? Your OM is married and at least attempting to appease his wife by writing the NC letter so he has some investment in making her happy even if he is faking it.

There is so much to say but the vets will be on here soon and they can help you much more than I. My main purpose in writing is to warn you that they will be extremely tough on you. Remember many/most have been betrayed. They are trying to get through the fog. Please listen to what they have to say even if it is harsh. Even though I'm not fully doing the program many people swear by it and Dr. Harely's approach is different. Your counselor is interested in making you feel better NOT making your marriage stronger. He probably isn't a bad guy. He just doesn't realize you can do both.

Good luck to you, please stick around.

Your counselor is wrong.
He has no clue about how to save a marriage and rebuild passion for your spouse.

Get the book Surviving An Affair (either from this website or amazon.com)

Seriously consider, once you have read the book, spending $195 to cousel with a marriagebuilder coach over the phone....see the link a the top of this forum on the red stripe 'counseling center' for one on one direction to feeling positive about your future with your spouse.

Yes. To answer your question. You are getting bad (and typical) advice from your counselor. He's right in that he has no idea how to help you get the passion back in your marriage. Most counselors do not. That's why they have an abysmal success rate when it comes to saving troubled marriages. That doesn't mean it can't be done. It simply means that most counselors don't know how to do it. The Harley's have a great plan for restoring love and passion in troubled marriages. It has worked for a lot of people.

But right now, you are VERY foggy, and that fog will continue to cloud your thinking as long as you are in contact with the OM. I see a lot of rewriting history and other typical foggy lines of thought in your post. I can assure you that you have no future with the OM. Even if he were to leave his wife (and the NC letter he wrote to you is highly indicative that he has no intentions of doing so) and you were to get married, your new marriage would have a 95% chance of ending in divorce. Almost all affairages end in divorce, because they are built on a foundation of lies and deceit. Is that really the kind of relationship you want?

You can find those feelings of love and passion in your marriage again. It is very possible. But you have to want to. And it will not happen as long as you are lying to your H and are still in contact with your OM.

So, read "Surviving an Affair." Tell your BH what has been going on. Send him here so he can get the support he is going to need. Write the OM a NC letter and have no further contact with him. You have nothing to lose by doing that, since your relationship with the OM is doomed whether or not you choose to recover your marriage.

There is hope for your marriage, but you have to get your foggy little wayward head out of the clouds first.

Welcome to MB, I'm glad you decided to post.


OM obviously wants to restore his marriage or he never would have sent the NC letter. OM just thinks he can maintain contact in some way and still acomplish saving his marriage. It will only delay restoring the love he has for his wife and family.


Sound pretty normal to me. This won't really change until YOU are willing to maintain NC.


Yes, you can have a great marriage again. The MB program can facilitate this process.

I'll be back when I have a bit more time, but please take the time to answer a few of the questions that have already been asked.

I read that book. Up until the point where you start working on it, it was speaking to me. At that point, I couldn't identify any more. Sue "wanted" to work on it. I really don't. The idea of doing POJA turns me off. I don't want to do anything with him because I don't feel I'll get anything pleasant out of it.

BH and I are in late 30s. First marriage for both. We have 3 kids 9,7,5 (2 boys, 1 girl). The kids are the reason I didn't leave 2 years ago.

I married BH because it was a smart thing to do. He was stable and nice and I thought it was a good match. Thing is, I remember thinking in those early days that I was settling. I talked about it to friends. But they all agreed he was a great guy.

OM feels guilty and doesn't want to hurt his wife any more either (she knows about the PA). But he is in the same boat as I am and even wondering if he should end his M now and stop wasting her time. I am trying to look at my situation separately from his, but do agree that remaining in contact reinforces the feelings.

BH knows about the PA, but not about the broken NC and continuing EA. He wants to fix the marriage - getting divorced is not an option to him. He acknowledges and wants to work on things he did wrong in our marriage. I just don't care. God that sounds awful!!! He is a nice guy. But he does not get my motor going. Not just in a sexual way. But in life - he just doesn't excite me - never has (could be the rewritten history, I know).

I obviously married him and remember having fun. But I don't remember feeling as strongly for him as I do about OM. I am not attracted to BH. How do I get that? Things would be so much easier if I wanted to fix my M and be with him again.

I think you should be willing to lead your heart. Go NC with this guy. Immediately. Tell your BH everything. Give this program a chance. You have nothing to lose. If you try everything in here and spend the time together and work together following the guidance of the Harley's (all with complete NC adhered to) and things don't change. Re-evaluate. You have absolutely nothing to lose and everything to gain.

Would you say that what is best for your children is to have thier parents to be passionately in love with each other? Even if you can't see that happening right now, it is possible. Isn't it worth an honest attempt?

You will never be able to build passion for your H as long as you have any contact with OM.

Same for OM and his wife. Though, frankly that is zero of your business and OM'W would like you to bug off, evaporate and dissappear off the face of the earth, so just do so as far as she and OM are concerned, seriously.

Your H can get your motor going if you just stop your relationship with OM, start communicating what you want and spending minimum 15 hours a week with H, doing great stuff, avoiding lovebusters, and follow the MB plan.

You don't remember how it is you 'settled' for H. Most likely you did because he is a good catch and you knew it and the attraction to him would be great if you had to secretly plan rendevous with him that no one knew about and you had to try to hold on to him with new, exciting physical feats to impress him. Oh. How sexy that would be. (the allure of affairs is supposedly much based on this sneaking around stuff and the lack of commitment that allows people to be more experimental in their acts).

You do sound so very 'foggy' still.

First thing. Stop all contact with your OM, go through withdrawal and do some hard work and stop blaming your H for your lack of desire for him.

Well, I think those kids are more than a good enough reason to give your marriage a chance. Do you really think you can just divorce your H and move the OM in and everything will be just peachy king and wonderful? You're in your late 30's, so you really ought to know better than that. That's not how it works, and I think you know that.


This is typical wayward history rewriting. It happens all the time. It is a very common symptom of the fog. I'm sure you're convinced you didn't really love your H when you married him and that your feelings for him were never very strong. I doubt that's how you actually felt about it at the time though.


It sounds awful because it is awful, and somewhere in your foggy brain, you obviously know that. You have a H who is willing to forgive you for your A and who wants to work on your M, but you aren't even giving him a chance. He has expressed a desire to change and work on the problems in your M. Do you know how lucky you are? Many men would have simply kicked you to the curb. You have a man who wants to meet your needs and be a better H even though you betrayed him in the worst way possible.

Exactly. Compare with this:

"I am an alcoholic. I would really like to be sober. I wish I could enjoy a sober lifestyle, but right now it just has no appeal for me. I don't know what would make me *want* to stay sober. What can I do?"

"p.s. I am still drinking."

Athena, Welcome...

As long as OM is in the picture there is no hope for your M. He is the addiction. Why would you want to work on your M when you are still seeing the OM? You are in the fog and anything out of the fog that is not connected with OM you will reject.

I see in your profile that NC was initiated by OM and was broken by OM. You have a voice in this to say NO.

Do you think you are his soulmate, you both understand each other, no one else understands. Read enough of these treads and understand the wayward babble.

Does the OM have children? Have you thought about how it will affect them? Do you think they will be just fine. Read the threads here. Affairs destroy families. You are part of the destruction.

Are you the OM first A? Don't be surprised that there might have been others. As long as you are seeing OM he will not work on his M. Does his wife deserve this no matter what he rewrote about the history of his M.

Your A is no different than any of the ones that are listed here. Most end within 2 years after ruining everyone's lives.

Is it worth it to work on your M. Absolutely but get rid of the OM first.

OM only wrote the NC letter because his wife was pressuring him to. In that moment it was that or get kicked out. He didn't know what he wanted, so he chose to do it so he could have more time to think about it.

If OM and I were not already married to other people, our relationship would be applauded for how wonderful it is. We already practice most of the stuff on this site and are very good communicators with each other. We have had an EA for over 10 years and it has been PA for 2. I feel sometimes like he's been there throughout my entire marriage and I didn't realise my marriage had never met my needs.

How do I stop comparing BH to OM? NC .. I get it. But will the comparisons ever stop? Will I always think of what I am missing? BH can try really hard and change a lot of things, but he cannot BE OM. Can he change his body, his scent, his eyes, the way he carries himself? Yes, this sounds unbelieveable shallow and I know that. But if I don't have an emotional connection to him AND I don't find him physically attractive ... what do I do? I can't talk to him about this. I have hurt him so much already that laying the physical attraction thing on him seems so incredibly terrible.

I am a FWW, and I can only say one thing right now:

Get away from the OM. You don't care about yourself or your own M enough to fix it....that is your choice. But you are ruining another person's marriage. You are destroying other people's lives. Stop. Now. Get away from the OM.

Adultery is wrong. period.

Tell him. He deserves the chance to make this decision with FULL information.

I find the "addiction" part so demeaning. Please don't flame me for saying that. I know I am no angel and have been disrespectful to my marriage and my husband. But I have a hard time believing that my friendship and PA with OM is just an addiction.

Would it be called an addiction if I loved my husband in the same way?

You would not be demeaned for loving your husband, no.

I really do get what you all are saying. I just don't know how to get through NC and withdrawal AND get some kind of feeling going for BH. It seems so hopeless. I can look happy on the outside, but not on the inside. And even if I tell him what I want, what if he can't meet my needs?

Seriously, I almost lost my lunch when I read this. If you think that anything you are doing with the OM even comes close to following MB principles, then you obviously have absolutely NO idea of what MB principles are.

What if I married the wrong person and now want to correct that oversight? Or is that option gone because I committed adultery and no longer deserve to be happy?

Sorry - just venting here. This is so emotionally exhausting!