I think you need to find a caretaker. Every time you get around him, you seem to lose your objectivity and wonder what happened. I don't know why that is, I just worry about you, and we can't be there to clarify things for you when you have to deal with him.

First of all, would you like to know what is happening with him? I can consult the crystal ball, and make a few guesses based on what I see, but know up front it only a guess about what he thinks, and you should be concerned for what he does.

OK.. well, he met you a few years ago, and you had both an dream of a family and were a responsible girl who seemed very understanding and sweet. He was also attracted to you, and you to him, so things got seriuos, and you shared heartaches and fears with each other, slept together, and eventually thought marriage was the place to go next.

He, seeing that you wanted the better things in life, and your desire to nurture and work for those things, believed it was what he wanted/needed at the same time. You were not pushy and demanding, but yet someone who seemed to understand and have compassion about who he was, and what he has gone through. You also did not make any demands or have any expectations of him except that he love you.

It was a dream come true for him. This beautiful girl let him do whatever he wanted to appease his own insecurities and ego problems, with only a occasional whimper about her life. He enjoyed the power, and felt like he was home.

You, living in hope that what you did would be appreciated, and that what you gave would come back to you in the form of someone examining himself and changing, wiated for it to happen, as he spun his wheels trying to fill a need inside that ate at him. He knew he should be doing something for you, and he thought he was, because you stayed and provided the framework for relationship, a couple human beings living together, and that is all he ever had, so it was normal for him. See he has been used to that as a child, and that is home to him. He thought his change from doing drugs and chasing women was a great sacrifice, and that was all he knew he had to bring to the relationship for now. He thought he was doing nothing wrong, and doing all he should, along with doing what he wanted, and ignoring your pleading to spend more time with you, and build a relationship. He didn't have a clue.

You, well we have covered that allready what happened and why you didn't clarify what you wanted, and also why you probably had little respect for your marriage because you never recognized or were shown a good one. Also the way you react or implement your personal rerlationships shows that you are just as confused as he is, but in a different way. We can go into that later as to why, but just for clarity now lets say that.

When you had the affair he felt betrayed. The relationship he had gotten so used to and grounded him somehow was now revealed in his mind as allways being a lie, and his inner security issues took over again, and he got mean and selfish. Cut his own throat, started drinking and using women again, because that control is all he trusts. He got scared and its as simple as that, but hey, Men aren't scared are they, he had something to prove again. When he did his self assesment when he got insecure, scared, afraid,(whatever buzzword and politically correct term you wanna use) he could no longer say, "well at least i have a women at home who loves me, I must be doing something right". That turned out to be a lie.

So the self respect you gave him, which he had not yet earned BTW, was torn away by your A. Its OK harmony, it was not real anyways, he needs to get it for himself now, without you as an excuse as to feeling how he does, just like anyone, who learns that they can't blame anyone for thier actions, when its time to grow up.

So what about the Plan B letter? Your time left with Dad? WH has chosen to be in his version of freedom and sublimation of things that allows him to avoid the things he needs to address, and in that emotinal response, He procrastinates because he feels like it. He won't try to change until looks past himself, and where in his life does he have an example of that? When he comes to the end of himself, maybe he will search for some help.

You need to get him that letter, and go dark Plan B. You both need to learn how to take care of yourselves alone first, before you can take care of each other. Then if you want to take on the challange of marriage, which you might at that time respect the depth of it instead of using it as a utilitarian way to get what you want, the tools are here, in the bible, in the wisdom of those who are working and fighting for it too.

Whats going on with him? He is going though withdrawl from his enabler, you. With his habits and mind-set, it was inevitable.

What going on with you? You are bouncing back from a relationship that had some very real problems, and also learning, I hope, that it is a good thing you can never go back to what it was. I think you want to go back, and would take him back without demanding the work needed. So I really only am worried you will accept that, and not get a better life.

I think your Dad is worried about that too. Make a letter, show it to Dad, and DON'T ANSWER WHs CALLS!! Every time you see him you come here wondering what happened, and in the post is the statement that you felt like he was getting upset, and that is why you did....(whatever). Do you ever get mad at yourself? When are you gonna let something outside of your emotions and your interpretation of love help you?

Like they say in AA, and I quote this from Melody lane, "Your best thinking got you here". You don't have a H you can believe has your best interests at heart anymore. You have a Dad but right now you can't worry him more with involving him in this turmaoil, you need to show him you will be alright and you are making good decsions. Why not trust God, or if that is to heady and confusing for you, trust the people with success in thier marriage. I don't mean they have lots of money and everything looks good while they are living separate lives from there spouse, while living together either. Trust these people here, and the disciplines you KNOW are what you want in a marrige that Hr H has laid out so creatively in his work. Then DO them

Oh no! Can't do that! Harmony only has value based on what she does for others. Putting herself first? Well that is just selfish! What does that mean anyways? Catering to every emotion? Finding another Man and more busy work in putting on the fig leaf to hide the shame of failure?

I bet your an excellent employee Harmony, and we all see your potential. But what did JL say about potential? You should read that again. Mindshare hit the nail on the head about the "hook" of abusive relationships, I know because my late wife abused herself, and everyone around her, masking it as her right. I was stuck because I could not leave my children in that tinderbox, and secondary was my own comfort and marriage.

I lived that hell, and when my DD was 2 left for two years and told her it was over, even though she was pregnant for my son when i did. Late wife thanked me after, even though she still relapsed because I didn't stay strong enough in my demands for her to go to AA, and she thought it was some supernatural continuation that brought us back together. She left God and his people at AA out of the equation. A aquaintance of mine who is in AA and is a leader says" Anything is possible with God and the twelve steps". He says you need them both, well of course.

When I was in my separation I still loved my wife, I still missed her and what i saw good in her, and I also wanted to help her. Hell I still miss her and what at times was good in our life. She was a very complex woman with many gifts and had a great amount of compassion. That was her gift, and her undoing, because others would use those things she would give, and tell her how wonderful she was, untill she found her identity in helping others, and never helping herself. Then when anything scared her, she would run back to look for attention and drink to fill the emptiness that was now a gaping hole that was created from the idolization she once recieved.

If I had MB and the support I believe I would have made better choices, if i would have listened, that might have saved my wifes life, rather than just the marriage. I would trade her life for our marriage any day, the marriage just wasn't as important as her life, or the loss my children have had to suffer. It doesn't matter if she found a life with someone else, at least she might be alive, and conquered her addiction.


Why do you think I am posting to you? I want to help you and your WH avoid that kind of misery. If I had the support of MB when I was separated I would have really taken care of myself better internally as well as physically. It wasn't enought to escape the drama back then, I needed to accept that I could not help her, and i was an enabler by accepting the behavior. That is all I learned and I fell short of taking care of myself. I should have insisted on more before I came back, not just the promise of a dry drunk who still had a lot of emotional problems. True she acted better, and was healthier, but just below the surface the insecurity was still there, and she refused to see it, because her gifts hid it, and she could pull a rabbit out of a hat and had smoke and mirrors, and a lot of words, being idolized replaced being honest and accepting she had weaknesses.

Hiya Constant

I want to be clear that I am not interested at taking him back at any cost, it will be a disaster and I will be unhappy.

I have not done anything wrong today, I was merely took the opportunity to speak to H to see where he was at, as per JLs suggestion. I needed to know what was going on.

As it was he is no further forward, still full of anger towards me, still blames me for everything, still full of self justification, and still no commitment to recovery and no contact with other women, in his words today 'they offered him more support that I ever have'. It was all woe is me, feel sorry for me me me, its all your fault.

People ask why he has this hold over me? I find him intimidating and try to keep the peace instead of standing upto him I suppose, and I don't like to see people in distress. Call it what you like, but I don't think that is a bad quality. At the end of the day I want him to be ok too.

Where I am now, is that I am going to go back into Dark Plan B with the intention of filing for D.

My H is so far away from being honest with himself and others, it could take him months to realise. I can't wait that long. That is me being 'selfish' now

I love him but I can't change him, and I can't put my life and my desire on hold to have a family any longer.


Harmony

This is a very sad statement Harmony. It's all to common with people that have been abused. Wouldn't you just love to have a relationship with someone that cared for you and viewed as an equal partner and NEVER intimidated you? Because, that is possible in your future.


Nothing wrong with this quality. In fact, none of us like to see you in distress which is why we are taking time from our busy lives to post to you and try to help you.



This is good Harmony. Personally, I don't see why you wouldn't just file immediately and get this process going. There is a new life waiting out there for you.


Amen to this sister!! Couldn't agree more!!

So get on with it!!!

Harmony,

I am not telling you to go back, but I am telling you that you have not told your H the truth and you have not explained to him your thinking. This is bad for him and for you. He may be abusive, but he is also deeply hurt and confused.

You said


See the last quote? Notice that I bolded this quote? If a BS came here and said what he said, that BS would be getting all sorts of help although we would all know he is not and could not be a perfect man. He equates sex with love, and so do you or the OW wouldn't bother you so much.

Harmony, no matter your decision on your H, you need to learn something or develop it further, it is called empathy. I know every one is "dump the bum", but you started this mess with YOUR decisions.

There is not painless way to end a marriage, but there are better ways than others. You two need to talk and I mean really talk. Do it someplace "safe" a restruant or something, but do it. He needs to know how you feel about his behavior and he needs to know that you acknowledge that you messed up and he has every right to interpret your actions as those of a woman that "loves" an OM. If you end it, do it by talking even if he doesn't want to hear it or you don't.

He has stated that he cannot get over it. Fine, then end it, but end it with a discussion of what went wrong. You both share in the "what went wrong" part and perhaps you will both learn something from this that will help you.

Please think about this...carefully.

God Bless,

JL

JL

I wasn't expecting that.

I don't know what to say, I can't cope with facing him and getting more rejection. I love him, I messsed up = he doesn't want me.

I can't sit in front of him and hear it again. He said he can't get over it, I can't be near him and him not want me again. I told him today how much his treatment has hurt me.

I did empathise and he walked all over me.

Can you exaplin why if he cannot get over it, then how come he won't leave me alone? Is this a sign I should not give up? He is so angry with me.

Thanks as ever for your ongoing support and advice. I just need to understand thats all.

Harmony

I struggle with saying that. If I admit to that, then he will believe that.

Harmony,

I know you weren't expecting that and that is the problem. It is easy for folks to say Plan B and/or divorce, but... what if you don't want the marriage? Why plan B? What do you hope to accomplish in plan B,that your H become a mindreader? What if he gives up OW or OWs for you, is that going to be good enough? And yes he is still contacting you because he doesn't know how you see things NOW. If he knew then he may well just leave.

You said Who said anything about rejection. I said talk with him about how YOU see things. I said for you to have a conversation with him about you, your life, how you see him, and what you feel about his actions. He needs to know these things and YOU need to say them. As it is you are just running.

This conversation has nothing to do with reconcilliation, it has to do with he hearing from you your thoughts and your view of things. You have heard his as you posted and as I quoted earlier. But, I will say his points are the ones that many BS would list as well.

Harmony, you have your boundries, but do you have your intestinal fortitude (guts)? You need those to live a good life as well.

The answer to why he cannot get over it is but still contacts you is simple and he is angry, is simple.

He is angry because he is deeply hurt. He cannot get over your betrayal for the reason he is having a hard time letting go...he loves you. But, Harmony, often love is not enough.

You may love a drug addict but the addict is still addicted and will do what an addict does.

It is not for me to say if this marriage is over, but I would guess it is because you really don't want to be married to him, and yet you love him. He cannot handle what you did and yet he loves you.

Hence my statement that you two need to talk, not for reconcilliation, but for closure on what is hurting you both, what you think of each other, of how you have grown and learned, of your new boundaries and how they will not allow you to live with the H you had.

At that point, you can leave. You have communicated with him and told him of your love, your boundaries, and what you expect from live. He has already told you most of this, but you need to hear the rest and then you will know you have made the right decision no matter what it is.

Harley states in his books that he believes in POJA even when divorcing. He states even a divorce should be POJA'd.

I hope this clears up the confusion. You are strong enough to do this, you just need to see what we see.

God Bless,

JL

I touched on that a few times harmony, and JL saw to that you had a hard time communicating very difficult things early on in your posts. Others have also just plainly said, "Do this or that" and have been frustrated when you didn't, thinking you might not be seriuos. I thought you were just scared and in a habit of avoiding these things, and I still think that.

You must end this right, if that is your choice, and it is possible, with some help from friends. It is for you too, that you do this right, and open, and honest without fear and intimidation. You don't have to be careful of his emotions or reactions, if you write down what you want to say, and either have sombody be thier with you as you read it, (like in a restaurant with your friend a couple tables away), or if you have a good friend who can speak for you when you start to clam up, maybe they could be do it for you when you froze.

Am I right about that? Does your mind just go away and your thoughts change to fearful things in situations like this? Do you start on a conversation path and find yourself reacting to what you think he is thinking? Are you performing? Are you scared? Its OK, I do too.

If I find it important what they think and thier reaction to what I say might cause problems. I try to be fearless and say what is on my mind and let it lie there even if it is uncomfortable, but many times they don't see my point of view, and an argument brews in front of my eyes, then I try to explain more than is nessesary to not be misunderstood. Its normal when you are rattled and afraid, but its not the ideal situation to communicate, and its intimidating. It also can get you sidetracked and you can forget to cover other important issues, especially if it turns into an argument.


Speaking spiritually, I feel Satan is the author of fear and doubt. If there was anything that effected me extremly as a child, and even as an adult to some degree, it would have to have been unrealistic extreme fear. The people who propagated it and fed it did not conspire together to lay it on me, but its effects seemed that way sometimes, and I had trouble beliving there was a God who would allow it. Then one day it dawned on me after I had conquered some childhood fear at 17, and i wondered how I could have been so fooled? I realized it was something meant to ruin my life, and it may have come from treatment from others, my misunderstanding, and imagination, but it really for a time did parylyse me and seem unsurmountable. I wondered where it came from, even if people did not feed it knowingly, it had the power to destroy me if I let it, and it was my biggest enemy. It was spiritual, emotional, and invisible. I thought of who and why did it get a hold of me and why did I let it make me miserable and almost kill me, and I thought of Satan. It was the only answer to what existed in man that I fell victim to, and why other would use it also to attack and use me if they could get away with it and justify it somehow. It wasn't those people who I was once afraid of and thier ignorance and selfishness that was powerful, unless I gave them the power, they had none. It had to be something malicious that was intent on destroying me, but gutless to ever show its face, and it exsisted mostly because I allowed it to.

There is somewhere said in scripture that one day when we are in heaven and Satan is cast down into the lake of fire, we will look at him and see the little worm he is, and say, THAT?,is what I was afraid of?! From my life and the point of view I had at that time, I totally understand that

I am telling you this because I understand how deadly unfound fear is, and how it will destroy your life and happiness if you let it.

There is a saying in MB, "Your marriage can survive an argument but it wont survive if there is an affair partner" They are talking about "ongoing" affair partners, and many marriages have survived and with work have thrived after affairs. Being afraid of conflict is like being afraid of life and learning. I just don't know what it is your afraid of, and how to help you see that the fear is gonna win, if you don't get angry enough to fight it. Many times that happens in life, and we fear things that are allready gone, or make them bigger than they ever really were.

He needs this Harmony, and you do too. The plan B letter that we have been talking about well maybe he won't throw the next one away. In it will be a lot of answers for him, and you will never regret being honest. You mentioned understanding where he is coming from, but I think it is more important to understand how to express where you are coming from, without fear or getting sidetracked.

Thats what plan B letters are famous for and I think you still should write him one again. Face to face is gonna be hard no matter what, but the letter gives you something to talk about and is grounding for you.

There is allways hope for reconciliation, but I am concerned because you have talked in extremes since you came, and it was allways, "should i get a d and move on?" or asking "what is going on with him?" It seems open and honest communication and POJA has allways been a problem with you two. Each living in thier own world and trying to make it with someone they didn't really know. This action of communicating with each other is at the core of relationships, and what we miss most when we had that at one time, and it slips away somehow. The sex just is an extension of communication, but when we lose fidelity also, where communication once existed, the pain and frustration is the most you will ever feel. Its like God and everything He represents has been torn out of you.

If you allready decided to get a D, then at least give him something to work with as he processes that.

See, we all would like to avoid the drama of you getting to this point before reconciliation, if it was going to happen.

Thats why we said "Good plan B letter, Dark plan B with no contact at all" It was supposed to simulate what it would be like if it went to divorce, and get him to take you seriuosly about working on the marriage. But for whatever reason you didn't see the wisdom in what we said, and you let him have contact and come over, and throw his fits.

When Scotty said "your plan B is so full of holes" she was making an attempt to help you see it also.

Now he is not gonna have a letter with your mind, thoughts, and feelings to referance, or any conditions and direction for him to follow, even if he just wants to figure out where he went wrong, so he can have some peace later in life. At least give him the straight story out of your mouth, although it wont be as much help as it would if it was written out for furthur referance.

My heart hurts for both of you. I truly hope you take what JL and I agree with about this seriuosly. Sure I will be upset with you if you don't, but mostly because I see things ending badly for you too. If you don't learn how to communicate what you think and feel in these situations. Now or in the future, there will allways be something hard to say to someone, but you must say them, if you truly care about them, good or bad. The truth works.

Its allways darkest before the dawn, and your dawn is coming, I hope for your H too.

Harmony,

This is about your growth. You cannot be a good woman, a good wife, a good mother, if you are not strong enough to face life. You do this on your own a few times and you will appreciate a partner that will stand with you. In fact, you will insist that your partner is willing and strong enough to stand with you.

Time to stop running, time to start communicating. You can do this.

God Bless,

JL

Aint that the truth.

I was re-reading and I came upon this. I was thinking, is that an example of you being responsible for his interpretation of what is real? or what to feel?

Just wondering and food for thought.

Hi Guys

Yes I will face the situation and arrange a meet up in a suitable place before I make a final decision, and discuss everything you said. I have a feeling it will fall on deaf ears. The reason it will fall on deaf ears is because if it is not what he wants to hear, he doesnt want to hear it at all. He finds it difficult to see others point of view.

Thing is, this has been going on for 20 months now, since I first had the A, which lasted 6 weeks, from me leaving the house until me coming back and begging him to take me back which took 6 months for him to let me move back into the house.

I have had more peace in the last 6 weeks, in a way I think it is better that I am in Plan B hearing the news about my Dad, rather than H being here offering me little support and making a point of not offering me any because I don't deserve it.

The last 18 months since I left have been hell. The last 8 months since he found out the real reason I left last year (the A) have been more so. The most painful of all of this, was him 'punishing me'. He wanted to see me suffer. He made me watch him come and go with not 1 but 4 OW right in front of my face. That is 4 OW that I know about, you can probably double that.

The pain he inflicted on me having to watch him pack a weekend bag to take OW3 away to a romantic hotel. The pain of seeing a hotel bill for an overnight stay at a hotel round the corner, when he told me he had been to see his brother in London for some 'time out' because he was suffering from stress and anxiety due to the A, and then lay in bed whilst I comforted him, when in reality he had been up all night humping OW4 so wanted to sleep. The pain of not knowing whether he would come home at night, so I stayed awake until he walked through the door. The night when he went missing before I started my job, and when I went out of my mind with worry that he had done something 'stupid' because of his state of mind, and when I managed to call of his friends and track him down and when he came home at 1am was happy and grinning because it showed I cared because I was worried about him. That was also when OW1 had phoned me, because my H was her bestest friend and she was worried about him. Whilst he stayed out when I had made him dinner, at the pub with OW2.

Maybe too much has happened for either of us able to forgive. Maybe that having this time on my own I know that I don't NEED anyone and I will actually be ok. I could forgive him, if he accepted where he messed up. I can't go back with me taking the blame for everything.



I want to have a great M and happy relationship, I cannot have that with H, if all he is willing to do is give up the OW and come back home. I would want him to be remorseful for the pain he inflicted on me, I would want him to commit to a monthly session with SH and I would want him to seek IC for anger and why he cannot demonstrate that in a constructive way.



I wouldn't say I am running, I just feel that it is a waste of my time where I will just get dragged down again with all my shortcomings. I will do it ofcourse as it will be good for my growth process. If I feel like I talking to a brick wall what then? Do I just get up and walk away? If it is not what he wants to hear, then he doesn't want to hear it all. He is not interested in my 'growth' or 'learning' or 'boundaries' he laughs at all that.



Yes I would like to think it is because he loves me, but it is hard to believe that. I would like to think that but more often than not, I feel he is angry because I messed up and ruined his 'perfect life' for him, I am an embarassment to be hidden away, that he is more worried about what other people think.

[quote=ConstantProcess]

When Scotty said "your plan B is so full of holes" she was making an attempt to help you see it also.

[quote]

I think where I got confused about Plan B, was the advice I was getting here and from SH. I told SH that I was advised to change the locks and block his number and he said to leave it and not do anything more.

I am disappointed that I sound negative about H right now, but I think I am feeling very angry. I will cal him to arrange a meet up, I will make sure I am feeling more positive by then!!

Harmony.

I guess that is where we/i struggle. For example, I will say to him I didn't leave the house for OM, I left because I knew I had messed up and by having strong feelings for someone else must mean ther eis a fundamental problem with the M. Then H, will go know H you left because you wanted to be be with OM. Well no I left because I felt that there was a fundamental problem with the M, and that it couldn't be fixed. I will tell him that til I am blue in the face and he won;t have it.

Thanks Constant

Harmony

Oh Boy!

Harmony I have a lot to tell you and I'll start with: YOU ARE NOT A VICTIM. So stop acting like one! Got that?

Let work through what you said: Good this is what you should do.

And you care because? Frankly, you don't care if it falls on deaf ears, and that is the point. Do you want to remain with a man that is deaf to you? Do you want to have input into a relationship you have with a man? You are going to tell him how you feel, what you have learned, how you have changed, and what you expect from him (boundaries). This is NOT a debate, it is a statement of fact on your part. You then should listen to him. If you don't like what you hear and he seems to not consider what you have saidFILE FOR DIVORCE. Life really can be this simple, IF you become an adult about this.
Ok, forgiveness is for you to give to move away from where you are. Forgiveness does not mean this marriage works or won't work. You can forgive him for everything he has done, and still not want to be married to him. He can forgive you for you're affair and still not be able to live with it. Forgiveness is a good thing. Put in mathematical terms it is a necessary but not sufficient requirement for recovery.
Tell him that. It is really simple.
Then you should not be married to him. Find a man that actually cares about you and YOU actually care about. You don't like your H much do you?
This like many of the statements you have made is a DJ. You don't know how he feels you just know how he acts. Further, if he did not care he wouldn't still be hanging around. You can end thatfile.

Harmony, you keep waiting for him to decide, and yet it is YOUR decision. You talk with him and if you get answers and responses you don't like, then leave. Your job is to change your perspectives, your boundaries, your approach to life, not his. That is his problem.

God Bless,

JL

Yeah, I understand, pretty soon both of you are trying to repair the other ones misguided and screwed up soul, and you don't trust them either. Who is gonna set the standard for what is important and real? That is a question both of you cannot really answer, and so you try to answer them, but the other insists you don't know anything. So it becomes a foolish battle of maybes. Maybe I can try this and maybe if I can calm him down or maybe if we can think this way...and maybe if I insist it is my way, and I have the REAL brains and intuitivness, I KNOW what is REALLY going on. So you both are trying to make life your individual version of how you see it, so you can have some control as to what to do now.

I have lived that for years in the absence of good solutions to problems, and it comes from desparation in yourself more than what they do.

I hope you can hear what I am telling you in that. Its easy to say, but hard to explain, and you have to get there in your own way, so you can truly own the victory.

I can say, and its true, "You cannot control what he feels and thinks or his actions", but until what he does is not as important as what you do, you will try.

Then there is the other persons story too, the wife who has problems with her Hubby who carrys her own little personal cross to "fix" him, while the husband does the same thing at the same time. Both are basically good people, and from thier point of view, or even who they confide in, they are right. But it was never about being right.

I was right that if my wife didn't see someone about her drug and alcohol issues, that if she didn't seek some emotional help for her problems, that if I was going to be the only one working and i had to watch her destroy what I saw her and I build in our children for years, that I would lose the ability to keep going, emotionally, which would eventually lead to physically, and I was already pushing that. I was right it would drag her down and make her sick again, and maybe this time take her life.

What in that, was right? My observations? The pure science and knowledge of her anatomy that I learned because, I was supposed to look out for her? How she needed more attention than normal because what was once something that helped her feel valuable, was now an addiction?, and she needed therapy about that.

I would have rather been wrong and have her still alive, saying I had no reason to leave, she was going to get straight eventually, and in denial still that she had issues. If I supported her and her new boyfreind, who also was a drinker, but...had money and said he would send her to a detox..well she might be alive today.

So why didn't I cut her loose again when she went back to the drugs? I did in 1986-88, Why not in 2001? In 1986 I still had a chance to make a life where I could afford to spend time with all the people I loved, and I had not completly engulfed myself with her problems with an attachment to them being my fault. Then I only had a small amount of history with her, and very young children, I still had a chance to have a life and let her figure out what she wanted for herself. In 2001 I had already lived that life, with my children, and she had traded all the reasons she drank,(history of how life treated her, parents, whatever), for what now was..The life I had not given her. To be fair, it only happened after she started to drink, and that only after she reached a turning point in her life where she needed to get help, and would not, again, still. I say that because when the behavior started, my kids didn't know this woman, it wasn't thier Mom. They had never seen this side of her, I was familiar with it. I stayed for the same reason I came back, to support the children while they had to deal with an emotionally damaged, and fragile mother. Wrapped up in that were my personal dreams she would work on her drug and emotional issues, and we could becaome closer as we aged together. Freinds who saw each other through and did not waiver. It was a good and righteous dream yes, and worth every minute of believing in, but in the end, I would rather she was alive and did not understand it, beacuse truthfully, I don't think she ever saw it anyway.

Sorry for the sad story, I said it to prove a point for you. You are in charge of your own life harmony, just as WH is in charge of his. If you wait for someone to make you happy you are setting yourself up for a fall. Yes someone can show you care and you can appreciate that, if you choose to, but happiness has a lot to do with acceptance of life and what you can make of it. Someone else will let you down if your dreams are all centered around them, but then again, that ends up being your fault then doesn't it? Especially if you reach to far, and expect to much, from someone that hasn't a clue to what you need.

Wants versus needs? Well that is mixed up in your own head as it is for everybody. Human nature is that we will call our wants needs if we can, and believe we need them if we are fools. But what we really need is to be satisfied with what we have at the moment, and appreciate it as part of life and how things are and work. Your marriage has some problems, Boundaries and healthy habits were not practiced, and even if you want it to work it will take change and work from both of you. If it doesn't work, you will have to adjust to the fact that both of you were to blame for the pain self inflicted and inflicted on each other. A marriage partner does not allow the other to hurt them or themselves, thats the deal, and God enforces it. Why do I say that about God? Because he wont let something exist that will hurt you, even yourself and your bad habits, and if you and WH aren't looking out for each other, He is still.

Sorry for the long post, hope it helps in some way.

Hi

I was angry when I wrote that post. Had further news last that Dad doesn't want to have anymore transfusions to sustain him so looking at maybe a few months or weeks.

I was angry when I wrote that post and maybe I am more angry at myself for creating this mess. It's such a difficult situation and I really don't want to feel extra pressure whatever happens. I think I just need to cone to terms with the news about my dad and when I feel calmer then decide what to do. I may ask H to contact Dad and put his mind at rest that whatever the outcome we will do it with grace. He is good like that.

Maybe next week I will be ready to face H, just not right now. I need to digest the news.

I love my H and I know I have the capacity to forgive but I don know I can do to calm his anger. I have tried everything. To be honest Dad is my priority right now.

Thanks so so much for your support.

Harmony

How can I thank you all for getting me to a place where I am coping with all this.

I just can't wait for that moment when things will get better I still believe they will.

My friend, who has problems of her own, joked that next year is our year!!

@Harmony -


This means that you are an thinking human being aware of the consequences of your actions. With this you can CHOOSE.

You get to choose everything about your life.

Hope your Dad is comfortable, and is at peace.

Hope you are too.