Long story short I hope lol

Found out about my H's PA we are struggling to get past it & recover.

Any hoo ..... My question is this what is a EA by MB standards?

The reason I ask this is several times throughout our 18 yr marriage. I would get more personal than proper with male friends.

There was no touching
There was no physical contact
I was never alone with them
But there was on occasion sexual inndeudo, talk of my marriage,friendship,flirting.

These always happened in the work place. So there was always people around.

I always kept myself in check with my personal boundry of I was married & you do not cross that line.

So were these EA's or more infatuation/crush with male attention ? The reason why I'm asking this is I feel like they were more infatuation/crush than a EA.

Regardless of what they were I see the dammage they have caused & my behavior was not proper.

But my H keeps bringing these up to justify his 4 yr PA he was having. And I know I sound childish when saying what he has done is worse. But I never had a emotional attachment to any of these men.

Yes, I enjoyed the flirting, the extra attention. But I always kept in mind if I crossed that line I was throwing my H & marriage away.

So again in MB standards what is a EA?

It's however your spouse defines it. He gets to define what constitutes betrayal.

An emotional affair is a romantic relationship. Flirting is not the same thing but is almost as offensive. And you need to knock it off. It is sqeezy to see married adults acting like that.

There is no justification for your H's affair. But he is right to bring up flirting because it is very offensive to spouses and is a huge lovebuster. Flirting is a form of courting that has no place in marriage.

None of your actions justify his affair. Period.

That's his sense of entitlement showing through.

Under no circumstances was he justified to have an affair. And until he fully understands this, he doesn't properly understand boundaries, affairs and recovery.

Your past improper flirtation, innuendo and boundaries with others is a separate issue you have to deal with and make right. It obviously caused/causes him pain.

"None of your actions justify his affair. Period.

That's his sense of entitlement showing through.

Under no circumstances was he justified to have an affair. And until he fully understands this, he doesn't properly understand boundaries, affairs and recovery."

Yeah that.

There's flirting and flirting. People joke and interact with co workers, it's normal.

So I say flirting if just to keep things fun and ocassional is one thing.

Though flirting on a daily basis, needing wanting it every day, from a certain person using it to fill needs not being met by ones spouse, are all bad signs/red flags.

Then as a predator tool to move a relationship from co worker to EA to PA. Unfortunately things had slipped to far down the slippery slope by then.

Oh, my goodness.

Flirting is NEVER acceptable conduct for a married person! Flirting is a form of courtship, it is a testing of the romantic waters! No no no!

My FWH's A starting out as flirting. He thought it was harmless, and did it 'for fun.' Yeah, it was fun, alright. We're healing from all that 'fun' now.

Here's the yardstick for 'joking' in the office: if you would say it to a same-sex co-worker, it's okay to say to an opposite sex co-worker.

huh? Flirting is completely inappropriate and unprofessional in a work environment. My coworkers and I joke around all the time, but we don't FLIRT. There is a huge difference! Flirting is a form of COURTING and is always the first step in an affair.

What is an Affair? by Steve Harley is an official Marriage Builders article that addresses this question.

It's not the most straightforwardly written, though. Short story: like all love busters, an affair is pretty much defined by the victim.

Trust me, I absolutely get you, and I get Melody, too. Hello; see the sig line.

However, I also understand what Road is saying. Quite simply, he is saying there is "flirting;" laughing and joking, and having fun with coworkers, and then there is "FLIRTING;" where the jokes and comments cross lines and boundaries. For instance, when OM started with crap like; "If only you weren't married," and "I know the spots where the cameras can't see," and the oh so seductive "I have a storage unit a few blocks away..."

THAT crap is different than "You work so slow, lol!"

Capice?

I think you are confusing 'bantering' with 'flirting'. The two are distinctly different, and while there is room for office banter, flirting is never harmless and is never acceptable. It is a form of courtship.

Flirt: to court triflingly or act amorously without serious intentions; play at love

Banter: an exchange of light, playful, teasing remarks; good-natured raillery.

Look at the difference. Flirting would not work with members of the same sex. Bantering would.

Flirting is never an acceptable action for a married person. Never.

A good rule of thumb: Before you say it, ask yourself: "Would I be willing to say this in front of my spouse?" If the answer is yes, it's probably banter.

Another good rule: Ask yourself, would I say this to my mother? My sister? If the answer is no, you're probably flirting.

And another comment: Why would an employee put another employee on the spot by flirting in the first place?? I've had a few flirtatious comments come my way in my workplace. They make me incredibly uncomfortable, and I'm no prude. I view those comments as unprofessional and as dangerous to me - I've gotten the impression that the person making them is testing my boundaries and have almost felt like they were predators. They insulted me by flirting.

Do you think this impression was what they intended? Why would someone be so audacious as to make flirtatious comments in the first place??

Flirting is always sexual. If you don't think so, when was the last time you flirted with one of your parents, or with a brother or a sister, or with someone you found entirely unattractive?

Flirting means showing a little sexual interest to see if you get a response. That's why a married person has no business in flirting with anyone other than their spouse - not if they want to keep the marriage.

Flirting is never "harmless" - not if one or both parties are married to someone else. If they are, it's insulting to their spouses and very damaging to their relationships.

Many marriages have been destroyed by what started as "harmless flirting". Mine was one of them.

I would define an EA as "allowing someone other than your spouse to fill your non-sexual emotional needs - needs such as conversation, recreational companionship, financial support, etc."

If someone is ignoring, lying to or avoiding their spouse in favor of letting another person fill their ENs as above, that's an EA.

Flirting leads to EAs, and EAs lead to PAs. Please don't go there. Divorce is very, very expensive in every way you can imagine.

Over the years, if it got to the point of one them making a outright remark or touched me improperly I cut them off & reminded them I was a married woman.

So I never let it get very far.

I do agree it doesn't matter how I consider it / it is how it has felt to my H.

I don't even vent to another male now because I now see where this can lead.

I do agree there is flirting & then there is banter. I try to only banter & it not go any further than that to the point of being stand offish with males just because I know of the patterns in the past. Without me even realising I was doing it.

I am aware I have this tendency so I stay away from it as much as possible. Since I am never going to find a job where there is never a intraction with a male.

So yes I am accepting blame & fault for this occurring.

So I guess when h keeps telling me I wasn't meeting his needs thats why he had a PA. I'm like well gee I guess you were not meeting mine either or I wouldn't keep doing this.
So yeah LB, blame shifter what ever you what to call me. But that is 1st thing that comes to mind.

I never blamed him for my flirting (as in well your not taking care of my needs so I'm behaving improperly because of it.) I just knew I kept doing it & didn't know how to stop it.

I do now STAY AWAY FROM MALES !!!!

I haven't asked yet, but I don't think my wife would want me bantering with a female coworker, either. I'll ask her to weigh in.

A lot of us get hung up on the definition of "affair". Teenagers love this kind of hair-splitting because it allows them to do something wrong without "crossing the line" and getting in trouble for it.

It's an emotional affair -- a "romance" -- the moment two friends admit romantic feelings of love for one another. You've definitely crossed the line to a physical affair the moment there is any sexual or romantic touching or kissing.

Dr. Harley defines an affair as a romantic relationship by someone who is married with someone to whom they are not married.

If your spouse is uncomfortable with what you're doing, it's time to stop until you arrive at an enthusiastic agreement with your spouse. If you've crossed either of the above lines, it's past time to stop seeing or speaking to that person in any context at all for the rest of your life.

I admit I'm biased. I don't want my FWH to banter.

For some, bantering slides into flirting which slides into...why take the chance?

I wholeheartly agree with you now MB after being on this site & what I have went thru these past months.

I work for a very small company, most of our clientle is males. That is just the industry we are in. It is a web,fax,phone,internet base company.

Rarely do I have a walk in customer.

Also except for 2 people everyone is married. This company is not as bad enviroment as my previous job because sexual content etc. is just not tolerated. So for the most part male flirting does not occurr. But I do work closely with these males because it is such a small company.

I have found to stay at my desk, if they or I need something make a phone call. Even if it is just a short walk to their desk. It does not give me a opportunity to linger & chat. That is how the others had occurred boring job so you chat to pass the time.

I do not linger & chat with any male over anything but business. Their personal life is their personal life. Mine is mine. We/I do not need to find out what we have in common with each other.

Now that this has been brought up banter will also be kept to a minium.

I will also keep your guidelines in mind. If I wouldn't say it to another female do not be saying it to a male.

I would much prefer my female coworkers think I am standoffish than think I am a nice guy.

In fact, I wouldn't mind if they found interacting with me slightly unpleasant. I don't want to be a jerk, but I would prefer to be utterly unattractive and not somebody that they want to spend a lot of time talking to.

This is so opposite from the way my husband and I used to think.

In the past I was flattered when other men found me attractive, outgoing and fun. For the past 3 years or so, I have changed my demeanor so much. I don't flirt like I once did, and neither does he. There's no need. I have no desire for other men to find me attractive.

My H is the only one who should have the hots for me.

I have been thinking about when it crosses the line into an EA. Of course flirting is not acceptable in a marriage. I have been flirted with and to be honest, it gave me the creeps. There was a time though, that through a chatline, I started what could have become an EA. I was heading awfully close to that line. So much so that I had a dream that the guy was satan. No kidding. I decided the next morning to stop talking to him. Then, I set my own EP of NO CHATLINES.

I think that when a "friendship" starts to impact the marital relationship, it can be considered an EA. If a spouse picks the "friendship" over the marriage and the feelings of their spouse, it is a PROBLEM.

Here is the link to Pepperband's thread about how adultery begins. http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...in=158589&Number=2305680#Post2305680

Obviously, once you get to step 13, you are in PA territory. See where flirting comes in? It IS one of the steps to adultery. Keep it out of your marriage and you will be protecting that marriage from possible adultery.

You know for years .... it was we are just FRIENDS !!!! But I do see how now it can & could be construed as a lot more.

After finding this site back last winter I caught myself starting it again. Reconized I was doing it again & put a stop to it.Before it got to a more than work related stage.

That's how I know keeping my hiney at my desk works. Proven method that wanting to visit quickly went away. To the point the male asked why I was being such a b*tch to him.

So yes this crap pops up all over. It is our place not to let this occur.