Hi Guys

My Dad is slowly detoriating now and probably looking at a couple of weeks. I spent the day with him yesterday which was lovely, hugged and talked. He is ready to go and is at peace. We even had some fun and laughs. I am scared, but through the strength I have found here and what I learnt I am being strong.

Dad asked me again if I had spoken to H, I told him the truth that I needed time to digest the news about Dad, so when I spoke to H i was in a calm place.

Thing is I truly love my H, but deep down I know that I have betrayed him, and sometimes it is easier for me when my H behaves poorly because then I can say, well look how he behaves why would I want to be with him anyway?! Poor I know, but otherwise it is too painful, to know that something I have done, has ended my M when things could have different.

You see when I spoke to my Dad yesterday, I tried to give him peace of mind that I do have concerns about being with my H. My Dad started to get annoyed with me and said, Harmony! Do you want to be with him or not? I said, yes. He said well then, go speak to him tell him how you feel and the rest will sort itself out. I suppose I may have over complicated the issue.

I know I messed up, yes he was not perfect my H, yes he was selfish and unsupportive and is emotionally a bit challenged (I mean that in the nicest way), but we enjoy our time together. We built the most amazing house together, been on the most amazing trips, we laugh so much, we tease each other and have fun, and we get excited about all the things we do in life.

I only wish that my H knew, the only thing I wanted from him, was HIM. Not the big house, the car, the clothes, the holidays, I just wanted his time and attention and care.

For many months I have never understood, why I had the A, and threw away my M. Anger is why I did it. A deep resentment had built up inside me about the fact that I had not been able to get pregnant, that my H did not want to go on honeymoon with me to save money, that all he wanted to do was focus on his business and give me scraps of his time, that he was on the look out for the next biggest house when I was happy in the small house we first had together, when I told him things he wouldn't listen, that he left me to organise everything the bills/holidays/nights out/wedding/dinner parties, that he never told me I was beautiful or looked nice. The problem is I never told him and the reason I never told him as I had a mindset that was if I had to tell him what I wanted that it was just not the same. He was never nasty or unkind or would have dreamt of cheating on me, just a bit poor on loving a woman!

I remember that the first time I slept with OM, whilst on the business trip, my H sent me a text asking whether I could get the Monday off when I returned from my business trip, and laying in bed with the OM, tears welled up in my eyes and I thought it is too bloody late! My H asked me to take the time off because he knew I had gone into some kind of withdrawal and he knew something was up.

I am sure we are both telepathic, I can predict the exact day he comes to the house!

So I will go and see him, with a huge amount of love and forgiveness in my heart and see what happens. Then I will make a decision, whether to go back into Dark Plan B or D.

I also know that it will only be when my H sees or hears that I am out with someone else or really out of the door, that he will come back to really talk. Not that I am going to see anyone else whilst I am still married, think I learnt my lesson don't you?

Harmony.

Hey Harmony,
Sometimes situations in life happen that put everything in perspective. I think your Dad's illness has been an eye opener to having last chances......I certainly hope he is at peace and that the two of you can really spend some great time together, he is your Dad and will watch over you Harmony it's his job and it's what he wants to do for you............
Be open with him, he knows you.........
I think part of having a great relationship with someone else is having one where you can say anything and be totally honest with your feelings, it doesn't matter what your husband will say or do, it's about you getting it all on the table and leaving nothing to chance.......
You can't control him but you can control what you do.........You have to stop doing the blame game about the affair and just accept that you are human and we all make mistakes...........
You go to him, tell him all you want and then you tell him you will not let this situation take anymore of your life...........You brush yourself off and start again on Harmony's life.........Your husband has to chose his own path, he knows what he should do, he now has to find his personal honesty and figure out how he will conduct himself from now on.......
Hang in there, You sound like you are changing inside and that is going to give you the strength to handle anything.....
Right now depend on yourself and spend lots of time with Dad........he is the man right now that loves ...................

Hiya Jessi

That was such a lovely post.

Knowing my father is at peace, makes me at peace. It is a strange time, one I have never experienced before, but I am doing ok. It comes in waves. I am more scared what it will be like once he is gone, you know what I mean? I have got so close to him lately. But I have wonderful family and friends who are there for me, and times like this make you realise what life is really about.

I called H lunchtime today, he hasn't answered. I left him a nice calm message saying "Hi there honey, hope your doing OK, just calling for a chat and to see how you are". I have had no response as of yet.

I am OK about meeting him, I have realised that I am prone to DJ's. I haven't really thought about what I will say, but I will tell him that I love him very much, acknowledge that I messed up big time, that how much pain I have been in the last few months with his disappearing off with OW and how I know I can forgive him, if he does whats needed, because I believe in him and know that he has wonderful qualities?

Question - Am I allowed to tell him he is a stubborn old mule, that needs to take up boxing to vent his anger and that there is a woman here that loves him more that anything in the world??

I am off to the works Xmas party, have a lovely weekend all. Its snowing here in England brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Harmony.

Sounds like you are in a better place. Yes I think you have learned a lot too.

Dad sounds like he knows you pretty well. How much time did you get to be with him growing up after parents split? If you don't mind me asking.

I really like Jesses post, and agree with it, and don't have much to add. Maybe its time to take things out from under the microscope, and see the big picture, even though the people in it have flaws.

There is the reason, why we trust in those boundaries, so we don't have to see the ugly truth about ourselves, at such a cost. Why we trust the wisdom of people who have been there, and don't want us to go there, and don't even want them to understand why.

I will bet you will do everything possible to help your future children to avoid such pain, and you will say such things as, "Because I said so", and "Because I am your Mother" as you will have learned how to trust them to something, beyond your experience also, and how painful it can be, when we take our lives in our hands, and ignore those disciplines that seem to be fencing us in, but are really there to protect us.

"Fools rush in where angels fear to tread". I think you understand that more than maybe you did before, and and I hope Wh does too. Now as your Dad says, tell him, communicate, and as jesse says, have the guts,(JL reference), to lay it all out on the table with WH, and work it out.

We are here for advice from an objective point, If any of us have two braincells to rub together for warmth, we all know we could also be in your sitch, as humans are falible.

We also know that without conflict and challange, nothing gets stronger or gains definition. Out of the boiling off of deception and lies we have bought, or want to beleive, that come from us falling into such a boiling pot as you have , comes truth and wisdom, and growth, if we look for it, and keep fighting for it.

Whether WH and you regroup immediatly and make a go of it, or whether the blame game still yanks you both around, this place will allways be here to help see through the fog and fear that effects you in the pain of rejection, or the separation in relationship.

The most perfect thing would be, that you and H come seek Dr Hs help, come here if you need to, and eventually are so busy living your lives together you only stop in once in a while to help others and give us updates.

But untill then, everyone is here as an extended family, and the people here are all seeking relationship, with the guidance and sometimes in the terms of 2X4s, to bring in the truth to us. Right where we are "at", at the time.

Go and work to put your Marriage back together if he will. and know that it is a journey, that will require care and guidance all your lives, and help too, How you proceed defines both of you.

Reminds me of that saying, "When the student is ready, the teacher will appear". I think you both are close to the point of being ready.

I know why he didn't return my call! Just seen H in the car with another woman. Ahhhh. Ok.

Spoken like a true wife.. Sounds like you will be giving him good advice too.

How did you see him... plan B??

Don't let his behavior effect you, as we have allready discussed, two wrongs don't make a right, and he is still reacting the only way he knows how.

Trust another guy on that. He has lost his "alpha male" status, and is trying to fix it with all these OWs. If I was as spoiled as he was by you, a successful attractive women whom he adored, and then the proverbial world I lived in was destroyed, I might have done the same at that age.

Just do a plan B for Gods sake, you aren't supposed to see him remember?

I wonder, was he laughing and having a great time with this woman?, or was he doing the sad sack rebelious, "My wife hurt me so much" combination boo-hoo and "Can I be your puppy now" act?

These women are also desparate being with a married man, and/or just playing a game and, he doesn't respect them either.

Just go to the party, and get outside of this for a bit.

Have a great time

I drove past him on way to Xmas party! He is full of chit! There is no one else Harmony!!

Harmony,
What are your thoughts right now?
I know that must have hurt seeing him with the OW.
You must remember he doesn't know what you are thinking and he is doing the only thing he knows how to do......
If he knew better he might be doing better.........
I think for your chance at moving on or fixing your marriage, you still have to put everything on the table and then it's up to him how he choses to handle that information, right now you have to do not worry about what he is doing and with whom, that is something that can't be changed unless he knows all the facts..........
Be honest, give him one last chance and then accept and move on or work together, honestly..........
I do think you can tell him anything you want in a loving caring way.......why wouldn't you say everything that is in your heart now, there is no need to hold back anything .............can you hurt anymore Harmony, I'm going to guess the answer is NO, so get it all out..................
This is the do or die part of this situation..........
You do your part that's all you can do........
I'm still hopeful, lost souls can come back to a great life if given an opportunity and they have the strength to take their chances...........

Crap, now shes heading to a Xmas party, where there are guys who have made passes at her, and she just saw her husband with another woman, and her Dad is about to leave this earthly place.

Can't think of a greater setup to screw up if i tried. Hope she stays strong, and has a real friend there she can lean on and will protect her.

Can anyone say.."Kobemurashi test"

Stay strong Harmony, remember the lesson you learned when you lost your temper before, and how it hurt you more than anything else.

Harmony,

Are you seeing why you need to talk to him. Your Dad is a wise man. A lot of learning from the school of hard knocks and experience.

Talk to your H when you can and then make your decisions. Just remember this talk is about what you want to say about yourself, not about how to fix H. It is his job to change and grow if he won't, then you two are not suited for one another.

Yes, you failed yourself, your marriage and your H when you slept with OM and yes you have to address that. But, have you addressed why you allowed this to happen? You should.

I fully agree focus on your Dad. Your time with him is precious. But, he won't really be leaving you, no he will be with you, in his words, in his actions, in your memory. You carry part of him with you from now on. You will have another voice in your head offering you advice.

Hang in there.

JL

Hope you were strong at your party, and had good time without any dramatic situations coming about from anywhere

TTYL

Hey Harm - Hi,

Have not been on here for awhile, but I wish you so very well. But, would you do something for for You - lighten up Harm.

I have not honestly had a chance to read your recent post - lokve over the past two months - but goddammne you seem to be getting wraped in your own underwear - so lighten Harm.

Char was here past three days for Thanksgiving here and so still busy. Had our son and daughter here last couple of days - our son lives in my town, so not such a big deal with that - but oh man the movies, photos, food, et. al., we did have a great time. I think we all of us deserved that.

Ya know Harm. I know that alot of good people are trying to day-to-day give you good advice. And again I thing you need to make your decision what you want to do.

I made a decision a month ago to start phyisical workouts daily ...well every other day now. That is a really a huge change for me. Ya know what that has included - arm curls with weights, leg calf lifts, pushups, triceps backlifts, leg lunges with weights, bicylces, ab cruches, etc. Do these every other day and my son is my monitor. Know what - I physically feel like I am age 40 and I am 68.

I am a firm beliver in that if change is necessary, the only individual who can do that is him/her. That is why I am doing the workouts.

At the expense of getting kicked out of here I will say that a couple of people who have been advising you seem to be keeping you in tow in terms of Their own opinions. I think you know who I mean.

You are a great person Harmony - no one here - no one at all - can or should attempt to sway you one way or the other. Yea, Learning seems nice, but, I think Learning is becoming caught up in his own underwear too! Harm, after 41 years of marriage Char and I are still together emotionally, as well as with our kids, and we had a Great Thanksgiving. (She snored one night and I did have to sleep in another bedroom).

Just simply, my best to you.

Tom

Harmony, I want to point something out to you: you have had a lot of loss lately.

You have lost:

1. Your H and the M you envisioned.
2. OM and whatever future you may have envisioned with him at the time
3. Your relationship with your mother and stepfather;
4. Are losing your father.

Some of those losses are good � you will create a healthier dynamic with your mom and stepfather, and losing OM is the only healthy choice for you.

But loss is loss. I fear you are very vulnerable right now to any male attention � notice on that list that the primary male relationships in your life have all been affected.

Remember that target on our backs we talked about a few months ago? I am concerned you might have one in blinking neon right now. The holidays are hard under the best of circumstances.

Be very mindful of your boundaries. You shouldn�t even be talking to men without several people present. Your EP�s need to be solid.

I�m not fussing at you or lecturing you. I don�t want to see you hurt again � holiday parties, wine, H with OW = recipe for potential disaster.

Hi All

My H called me back last night, and we chatted on the phone for about an hour.

We had a good talk, about the most progress yet. It was an adult conversation where we both clarified a few things with each other.

I spoke about how I acknowledged I was responsible for creating this mess, and that I hate to see him in pain that I have caused. H said that he didn't feel that I had done enough to win him back. I told him of all the things I had been doing and that I was at the end of my tether and what else could I have done? He went silent.

H then said that there were a couple of things that I had done in the last few months that had not helped matters.

I explained to him how much pain I had gone through in the last few months with him and OW, IB and constant disrespect. That I had to ask him to leave for self protection.

He did seem to listen to some of the points I had made and accept what I was saying.

I was a lot more vocal and assertive without being disrespectful.

H said that he was at OW 2 when I spotted his van there as he needed someone to talk to as he can't talk to his mum and dad. I said but it is never going to work if you are still in contact with the OW. The reason being is you had a sexual relationship with her and that will make me feel distressed and bretrayed again, and that it is not going to help him talking to the OW as the last thing that she will be concerned with is saving our M.

I told him how much I loved him and that I regret every second of the choice I made. H then went very quiet and said OK Harmony, but you do realise we probably need some time appart.

We agreed to meet on Tuesday for dinner. Not really sure what to make of the 'time appart' comment, but I guess I can clarify that when I see him.

I really feel that he does not want to get divorced, but don't feel as though he is commited to the M.

Hi Guys

I have a lot of fear going on at the moment.

Fear that my H is not going to support me with my Dad and I am not going to be able to forgive him for that.

I have some questions.

When I see him on Tuesday and he asks for time appart, do I tell him he either comes home and commits to recovery, or we end the M?

DO I tell him what I need from the M?

Do I not go to meet him and go back into Plan B? I would much rather he comes to me, asking to recommit to the M, and go into a serious Plan B, which is water tight.

Thanks guys.

Harmony, I�m a little unclear on what Plan you are in, possibly because you don�t have a Plan.

I will leave it to the experts on what to say, except for this: I think it is critical that you communicate that point about your father, either in person or in writing. You H has some amends to make to your dad � he may not choose to make them, but IMO he must understand the gravity of the situation and be given the opportunity to do the right thing. This isn�t a situation where H has the luxury of waiting until he feels like it.

I won�t go into the whole long boring story but this sort of thing MATTERS, pretty much forever. Not having one�s spouse�s support at the time of death of a family member is a very tough resentment to let go of.

Personally, I recommend you call SteveH again before you meet with H. STRONGLY recommend it. You have too many balls in the air to know which one to catch � I think SteveH will give you a script to deal with your H about your dad that will show both strength and vulnerability and impress upon your H that this is a critical time where H needs to do the right thing by your father, even if he won�t do the right thing by you.

Mind those boundaries in the meantime young lady.

{{{Harmony}}}

I feel that H is still in A I have no proof though. He tells me nothing is going on. If he is seeing OW whilst I am going through this with my Dad then j will NEVER forgive him. I do not feel like meeting him at all. I feel he is gaslighting me spoken like a true wayward I need more time appart!

Are you kidding? I just feel the love seeping out of me, wish I had not broken Plan B as I would have think he would have broken by now.

Please help me guys I am feeling like I want to bow out, is there any hope left at all? Knowing I am going through this if he is with OW ahhhh.

Can you tell me why HD continues to fence sit? He wants a family too. He now doesn't even have the benefit of our lifestyle which I thought was keeping him here.

To be honest I would have stayed in Plan B if it wasn't for the situation for my Dad I just know I won't be able to forgive him. To know my dad has so little time to live and make no effort to see me.

The love is dying.