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Seems weird to just never discuss it again, but he asked "for what purpose?" and "to what advantage?" and I don't really have valid answers. He suggested me telling H when I'm feeling down so that H can help me think/talk about another subject. DDD, bringing it up again triggers you both and keeps you enmeshed in trauma rather than focused on recovery. I have noticed that the BS's who follow this advice are much happier, much sooner. I kept my marriage in turmoil for about 2 years by dragging this out, but once I decided to shut up, my marriage took a distinct turn. This is one of those exercises where you need to bring the body and the mind will follow.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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This is one of those exercises where you need to bring the body and the mind will follow. That's what I'm hoping for, ML. I'm really, really hoping. H and I went out to dinner with friends last night, and in the middle of me laughing and talking to my girlfriends, I started visualizing disgusting acts from "the black months" (as we agreed with SH this morning to call them). I didn't get sad while my mind raced, but I was so very irritated that I have to deal with this BS in the middle of my enjoyable evening. Do these visualizations simply ease up/happen less frequently in time? Do antidepressants help ease these mind games? I've never tried them before, but I'm considering it.
FBW in recovery
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Updating this thread. I want to say how helpful MB has been to my H and I and our recovery process over the past several months. We've learned a lot through MB, including the fact that communicating the truth is always the best policy. Always. Even if the truth is a negative thing that's going to hurt, people deserve to live with the full truth. There is no real healing, forgiveness nor redemption when you deal in lies, partial truths, hidden facts, dishonesty. H and I are doing pretty well. Our relationship is in very good shape, all things considered. We enjoy each other's company and spend a lot of time together -- one on one, with our kids, with friends. He is so good to me, treats me with so much gentleness, love and devotion. I still can't believe this wonderful man was capable of such atrocity against me and our marriage. But he was. I was vacationing with my mom and a couple friends recently (one of whom is the sister of my BIL/OWsister's husband ... that's how twisted this mess is), and my mom and friends were talking about my H saying they wish they could clone him. OK, that's taking it a bit far. I understand he's a good guy and all, but he cheated on me. With my sister. Let's not get carried away. They understood. I definitely still have my times of upset about the A and its horrendous aftermath. The aftermath is our divorce from my S and BIL and the shake up of my family. I feel so sad for my mom who knows her family will never be the same again. But with the exception of one sister who gets sucked into the OWsister's cries of victimization (yep, she's still doing it; more on that later), the others are so supportive and caring toward me. One sister asked H and I to vacation with her and her H this winter, and we're going to go along with a brother and his wife. In bringing this thread up to speed, I should state that a couple issues arose the past few months that I started new threads about rather than adding to this one: 1) "Suggestions for 14yo daughter handling A "secret"?" - End of June Summary: - In April, with the help of this forum, we told our 14yo and 13yo kids the truth about H's A with my S that occurred 9 years ago.
- As of the end of June, my sister and BIL hadn't told their 17yo and 15yo kids the truth, but their kids knew the adults were fighting.
- Our kids were going to be around these cousins, and I asked this forum for suggestions about how our kids, especially our daughter, might handle that uncomfortable situation since she knew the truth but her cousins didn't.
- In the end, the cousins were told by their parents about the A ... along with a great deal of spin that demonized me once again (outlined on pg. 15 of the thread). Some of the demonizing spin: the A was 10 yrs ago (lie - it was 9yrs ago) which is so long ago to matter now, their mom had told their dad the truth way back then (lie - she had only told him partial truth ... that it was a couple kisses, not sex), their dad hasn't retaliated like I have, the A happened before the adulterers had God in their lives (lie), the adulterers are different people now changed by God (lie - their mom was recently in another long term A with her son's hockey coach in addition to a number of other flings; BIL is an adulterer too), that I'm making too big a deal out of the whole thing, that I need to forgive my S, that I should have handled this better and kept the kids out of it, that I've hurt everyone, that I'm purposely trying to hurt my S by telling my entire family about the A.
- Their kids didn't ever seem to be to be upset about the A itself, even showing up for a family dinner at a restaurant me and H were having with other family members the very day they learned he banged their mom years ago. My 15yo nephew told our daughter "I could never be mad at Uncle ______; he's too cool of a guy." :eyeroll:
2) "On MB Radio in 5 Minutes" - Early October Summary: - I wrote to the Harleys through their MB Radio program asking for guidance on how to handle weddings and other celebratory events that occur in my family in order to follow NC. I'm referring to events hosted by other brothers and sisters and their kids; it's a big family.
- Dr. Harley restated his reasons for NC: "One is for himself to make sure he doesn't rekindle the relationship and for there to be no opportunity for it to re-emerge. The other, of course, is for the sake of the betrayed spouse, that any contact made is a terrible offense to the betrayed spouse."
- Dr Harley compared the feelings I would have being around my sister to feelings I would have being in the presence of my rapist: "Let's suppose someone were to rape you and it were to be a devastating experience, you would be held for three days, raped repeatedly, and they would want to encourage you to forgive this person and invite him to all the family functions. You can see how unreasonable that would be. Well, in this case, your sister would affect you the way your rapist would affect you. Your sister literally affects you the way someone who had done the most disgraceful, despicable thing to you imaginable would affect you. The pain and suffering you would experience being with your sister for a family event would so far outweigh the pleasure that your family members would have seeing you and your sister together for that event that there's just no question that it is something that they should not want you to experience and you should not make yourself experience. A lot of women have told me who have experienced rape and infidelity that the infidelity is worse, is harder for them. So the idea of a rapist showing up for weddings occasionally, and you're never sure when he's going to be there, pretty well limits you to the weddings you can attend."
- His advice was: "I think you can explain to whoever's having the wedding that if they would like you to be there, they can't invite your sister. I think that would be the way to handle it. Say 'I will come if my sister is not there. My sister had an affair with my husband, I have forgiven her but I can't be with her.' "
- Here's a link to the broadcast: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=2264# and http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=2265# (MB 101110 A and B).
I shared this broadcast with a couple family members, and I'll tell you their response soon. This post is long enough already.
FBW in recovery
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On to sharing the response I've received so far after sending the radio broadcast to family. When my husband listened to the broadcast, he said that while he agrees with everything Dr. Harley said, he thinks I'll be disappointed with some family members' reactions since people can find professional advice to back up any point of view. He was right. I've shared the broadcast with two sisters so far. One sister is 100% supportive of me, fully understands NC, and thinks Dr. Harley was right on. The other sister is the one swayed by the OWsister's cries of victimization. This sister thought Dr. Harley was grossly exaggerating when making the rape comparison. She thinks there is no comparison. She has never been raped, doesn't have a husband, never had a husband who cheated on her, only a boyfriend who cheated on her, yet in her opinion Dr. Harley's opinions are overboard. So there you have it. Same broadcast. Totally different takeaways after listening to it. The sister that thought Dr. Harley was exaggerating, her son (like a brother to me) and his wife invited us for Thanksgiving. We were planning to go and stay with them for a few days ... until I heard that they also invited OWsister and her husband to a party they're having Saturday. I asked nephew to verify whether OWsister was invited; he said yes, doubted she'd come but said he can't say for sure. I shared the broadcast with him and asked him to please no longer invite me to events that OWsister's invited to, sparing me from having to guess or discuss whether she'll be there. H and I decided to not even go down for Thanksgiving day. Not worth the potential chaos of her "maybe" showing up on Saturday which would make it necessary for us to leave early. We want and need peace, not anxiety. Nephew and his wife also think Dr. Harley exaggerated in his comparison. Nephew has said a few times to me that he totally understands why I'd never want to speak to OWsister again and that he wouldn't forgive her if he were in my place, yet he thinks the rape comparison is faulty because rape is physical abuse while the A is emotional. Whatever. Bottom line is they don't get it. They don't understand how the trigger would have a similar affect on me. Why put myself in that spot? And if I don't feel comfortable, I cannot for the life of me understand why any of my loved ones would think I should put myself in that spot, despite what any expert says. It's so very frustrating that some people won't get it, no matter what factual information they hear. Why, why, why can't they just intuitively understand the way so many other family members and friends do that it's not a good thing for me to be around this person? Even someday? My nephew's wife and I exchanged emails, and here's part of what she said: As for the choices you are making, you and (H) have to do what you need to do to heal. And I hope that you do, with time, fully heal and trust again. I can't imagine what it is like to be in any of your shoes, so I won't try. I don't have negative thoughts about you... I do, however, worry . Hopefully that feels honest and natural to you. This is a huge blow to the family and to you and (OWsister's H) as individuals. I will continue to pray for the four of you.
We remain committed to staying out of things to the best of our abilities but of course it does get harder when we are talking about who will or will not gather in our home. I honestly do hope that some day, maybe years from now, you can find a way to be in the same building as (OWsister and her H). I honestly worry about things like funerals and how that would work. I also have a hard time fully understanding some of the advice you received via that radio show. But again I really don't have an understanding of the marriage builder program, so the radio clips are in fact out of context for us.
I will offer that personally, (and this is just me... so no judgment of you and H and your choices) the idea of saying you forgive someone but can never see them again rings hollow. But if that is what you have to do, so be it. It just seems to be devoid of hope for full family reunification in the future but as you have said that does not seem possible. I am not saying this to pressure you or to minimize your pain. Rather I think all of us grieve for the family that we thought we had, so a hope for reunification is part of our grief process. We love and enjoy all of you and are sad to think that we all can never be together again. I hope it makes sense that each member of the family has their own grief and that our grief does not minimize your pain or grief.
FBW in recovery
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People who have not been through tragedies in their own lives have a hard time understanding the devastation of adultery. My son was killed the same year my last H left me for his OW and I will tell you that his affair was as traumatic as the death of my 18 year old son. Both of those traumas still affect me deeply today. From " Defending Traditional Marriage" by Dr Willard Harley - pg 143: An affair is devastating to a betrayed spouse. It�s one of the most painful experiences that he or she could ever endure. In fact, most betrayed spouses cannot think of a single tragedy that is worse for them than the affair. Consider these examples (names have been changed to protect their identity)
* Nancy's father was murdered, her mother died of a very aggressive cancer in the same year. Both were very close to Nancy, and their sudden deaths were devastating to her. But she reported that the pain she suffered from her husband's affair was far more devastating.
* Cindy had been sexually molested by her father in her early teens. Yet her husband's one-year affair with a woman he met while away on business created far more trauma for her than her father's irresponsible behavior.
* Julie was raped by a stranger when she attended college. She told us that the rape paled in comparison to her struggle with her husband's two year affair with a female co worker.
* Robin was gang raped when she was twenty three. She reported that her husband�s one year affair with a woman he met at a local bar was much more difficult to overcome than the physical and emotional damage from the rape.
* Chad's six year old son died in a backyard accident. He said the pain he suffered from his wife's affair with a neighbor was far greater than the pain from his son's tragic death.
* Sylvia's younger sister was raped and murdered by a stranger when Sylvia was twenty one. But her husband's five month affair with a co-worker caused her to suffer more than the brutal death of her younger sister, whom she cared for deeply.
These are just a few of the testimonials that we have recorded when counseling victims of infidelity at the Marriage Builders Counseling Center. Scores of others have told me the same thing. A spouse's affair is the just about the worst experience in anyone's life. Dr Harley also discusses it here: After having counseled thousands of couples with hundreds of marital conflicts, I am completely convinced that a spouse's unfaithfulness is the most painful experience that can be inflicted in marriage. Those I've counseled who have
had the tragic misfortune of having experienced rape, physical abuse, sexual abuse of their children, and infidelity have consistently reported to me that their spouse's unfaithfulness was their very worst experience. To be convinced of the devastating impact of infidelity, you only need to go through it once. Some of Dr Harley's posts to members on the weekend forum: written to a WH: Since you've had an affair, I would imagine that your wife is very emotionally defensive about the subject. It's the worst experience of her life -- worse than the loss of her son five years ago. Can you imagine anything being that bad? Well, you did it to her, and she is suffering as a result. It's all she can do to remain rational. If she were to express herself emotionally at this point, she would probably be expressing deep feelings of hopelessness and catastrophic loss. By trying to be rational, she is able to focus on the practical side of the issue. "We regard infidelity as the worst offense in marriage. More damaging than physical abuse. And when a couple goes through a period of time when their relationship is broken, and they are not meeting each other's emotional needs, infidelity is very common. Granted, we can even patch these marriages together when the incentive to reconcile (children) is present. But it would be much easier and much less painful if you and your husband never had to go through it.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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p.s. I would point out that Dr Harley is a clincial psychologist who has counseled thousands over his 40 year career and he is in a better position to understand the devastation than someone who has never experienced a tragedy from a front row seat.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I was repeatedly sexually abused as a child. Imagine worrying about whether or not you're pregnant by your 28 yo BIL at the age of nine.
Guess which one was worse - that, or my FWH's affair. The affair.
People who haven't been through it will not get it.
D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!
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MelodyLane and Maritalbliss, wow, thank you for your words and for sharing your own personal comparisons.
Another sister suggested that I read this one book about stupid things well-meaning people say to a parent when a child dies. She thought it might help me better shrug off some of the ridiculous things people say so that I can remain focused on lovingly repairing my marriage and establishing healthy boundaries.
FBW in recovery
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Well, she's got the right idea - people will say ignorant things, because they have no basis for their comments.
I like that you've remained focused on the most important thing: your marriage.
D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!
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Another sister suggested that I read this one book about stupid things well-meaning people say to a parent when a child dies. She thought it might help me better shrug off some of the ridiculous things people say so that I can remain focused on lovingly repairing my marriage and establishing healthy boundaries. You know what, though? I have never had anyone tell me about my son's death to "just get over it." Or that I was being "dramatic" or "ridiculous" about my grief. All of the stupid things said to me about my son's death were not offensive like the things I have been told about my XH's affair. I cannot think of a single time my grief was dismissed with contempt in the 10 years since my son was killed. I can't say the same about my H's affair. I have even had people on this board suggest I am a nutjob for making the comparison.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I cannot think of a single time my grief was dismissed with contempt in the 10 years since my son was killed. I can't say the same about my H's affair.
I have even had people on this board suggest I am a nutjob for making the comparison. I can only imagine. How painful and irritating those judgments must have been for you. Must still be. I can't imagine anything being so devastating and traumatic as losing one of my children. But it would be silly for me to say there's no comparison between that and some other tragedy in life because I haven't experienced it myself. There's no way I could have understood how devastating and traumatic adultery is before it personally affected me. I walked with two friends through their recoveries from their husbands' affairs. I witnessed devastation like I'd never seen, but I didn't feel it or truly experience it myself. There's a big difference. I'm so glad that we at least have MB and the Harleys to acknowledge the severity of our pain as we cope with adultery.
FBW in recovery
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DDD --
You are right to dis-associate with your OWSister. Particularily since she has not changed her wayward mindset, tries to minimize the betrayal of you, blames her victim -- and has continued her behavior.
She is simply too much of a risk.
You may feel differently someday if she truly experiences a change and becomes a FORMER wayward...she is still CURRENTLY wayward in her way of thinking. Maybe someday she will finally understands the enormity of what she did. Maybe someday you will sense true remorse from her.
Recovery of the sister relationship might not be unlike the recovery of the marriage. The very first thing required would be a humble heart full of remorse.
That hasn't happened. And it may never happen.
And until then...stay safe.
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You are right to dis-associate with your OWSister. Particularily since she has not changed her wayward mindset, tries to minimize the betrayal of you, blames her victim -- and has continued her behavior.
She is simply too much of a risk. You are so right. I'll share an email OWsister sent to my entire family about six weeks ago that illustrates your point. Prepare yourself. It's incomprehensible. Don't forget to click on the hyperlink she includes at the end. Dear family, At the beginning of this ugly mess that I caused I had a lot of shame, remorse and pain going on. I didn't handle everything perfectly. I made a lot of mistakes. If anyone cares to ever know any part or parts of that I would be happy to discuss them with you. I know some of you feel I should have handled it as (OM) has - writing letters, apologies, etc. I am sorry for how our family has gone through struggles because of my past mistakes - truly. I realize my relationship with many of you will not be the same ever again, because of my actions. I am learning about that and dealing with that right now. Let me make one thing very clear - I will no longer be abused or shamed by (S) any longer. I love her. I have apologized to her. I have missed her and her family very much throughout this time. Though I still feel apologetic for my past, she will no longer dictate my future. You can all sign your contracts with her - it's very controlling and unrealistic to think her name will never be mentioned in front of me again. (S) has made this a full out vendetta about me/not (OW). I'm tired. She has involved my children, friends and most of (the city where we grew up) - due to word of mouth. My life has been "put out there" for all to see and judge. Let me know the next time you would like your life/sins broadcast. My past, besides anything involving (OM) and (S), is no one's business - not even (S)'s. My past is mine - if you have any questions or judgements about it, please feel free to ask me any questions personally. I love you all...that will never change. We are moving on... http://www.designedthinking.com/Fear/Abuse/abuse.htmlJust look at the way she misspells the word "judgements." Why oh why can't people use spellcheck?  (trying to find some humor in her pathetic attempt to paint me as the abuser) From what I know, her email was ignored. In a way it upsets me that my mom, sisters, brothers, her SILs (her H's sisters/my friends) tell me how ridiculous and outrageous she sounds when she acts like she's some sort of victim, yet they refrain from telling her to shut up already. But they all seem to think it's more effective to ignore her. And then I realize they're probably right. She wants attention. The ones who have her number don't give her the attention she seeks. But seriously, did you read the linked webpage? Can you believe she's diagnosing me as an emotional abuser who hasn't come to terms with my past emotional issues? I mean this just gets better and better.
FBW in recovery
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How bizarre!  A person who feels no remorse for their crimes is dangerous. She indicted herself with that email attempting to paint you as an "abuser." You didn't "shame" her; she did that with her own actions. And well she should be ashamed!!
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Updating this thread. I want to say how helpful MB has been to my H and I and our recovery process over the past several months. We've learned a lot through MB, including the fact that communicating the truth is always the best policy. Always. Even if the truth is a negative thing that's going to hurt, people deserve to live with the full truth. There is no real healing, forgiveness nor redemption when you deal in lies, partial truths, hidden facts, dishonesty. H and I are doing pretty well. Our relationship is in very good shape, all things considered. We enjoy each other's company and spend a lot of time together -- one on one, with our kids, with friends. He is so good to me, treats me with so much gentleness, love and devotion. I still can't believe this wonderful man was capable of such atrocity against me and our marriage. But he was. I was vacationing with my mom and a couple friends recently (one of whom is the sister of my BIL/OWsister's husband ... that's how twisted this mess is), and my mom and friends were talking about my H saying they wish they could clone him. OK, that's taking it a bit far. I understand he's a good guy and all, but he cheated on me. With my sister. Let's not get carried away. They understood. I definitely still have my times of upset about the A and its horrendous aftermath. The aftermath is our divorce from my S and BIL and the shake up of my family. I feel so sad for my mom who knows her family will never be the same again. But with the exception of one sister who gets sucked into the OWsister's cries of victimization (yep, she's still doing it; more on that later), the others are so supportive and caring toward me. One sister asked H and I to vacation with her and her H this winter, and we're going to go along with a brother and his wife. In bringing this thread up to speed, I should state that a couple issues arose the past few months that I started new threads about rather than adding to this one: 1) "Suggestions for 14yo daughter handling A "secret"?" - End of June Summary: - In April, with the help of this forum, we told our 14yo and 13yo kids the truth about H's A with my S that occurred 9 years ago.
- As of the end of June, my sister and BIL hadn't told their 17yo and 15yo kids the truth, but their kids knew the adults were fighting.
- Our kids were going to be around these cousins, and I asked this forum for suggestions about how our kids, especially our daughter, might handle that uncomfortable situation since she knew the truth but her cousins didn't.
- In the end, the cousins were told by their parents about the A ... along with a great deal of spin that demonized me once again (outlined on pg. 15 of the thread). Some of the demonizing spin: the A was 10 yrs ago (lie - it was 9yrs ago) which is so long ago to matter now, their mom had told their dad the truth way back then (lie - she had only told him partial truth ... that it was a couple kisses, not sex), their dad hasn't retaliated like I have, the A happened before the adulterers had God in their lives (lie), the adulterers are different people now changed by God (lie - their mom was recently in another long term A with her son's hockey coach in addition to a number of other flings; BIL is an adulterer too), that I'm making too big a deal out of the whole thing, that I need to forgive my S, that I should have handled this better and kept the kids out of it, that I've hurt everyone, that I'm purposely trying to hurt my S by telling my entire family about the A.
- Their kids didn't ever seem to be to be upset about the A itself, even showing up for a family dinner at a restaurant me and H were having with other family members the very day they learned he banged their mom years ago. My 15yo nephew told our daughter "I could never be mad at Uncle ______; he's too cool of a guy." :eyeroll:
2) "On MB Radio in 5 Minutes" - Early October Summary: - I wrote to the Harleys through their MB Radio program asking for guidance on how to handle weddings and other celebratory events that occur in my family in order to follow NC. I'm referring to events hosted by other brothers and sisters and their kids; it's a big family.
- Dr. Harley restated his reasons for NC: "One is for himself to make sure he doesn't rekindle the relationship and for there to be no opportunity for it to re-emerge. The other, of course, is for the sake of the betrayed spouse, that any contact made is a terrible offense to the betrayed spouse."
- Dr Harley compared the feelings I would have being around my sister to feelings I would have being in the presence of my rapist: "Let's suppose someone were to rape you and it were to be a devastating experience, you would be held for three days, raped repeatedly, and they would want to encourage you to forgive this person and invite him to all the family functions. You can see how unreasonable that would be. Well, in this case, your sister would affect you the way your rapist would affect you. Your sister literally affects you the way someone who had done the most disgraceful, despicable thing to you imaginable would affect you. The pain and suffering you would experience being with your sister for a family event would so far outweigh the pleasure that your family members would have seeing you and your sister together for that event that there's just no question that it is something that they should not want you to experience and you should not make yourself experience. A lot of women have told me who have experienced rape and infidelity that the infidelity is worse, is harder for them. So the idea of a rapist showing up for weddings occasionally, and you're never sure when he's going to be there, pretty well limits you to the weddings you can attend."
- His advice was: "I think you can explain to whoever's having the wedding that if they would like you to be there, they can't invite your sister. I think that would be the way to handle it. Say 'I will come if my sister is not there. My sister had an affair with my husband, I have forgiven her but I can't be with her.' "
- Here's a link to the broadcast: http://richwith.com/mb/radio/shows/10-2010/10-13-10/ (MB 101110 A and B).
I shared this broadcast with a couple family members, and I'll tell you their response soon. This post is long enough already. Delta, Listened to your radio show and you were great!!! You asked the same questions I have wondered about and it was so helpful to hear the answers directly from Dr.Harley.  Just know when your tears came I cried with you... It's hard for others to know sometimes just how devastating having the OP be your own flesh and blood actually is... Just wanted to let you know that the above post where you took the time to summarize some of the key points was fantastic and right on. The difficulty in not only recovering our marriages but also of trying not to alienate the rest of the family sometimes is overwhelming... Dr.Harley was able to give some very helpful insight and I can't thank you enough for sharing it with us.  God bless you, Jim
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DDD, it is good to hear that you are doing better. I am happy for you. I can't imagine how hard it is to deal with an A when the OP is a sibling. That is a double betrayal and you are expected to be the "good" person and forgive and forget. I do have one thing to ask however. How did this email from your sis find its way to you? NC should be for BOTH you AND FWH. Plan B your sister. Let everyone know around you that you wish to know NOTHING about what goes on with your sister. Stay out of the wayward drama. Protect yourself. 
BW(Me)aka Scotty:37 DSx2: 10,12 DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09 Plan B Dec18/09 Personal R in works Scotty's THING Newly Betrayed click herePraying for walls and doors. Thanx MM “Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.” ? Maya Angelou PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION THANK YOU
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Joined: Apr 2008
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DDD, it is good to hear that you are doing better. I am happy for you.
I can't imagine how hard it is to deal with an A when the OP is a sibling. That is a double betrayal and you are expected to be the "good" person and forgive and forget. I couldn't agree with you more Scottie. That is the same thing some members of my family have told me... that it is not consistent with forgiveness to not have reconciliation... I disagree with them... For one thing, my ex-brother has not asked to be forgiven... IF he ever does I will, as a Christian, attempt to do so... HOWEVER... THERE WILL NEVER BE RECONCILIATION WITH THE OP OF THE AFFAIR... I will not break no contact with him because of the two reasons Dr.Harley advises no contact: Because of the possibility of the affair resuming... and... Because contact with the OP will destroy me emotionally... What some in the church sometimes forget about forgiveness is this... Christ commands forgiveness for REPENTANT sinners... HOWEVER... HE DID NOT COMMAND THE CHRISTIANS TO VOLUNTEER TO LINE UP AT THE COLISEUM TO BE LIONBAIT. HE HIMSELF avoided his enemies until the Lord's time had come to offer HIMSELF as our sacrifice. NOWHERE IN THE BIBLE DOES IT COMMAND US TO VOLUNTEER TO BE ABUSED BY OTHERS. It, in fact, teaches us to DISTANCE ourselves from those that do evil and are nonrepentant. God bless. Jim
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Joined: Oct 2009
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Couldn't have said it better Jim.
BW(Me)aka Scotty:37 DSx2: 10,12 DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09 Plan B Dec18/09 Personal R in works Scotty's THING Newly Betrayed click herePraying for walls and doors. Thanx MM “Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.” ? Maya Angelou PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION THANK YOU
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Joined: Apr 2010
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I do have one thing to ask however. How did this email from your sis find its way to you? NC should be for BOTH you AND FWH. Plan B your sister. Let everyone know around you that you wish to know NOTHING about what goes on with your sister. Stay out of the wayward drama. Protect yourself. I'm guilty. OWsister contacted me via text. I shouldn't have responded to her but did, and we had a nasty exchange. I then found out how to block texts and blocked her. So a week or so later I asked someone if they had heard about the incident. I shouldn't have asked. I was told she sent out that letter, and I asked for it to be forwarded to me. I know ... there's no benefit to me and I should not be involved. This one didn't even bother me because she sounds like such an idiotic lunatic.
FBW in recovery
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Delta, Listened to your radio show and you were great!!! You asked the same questions I have wondered about and it was so helpful to hear the answers directly from Dr.Harley. Just know when your tears came I cried with you... It's hard for others to know sometimes just how devastating having the OP be your own flesh and blood actually is... Just wanted to let you know that the above post where you took the time to summarize some of the key points was fantastic and right on. The difficulty in not only recovering our marriages but also of trying not to alienate the rest of the family sometimes is overwhelming... Dr.Harley was able to give some very helpful insight and I can't thank you enough for sharing it with us. God bless you, Jim Thanks much, Jim. I'm glad it helped you too.
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