Like many others, I've been reading these forums for quite some time, but hesitant to post. I am the FWW. Almost two years ago, I had a 4-month long EA/PA with an associate pastor of our church, who was also my husband's friend and confidante. I cannot even express what a devestating impact this has had on myself, my husband, our family, and really anyone around us.

Six months after D-day, my husband decided he could not deal with the painful memories anymore and asked me to move out. I told him at the time that I was willing to do whatever he needed for as long as he needed in order to show that I was sincere in wanting him and only him. I found a job to support myself and my children, and moved into an apartment still close to my BH.

I stayed in the apartment for six months. I tried to fulfill the needs of my BH as best as possible from a distance. I did not initiate any contact with OM, and when OM did try to contact me, I called my BH to let him know. Together, we decided to contact the police and have the officer call OM's house to tell him to stop trying to contact me or we would file a restraining order.

After six months in the apartment, my BH decided to try to give me another chance and I moved back in in May of this year. I love my BH so much and want to make him feel that love, respect, and admiration in a way that is meaningful to him. I understand his needs, and try to meet them as much as possible. My BH says he recognizes my efforts, but it is difficult for him to accept the changes in me because he has a new 'vision' of who I am and what I am capable of (he never wanted to be married to someone who was capable of having an affair). He says because of me, his life is not what it should be and he's still not sure that it's worth the effort to fight for a relationship with someone who could have done something so awful. I cannot necessarily say I disagree with him on this...

Over the past week, I have tried to bring up the concept of POJA (I've always been the one to quietly allow him to make the decisions, and our marriage suffered because of this). His initial response to this is that he did not grow up like that and according to what he has seen work (in his parents' marriage), the man is the one who takes in all available input and then makes the choice that is best for the family. He sees it as extremely disrespectful and ungrateful for me to interject my opinion.

All that to say, he now says we are just too incompatible to make this work. I feel like if I were to be the quiet, loving, adoring doormat, he would feel respected.

Fast forward to last night. There is a woman he works with who I have just had a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach about, although there have never been any signs of inappropriate behavior. However, last night, he was deliberately hiding from me while sending text messages. I asked him if everything was okay, and he said that he was just sending some information to his business partner (a male), so I left it alone. As I was reading a story to my daughter before bed, his phone lit up with an incoming text message, and he was in the other room. I got nosy and looked at it. It was a back-and-forth conversation between him and this particular woman with comments such as "We'll meet and I'll get the pumpkin spice lattes", or "You're so funny...if by funny, you mean sexy as he**, then yes, I'm hilarious". My BH was the one to make the last comment.

I took the phone to him and of course, he said everything was easily explainable...it was just their inside joke and I didn't understand the context. I told him it was inappropriate to speak to another woman that way, and it was highly disrespectful to me as his wife, then I left to drive around for a while to calm down.

So, finally, my question...my BH says this does not even compare to what I did to him (which is absolutely true), and I'm only so sensitive to it because of my past poor choices. I'm trying to be calm and think through this, because I don't want to accuse him of anything that doesn't exist. Am I being unreasonable to be so hurt?

Welcome to MB. Of course it is not right for your H to have an affair, no matter what you may have done. If he wants to date other women, he should get a divorce first and not just string you along while he cheats.


Has he always been like this? What country/culture is he from? Or does he just want an employee for a wife, not a partner and an equal?

I'm not certain that he's having an affair. I think he's just drawn to the attention/flattery of other women, and sees it as trying to build back up the self-esteem that I destroyed in him. The problem is that it is so easy for me to recognize where this flattery and attention can lead (because I've been down that road); he says he is not 'that kind of person' and knows where his boundaries are.

He grew up in a very biblically-based Christian home where the husband is the head-of-the-household and the wife submits to that authority out of respect. I did not grow up this way, but I learned to adapt to please him.

KF,

I am the FWW. Almost two years ago, I had a 4-month long EA/PA with an associate pastor of our church

I hope this OM/pastor has been exposed to the church at large, he is really unfit to lead and should not be a preacher, nor should he slink off to some other church to do the same thing.
Does his wife know?

God Bless
Gamma

Gamma,
Yes, the A was exposed to everyone. The OM resigned the next day (I honestly have no idea what he's doing now). My BH asked that I meet with everyone around us to discuss what I had done (in detail). I personally spoke with all of our friends at the church, the church leadership council, all of our family and extended family, our children, and anyone else my BH felt had the right to know.

We no longer attend church there or have any contact with any former friends or acquaintences. My BH said that anyone who was in our life during that time served as a trigger for him, so I removed myself from the group as a whole.

But he doesn't have boundaries if he is flirting with skanks from his office. Flirting is a form of courting. Your H is courting this woman. So yes he is that kind of person obviously. Someone who is not that kind of person has boundaries, he doesn't.

As far as decision making in your marriage, ask your H if he wants you to be in love with him? Does he want for you both to be compatible? Because his one sided decision making - giving no thought whatsoever to your feelings - is leading to incompatibility. Not taking your feelings into account is a huge lovebuster.

I would start by getting the books Surviving an Affair, Lovebusters and the Five Steps to Romantic Love workbook and start there. Read them, get a good understanding and then sell it to your H by asking him straight out: do you want to be in love or don't you?

Also, was the church and the OM's wife, if any, informed of the affair? Do they know they have a fox in the henhouse of God?

oh good! Your H did the right thing.

ML - Thank you for your suggestions. I have read SAA and HNHN, and although my H knows I have read both of them, he does not have interest because the material is too sensitive for him. Even me bringing up the topic of how we can work on our marriage ends in a comment similar to, "You've already destroyed it. Nothing we have now can be good because of the memories and thoughts that I have to deal with every day."

He says he doesn't want a D, but he wants me to be there and continue to show him love, respect, adoration, etc. while he decides what he wants to do. I feel like I'm supposed to be there until someone better comes along.

As he told me last night, he doesn't want to be without his kids, and he doesn't want to be alone (without someone to share his life with), but he never mentioned that he wanted that person to be me. Am I expecting too much from someone I basically destroyed? Are these comments more indicitave of the fact that I'm not doing a good job meeting his ENs?

Look, he is saying all the right things, he just isn't at a place to put his feelings out there again, it will be hard to trust and believe in the person that let him down..
This will take time and a lot of work on your part, giving him no reason to ever doubt you is the key and that will take time, your actions mean everything right now, anyone can say anything, words are not going to work only actions......
Slowly you replace the bad memories for him with new positive ones.......It is to early for you to expect anything, this isn't a sprint, you have destroyed his belief system and that is going to be like starting from scratch..........this is your job now. you love him and make sure he knows you will do what it takes for however long it takes......
As he processes all the information and feelings he will come to his own decisions that are best for his life.........my guess is the gut reactions he is having about not wanting a divorce or being without a partner is what he needs and wants, of course it's you, you are his wife, who else would it be, he still loved you, before, during and now ............Meet his needs the best way you can, do little things for him, touch him gently, look right into his eyes when you speak, make sure he feels safe...........assure him that you never intend to hurt him like this ever again, that this is your opportunity to be the best couple in love that you can be..........this is and opportunity for both of you..........
Don't let the affair and that nightmare take anymore of either of you............
It wasn't worth it, I think you both know that now.........

KF, can you afford to get phone coaching from the Harley's? It costs about $200 a session. The reason I am suggesting this is because Steve Harley could tell you what to say to get your H on the phone with him. Steve is very persuasive and might be able to persuade your H to get on board and fix his marriage. Your H doesn't seem to understand that he is causing you to fall out of love with him. He is asking you to sacrifice and suffer and that will not last long. That will eventually lead to divorce.

Dr Harley addresses this here to a pastor who was on this board advocating sacrifice: here

No plan is a plan to FAIL. There is no plan here. Your H says he wants to wipe out the memories and overcome the resentment. The fastest, most effective way to overcome the resentment is to create a happy, romantic, fulfilling marriage. Everything can be good if he does the right things. But that does not happen by a magic fairy. He needs to have a PLAN.

p.s. men really like Steve Harley because he is very LOGICAL. He lays it out logically. No fuzzy wuzzy feel good nonsense with him.

Is this what is going on?

Coping with Infidelity: Part 4
Overcoming Resentment

Logic is fuzzy wuzzy feel good sense, to me.

You and me both!!

Mel the left brainer!

I've asked my H if he would consider phone counseling with Dr. Harley, but he's not convinced that a phone counselor is worthwhile. We did counseling here for a little while, but it was terrible and I believe set us back quite a bit. My H just feels like he has so much anger and rage and trying to express that over the phone instead of face-to-face will not work. He's also very hesitant to spend that much money on something he's unsure about (he believes everyone is out just to make money and not to sincerely help).

ML - Thank you for posting this (although some of it hit a little too close to home!). I don't think my H is intentionally trying to hurt me by using the memories of the A, but he definitely does not want to give it up, because he sees that as the OM winning.

We do still discuss details of the A when my H asks, and I do continue to apologize for my actions (that was a condition of me moving back into the house - regular apologies to show my sincerity).

I think my H wishes everything could go back to the way it was before the A. He was happy then, although I definitely was not. I'm not at all saying that justifies the A - I would just rather use the time we have now to improve our relationship rather than just improve his self-esteem. I apologize if that sounds harsh; I'm almost desperate to feel like my H and I are working together in life.

This is why I suggested that YOU counsel with Steve Harley and let him tell you what to say to influence your H to get on the phone with him. You don't need or want your H there anyway. They won't counsel couples in crisis together.

No no no. He needs to look at this differently. The condition of your M pre-A created an atmosphere that left both of you vulnerable to an A.

Suggest to your H that there is another way, a better way, than just going back to 'business as usual.'