Before anyone starts with the 2x4's please let me put a disclaimer in here. I did not know of MB and did everything wrong and had alot of issues/anger. I have been married to my husband for almost 4 yrs and together for 5 and I really need some advice on what to do. Our relationship at times has been very volatile on both sides. We do not have any children between us but we both have children from previous marriages. I have worked on my own issues for the past 6 months to a year with the wonderful help from Dr. Harley's book "Lovebusters" which I was guilty from, with Angry outbursts and disrespectful judgments. So there has been infidelities on both sides.

Our relationship started off wonderful but ran into problems right away. We both met in another state away from our home states. Our jobs took us away and we met at work. I would say on my side I was not ready for a relationship because I had just come out of a 17 yr marriage, that I ended, because of my infidelity and I wasn't responsible enough to try and save my marriage and thought I messed up so I have to pay the consequences. He has had infidelities in every relationship he has been in. I did not know of this until after we were married. He also had three kids from a previous relationship that I was not aware of. I only knew of one child from his last marriage and did not find out about the other three children until 2.5 years of being together. So to say the least he was not paying support for all of his children. When he would fly home to see his one DD that I knew of he would see the other three children.

When we were first together I found out about the first EA's he was having it was from phone records and still talking to one of his Exes (he didn't have any kids with this one but they were engaged). So in revenge I went online and started to chat with many men. Another of the many things that was causing us alot of grief is that I was working with a man that I had slept with before I even had met my husband but I was still working with this man (he is the AP that I had with my first H). So to start over or get a clean slate I put in for a transfer and got a job in a new state because I knew we would never move forward on my end. So we both figured this is a fresh start. However, right before we left I had to train the man that I had a previous affair with as the replacement for my position. I did not tell my husband and lied about who I was training and so the night before we were moving it all came out. I know what a mess. I was not educated on MB principles and handled alot of things incorrectly and flat out wrong. Now looking back at our time in Virginia I believe he had at least one PA maybe more because I found alot of questionable items like condoms, because we never used them, but I never got proof.

07-2007 So we moved to a new state with a fresh start, so I thought, we told each other we were starting over.

10-07 he drove back to his home state to get the rest of his things and I found out he was talking to all sorts of women he met online. I told him we were done and to not come back but of course we wanted to try and work it out. So once again I thought we were moving forward and he is having a real difficult time finding a job and so my job is what is holding us down. 10-07 after I find out that he is talking to many more women I go back online and meet more people. Well (here's a bit of FOG babble)since we promised not to do this again and I promised I wouldn't meet men like this I talked only to women. I know how sick and immature we are and trust me that is why I have been trying to educate and get myself better.

03-2008 and the story keeps going on. I find out that he met a woman for ONS and all heck happens. The cops get called and we both get charged with DV. In our state since it was first time, we could do counseling and pay some fines and I'm the one with the worse charge because I threw something at him it didn't hit him and it was wrong. The cops also tell me I can not put him out of the house because his name is on there.

10-2008 I find out about his three other children.

03-2009 he was fired from his job

12-2009 I find emails to other women again and one of them is a woman he works with (OW#1) and a friend of ours (OW#2). Nothing physically happened because OW#1 wouldn't, but it didn't stop her from talking with a married man and an EA with OW#2.

12-09-2009 is when I found MB and started to try and implement the program. So after I found the emails I exposed on facebook and told OW#2 Husband and exposed to his work. He got into trouble for his job and the OW#1 quit her job. I read SAA.

01-10 finally got health insurance to get him into the doctor and get him on meds for blood pressure.

02-10 he got injured on the job and was in the ER for 3 days.

03-10 job let him go because he was no longer able to do job duties.

04-10-09-10 WH was seeing a counselor to deal with all the health issues and issues with his children. WH was diagnosed with Panic attack disorder.

05-10 WH had another trip to the ER for TIA but doesn't want to believe the diagnoses

06-10 another trip to ER for WH and he was diagnosed with diabetes.

10-10 I got suspicious again because he is still out of work and I knew better and found out he was talking to OW#2 again. FINALLY armed with MB principles I exposed again and was Plan A. He sent OW#2 and her H a NC letter and deleted his old emails and gave me access to his new email. Got rid of facebook and we now only have an account together.

So I have been reading the website and the forum and Lovebusters and HN/HN. I have been working on my health and my anger.

10-10 WH gets a job that will deploy him out of the country and unemployment is about to run out and no job offers and so we are desperate financially. I pray about this and feel like maybe this will give me the time to get my head on straight.

10-20-10 WH is diagnosed with PTSD

11-15-10 was deployed.
I am working on my wayward habits and my anger and getting myself all around healthy I have put EP in and have boundaries now. Since I have been wayward myself I thought this is what I deserve and I know I can't change him only myself.

So my question, is it worth it to try and keep in this marriage? I know I can not change him only myself. He has looked at the website and likes some of the stuff but won't take the time to do the Emotional Questionaire but I think I know what his top EN are and have been working on meeting them. I don't know where I stand or what I want to do. Also I told him how do we keep such a sick marriage together when we are miles apart. I have prayed about this alot and try to take one day at a time to make myself better. I understand why I am the way I am and work every day to make myself better. I have gone alot to forgive myself for all my damage I have done to my kids and family.

Is there any help for us or should I cut my losses and run? I want help and I want to stop making the same mistakes and I want to be a true FWW!

Thanks for any help in advance.

Was this current guy the infidelity that ended your last marriage?

Your marriage can be saved if you both implement extraordinary precautions and eliminate the conditions that made your affairs possible. That would mean never spending the night apart, spending all of your leisure time together, eliminating all opposite sex relationships, cutting off the computer access unless you are both together, and leading completely transparent lifestyles. <-----that is what it would take to recover your marriage.

If you can't do those things, I would get divorced, because anything less than extra, extraordinary precautions will be a waste of time.

Yes he is

Before he left we were doing that and now that he is gone I don't know what to do until he gets back or what?

He has been calling and emailing as much as possible.

In that case, I would suggest the problem is much simpler. It is a matter of taking accountability for your choices. You willingly chose to marry a man who has no respect for marriage and he chose the same. You both believe in adultery so you can't complain when you both commit adultery.

When you marry an adulterer, they commit adultery. You both volunteered for this so you have no right to complain.

My suggestion would be to accept the consequences of your choices or leave and cut your losses. But don't complain when you marry someone who believes in adultery and he commits.......adultery. That is just silly. I mean c'mon. Put on your big girl panties and accept it like a big gurl.

p.s. you are not a "former" wayward wife. You are still with your adultery partner.

Ever read this?


Were true-er words ever spoken?

A-FREAKIN-MEN

No I'm sorry for the confusion. My current husband is not my AP that broke up my first marriage that was the guy that I was still working with when I met my now husband. Sorry for the confusion.

If that is the case and this marriage didn't start as an affair, then I would go back to my initial post about establishing extraordinary precautions to prevent repeat affairs. That is the only way I know of.

Is there anything else to truly ammend for my mistakes?

I do want to truly become a FWW.

I said that thinking you were with your affair partner. But you have cleared that part up.

BH,

Welcome to MB. You stated

First Mel is giving you good advice. Listen to her.

However, I would like to take this in a different direction. I'm a problem solver by nature and profession and when I see a MESS and this marriage is a MESS, it brings the problem solving part of me out.

It seems to me "making amends" right now doesn't make sense to me. Let's work on the FWW part first, OK?

Can you tell us why it is when you are mad at your H and perhaps your former H, you seek out other men? Doesn't that seem like throwing gasoline on a fire? It does to me.

You mention you have children from your former marriage are they with you? It would seem from your story you have moved away from your exH, so does he get to see them if they are with you? Do you get to see them if they are with him?

I am asking you this because we need a more complete picture of your life.

So let's go back to coping skills for a second. Why other men, when you feel anger or frustration or even hurt? Has any of these other men really enhanced your life in the long run? It seems to me the OM have led to your divorce, you needing to move and change jobs, and your contribution to the troubles in this marriage? Am I missing something here?

I will tell you that it seems to me that many of the problems in your life start with your lack of good coping skills. A lack of boundaries or the ability to defend the ones you have.

I'm guess that you reading the articles here will give you "some" insight into what makes a good marriage, but really you need to address your coping skills. I think counseling would help, and I know the Harleys are the best at marriage restoration. I will leave it to Mel or others if they think the coping skills issue is in their area of expertise. I'm guessing it is.

So let's start this discussion with working on how you handle life. I think you can see it will address your question about being a FWW and perhaps even amending your mistakes.

Look forward to hearing from you.

God Bless,

JL

Thank you for your response.
Yes I think I have poor coping skills and I think I go to other men because I want the attention and think in my head, fine you want to hurt me I'll show you.
Now I know
better and work daily on these issues.
I know I have weak boundaries and I have read the articles and it has helped me.

I do have 3 children from my first marriage and they were all with me. My two oldest are away to college and my DD13 is still with me and yes she flies to see her dad.

BH,

What is your relationship with your exH? Is it good, or is it distant?

I ask you this because I think that eventually as your perspective changes and it will if you stay here for any length of time, you need to apologize to your exH for what you have done to him and your family.

So what is it about the attention of men, that you seek, when you want to hurt the man you are with? Is it just knowing that you can hurt the man you are with? Or does it make you see yourself in a better light?

I'm asking you this because one of the things you need to understand are your needs and how you interpret them. These needs also need to be conected to your boundaries. For example you may think you need something that is illegal, immoral, or dangerous. This should be clashing with your boundaries and set off alarms that your needs may be deeper yet and could be met in a way that was not illegal, immoral or dangerous. Do you see what I mean?

Do the needs questionaire and then see if they violate the boundaries you do have or the ones you would like to have.

Also ask yourself why you would tolerate your H's behavior and only respond by trying to hurt him. Hurting people usually does not solve any problems as I believe you now see. It is sort of like the saying about resentment.
Hurting people usually ends up with you getting hurt as well as others that are innocent, that would be your children in this case.

I look forward to your thoughts.

God Bless,

JL

First of all thank you very much JustLearning for your wisdom and insight.

My relationship with my exH is distant but civil.

About a month ago I apologized to my exH and all my children for destroying our family. I told them I want to repent for my actions.

When I realized that I was a mess and have alot of issues I was on my knees asking for help. I know what I did was horrible and figured that all that has followed is due to my sin against my exhusband and family and myself and everyone in my life.

I definitely do not see myself in a better light after hurting the men in my life. I do it because I think it will hurt them back. I was and probably still am so filled with resentment and it is poison through me and I want to get rid of the poison.

I have looked at the Emotional Needs questionnaire and feel like I have the boundaries but they are weak when I am weak.

I feel like I want to hurt my husband because he has hurt me and I now know this is wrong and that revenge is not healthy.

I am trying to take each day and work on my issues.

BH,

Let's think about what you have said. This is good, very good. Is he remarried?

This is also very good. I say this because it would seem that you are finally examining yourself and how you lead your life. How do you propose to repent of your actions? What is your plan?

How is that working for you so far? In fact, if you hurt your H badly, what would that change? Other than he would be hurt.

So you hurt them back and hurt yourself further in the process, right? Are you thinking there might be a better way to address this?

Every heard of the saying
BH, there are many ways to address painful situation and the only ones that really work are the ones that remove you from the painful situation and leave you strong if not stronger for the effort.

Now this may seem to be orthogonal to MB, but in reality it is exactly what MB is about and why it is very counter intuitive.

Consider plan A. Your spouse has hurt you in the worst why with an affair and the affair is still continuing. What does plan A tell you to do to help end the affair? It says be a "giver" not a "taker" (please read Harleys articles on this), and to meet the Waywards spouse, WS, needs. Does that sound like common advice? Not really but Harley knows that most affairs end, on average within 6 months, although some last years. There can be no recovery until the affair ends but the chances of a good recovery depend on what the betrayed spouse does and plan A plants seeds in the WS's mind that this is actually a good person trying, although they don't want to admit to that at the time.

In your mindset you could not do plan A, because plan A is about "giving" without expectation of reward, hence it is not a marriage strategy, but a short term strategy. Your mindset is get revenge, hurt them, and make them cry like you do.

If you do the reading, keep asking questions, and follow some of the threads on this board you are going to see that your way doesn't work, MB works very very well. It is a matter of perspective and having plans. Harley is big on plans. As you read the articles and hopefully some of the books you will start to see a pattern here, and it will change your perspective on relationships and people in general.

Hang in here and the folks here will help you.
I'll stop now, but I would ask you for some ideas on how you could have handled your current situation better. We'll talk after Thanksgiving.

God Bless,

JL

Yes my exH is remarried and he also appologized to me and said he forgave me. He did and has never appologized for his affairs but I have to finally do the right thing. I'm still trying to figure the quote thing out.

So JL I am really asking what else I can do? What can I do to save this marriage or do I need to just cut my losses? Can I really change myslef if the other person is doing more damage to me? Should I do some what of a Plan A still even thought it is long distance or go into a Plan B and keep working on myself? I feel like I am starting to grasp Dr. Harley's and MB principles and am trying to see the error of my ways.
What else could I be missing? When I first wrote all this down I wasn't going to even tell you guys about my affairs and I realized I'm not going to get true help if I can't even be honest. Please keep helping me because I am trying to be a sponge and soak it all up and I'm trying to have the rubber meets the road.

PLEASE!!!!

IS there anyone there to help me with a plan?

I know I may need many plans but as you can see I'm having trouble coming up with one, because we know I haven't done anything correct thus far.

BH,

My take on posts like yours is that there can be no recovery until both sides are absolutely honest with each other. Truth is like the leveling of a building site before the house is started, it is not an option but is necessary.

Has your H committed to telling you the truth, from what you wrote it seems like you are committed to telling him all.

I'm not exhonerating you but it sound like you H comes from a family where lying is a way of life.

God Bless
Gamma