Just focusing on meeting his top ENs. Also make sure that you let him know that you are willing to reconcile when he chooses to end the affair. Let him know that his affair is harmful to you. As long as you did it in a non-LBing way and you don't dwell on it or get into an argument, you will be sticking to Plan A.

Have you made any strides in planning for Plan B?

I started doing some plan B planning but was trying to enjoy the weekend with him.

We had some good steps and bad steps this weekend. Saturday was really bad.

Then yesterday we spent some time together. He doesn't want me to Plan A. I still am going to to some extent but he feels like it's not real. I think it makes him more uncomfortable. I explained to him that I wanted to be a good wife and I wanted to do these things for him. Then we talked about how I used to cook for him and I used to do these things. He tried to tell me that he didn't need me to meet his EN. He didn't use those words of course but that's basically what he said. But then when I told him that I wanted to meet his ENs and told him what they were he didn't disagree. I didn't say emotional needs or anything but I got the point across.

So then last night he comes in my room and we talk. We both agree that we want a loving marriage. We have both seen our parents especially his live thier lives as I love you but I'm not in love with you. He says hes not in love with me. We talked about several things andit was good. He is still unsure about what he wants to do. But he says he feels weird staying in the house and thathe used to be really happy in the house. I made it clear agian that I want us to be happy. He admits that he is not happy when he leaves. I tried to get out of him whatwould make him happy. But he says he doesnt know. He admits that he thinks he could love me agian but doesn't know how to. And even admits that when he's home there are moments when he is happy. Which I know because I feel those moments. And he still cares for me tremendously. But he doesn't want the life his parents have. Together but not really in love.

Anyway. I know alot of what he said has affair fog written all over it but it seems like maybe he is breaking through the fog a little. He even apologized for being so indecisive. Unforetunately she will be back in town today. He tried agian to claim that she is not the enemy. I made it clear to him that I don't trust her and don't want her around. He is battling in his mind and is having a hard time. Anyway I think I will continue plan A for two more weeks then move into plan B. However I am going to not be quite so obvious in my plan A I think he thinks I am trying too hard.

My Plan B letter. First draft:

This is very difficult for me, I have gone over the words I have written here a million times in my head. �Please read what I have written and remember that everything I have written is heartfelt, I have so much love for you and I want you to remember that as we go through this difficult time in our lives.�

I would like to acknowledge and apologize for my part in the demise of our marriage. I neglected your needs, and failed to give you what you needed many times. I know that this is the root of your problems and the reason you no longer have the same feelings for me. �I have said this before, and I want to say it again: I want to do whatever I can to put our marriage back together in a mutually satisfying way. I feel that I have learned from my mistakes and have found ways to be the type of woman that I hope you would be proud to call your wife, as I have so many times felt pride in calling you my husband. I want to be able to put the past behind us, and build a better life together one that will truly be filled with love and happiness.�

The past few months have been a difficult passage of time for me, and I know it has been for you as well. There were times when I felt that we were making strides in the right direction and then suddenly we would take another step back. I am constantly feeling the hurt and pain when I don't know where you are, or when/if you'll be home. We have somehow misplaced our foundation of trust and respect and I want it back. Lately I have been trying to find the strength I need to get through this and I believe I have made positive steps with myself. However, in the past I tried (and failed) to endure the hurt and pain, I now see that it is soon to drain my love for you. Until you can truthfully and honestly return home and work with me on rebuilding our marriage, I will avoid seeing you. This is to protect my feelings for you and our chances at reconciliation. If we continue as we are now, there would be nothing left.�

I want us to be a team, and restore our marriage together. I want you to know that no matter how bad the past was, no matter how ugly, we can get past it. Look inside yourself and find the strength we will need to do this.�

I want to grow old with you. I loved you more than life itself while we were together, and I continue to do so as I write this. When you find yourself ready and willing to truly and fully commit to our marriage, I will be ready and willing to discuss our future. I truly believe we can be happy and have a better relationship than we had before one that will last a lifetime.�

Comments?

Thanks.

Remember to add "and until you end all contact with OW" let him know that their will be some things he will need to do before he comes home. Such as...

NC letter
Transparency
Lie detector test
Counsel with the Harleys
15 hours of UA time
ETC...

I thought I saw somewhere that you should have a second conditions to be met letter to give WH when he does decide he wants to recover.

But I do need to add the NC with OW part in the letter probably.

Of course you will need to state that the affair hurt you badly. You should include some happy memories. Remember, this is possibly the last love letter you will write to your H.

I did have an addendum about finances and children and then another one with some basic requirements that my WH would need to meet for me to break PLan B.

Take another stab at it. I am sure there will be others who will comment on here as well.

Here is my Plan B letter, it is pretty much from SAA.


I also made sure I sent a copy to OW's email with the added line This way, there was no way he could spin it to say that he was leaving me to finally be with her. And she knew that I would still be sticking around. HEY, I think I just figured out why she always comes with him when he drops off and picks up our children. HAHAHAHAHAHA

I know this a hard time, but it really will get better.

He is still insisting that there is nothing going on with OW. So I don't know how much I want to put it there. I stated my case saying that it is the only conclusion I can draw and that I know that when he is leaving he is at her house an it eats me up inside. He ended up there the other night and I triedto just ignore it but ended up calling him late when I couldn't sleep. Which was stupid but he answered I asked him one question why he didn't come home. Instead of answering he just got in the car and came home. Then told me that he has been asking for space and I wasn't giving it to him. And he would stay at the house if I would give him space. He insisted there was nothing going on with OW. I want to believe him and trust him but I can't. I told him that he is sure making it look like there is something going on and that all his actions point to it. Probably LB but he needed to understand my point.

So anyway I swore to leave him alone and he actually came home last night at a decent hour. I didn't even see him or talk to him. And just now saw him for the first time this morning. I talked to him once yesterday and it was a need to know. If this is what he wants is me giving him space I will. I know it goes agianst MB but Plan A wasn't working even when I was doing good and not LB. I think this will be a modified Plan B. He still is living in the house. I think I will do a as long as you come home I will give you space if you leave I am going to come find you and call you and you won't get space. But I do know he is still looking at apartments. He swears the separation is what he needs that "the reading he's done" says that if one partner is unsure of the marriage they should separate themselves and see how they feel.

I think I going to go as far as not doing his laundry or dishes. He will notice eventually and when he asks which I doubt he will I'll just say in the nicest way possible I am giving you space. By the way I wouldn't be doing this except for te thing he got mad at was me cooking him dinner. He didn't want me to cook him dinner the other day.

I'm sure you all are going to bombard me with you shouldn't do that and blah blah but Plan A was making it worse. Anyway I am getting Plan B in order still. If the space seems to work over the next two weeks I may try adding in some plan A stuff little by little. I did do the touching thing the other night and I think I am going to this morning. I am gong to touch him arm and thank him for coming home last night.

I will let the vets give you the 2X4's

Need to vent...
This morning he wakes me up and says he needs a ride to his car. It was pretty early and he was not very nice. So I get up and get some clothes on and he is basically tapping his foot waiting on me. Then we get in the car and he actually talks to me a little. When I drop him off he says nothing no bye no thanks. Not that I expected him to.

So I have always been clear that I don't mind driving him and picking him up if he's drinking. Of course I was usually there to just bring him home before. What's really weird was where I took him was not exactly a drinking establishment. It was a restaurant. I just don't see him getting drunk at this particular place.

Anway point is I think he was trying to make me mad. But it didn't work. I'm a little annoyed hence the venting but I'm really not even that mad. I know OW takes him to his car probably on a regular basis. So he was hoping I would get mad. But what happens when he's living by himself? I guess he just has to not get drunk. I wonder if he has thought about that.

Anyway in the car was the most I have talked to him in two days and that was a two mile drive so not exactly a conversation.

So. He has not stayed at OW agian. Which is good. He has agreed to dinner with me once a week. I plan to use this time to Plan A big time. Other than that we talk a little here and there about small stuff. He is mostly nice. He has barely seen OW in a couple weeks.

I believe he is in this state of doesn't want to leave but doesn't want to stay. Right now things are okay. We actually have had some fun together a couple times. I need to continue Plan A a little longer. For my sake. But I am going to sit him down a some point soon and say I'm not going to live like this. I want a husband not a roomate. I have thought about what I want to say and some of it is a little plan b letter like. I am under a lot of stress this week with work but after Friday that will be better. After that I am going to plan carefully what to say and maybe just go straight into plan b and do a letter. I want to do this carefully. I think he still wants to be married to me. But I need to get rid of OW of course. I have tried to make that clear but I'm not sure he fully understands it. He is keeping up the there is nothing going on thing going. But I am carefully and secretly keeping track of his whereabouts and have a few people on my side doing so as well. I pretty much know when he is with her which that time has decreased big time.

I'm keeping track of everything. It's weird. I read all this stuff about cake eaters. I don't feel like hes cake eating. He doesn't have me and doesn't want me (but doesn't want to leave) and he's not really getting his needs met at all hardly. I try but he refuses most of my attempts. And he is probably getting few met by OW but hes not really spending time with her either. And there's no missing time. He's in the limbo. Which isn't good for either of us. Which is why I plan on laying it all out I guess in a plan B.

So I realize that nobody here wants to help me anymore but here it goes...

So I have been plan A as much as possible. I slip sometimes though. Well a couple weeks ago things started to escalate. Somedays he seems happy and like he wants to be with me and others he hates my guts. I am trying to Plan A until he finds his own place then I will start to plan B.

He is very upset that I have told people. And one day I was upset and sent something to OW. He was upset when he found out and left the house for 3 days. When he came back he refused to tell me where he was and said he had been so mad when he left he was going to leave me. I asked him why he came back and he couldn't answer me. Than he said he was tired of the accusations and that there was nothing going on between him and OW(I still don't have hard evidence) I do t believe him. I want more than anything to be wrong but I know he is. He said that OW was very upset because its not true and she called a friend who then called him and yelled at him for what I did. I said why didn't she yell at me? He didn't answer.

So anyway we did not spend the holiday together. He went to his parents and I to mine. Our parents still don't know anything. I planned on telling my parents the truth if they asked but they didn't. And obviously he didn't tell his parents either because his dad invited himself to our house for the remainder of the weekend. Friday night and last night he slept in our bed because his dad was here. He said he was not looking forward to pretending around his dad yet he pretended. He had told me before he doesn't care what his parents think but that obviously not true.

If he is so miserable with me why hasn't he left yet?

So he messed up. He has been very careful not to call her on his phone very often. He uses skype. The only way I know this is I saw a payment for skype and why else would he be buying skype minutes? But I saw a strange number on His phone bill a quick google search of the number revealed a couple with the last name of OW who are obviously her parents. Luckily her parents are very involved in different things because their number is everywhere on the Internet. I have the name number and address and more (no email though) I also was able to find her brother on facebook by finding some college info on him related to their parents.

I know everyone says you have to expose to everyone and leave no one out. I just can't make myself tell my parents or his parents. He has already said that my going and "talking to people at his work" is the biggest thing he was mad at. I can't imagine how mad he will be if I contact his family.

I know you all are frustrated with me. But what do I do. I think things are worse because of the exposure I have done. And he keeps repeating that his problem is with me. He said that I was making him unhappy. He refuses to do any kind of counseling or anything that might help us reconnect. Even our night together once a week he ignores me as much as possible. He doesn't want anything to do with me but he doesnt want to leave either.

Sorry for the babble I just don't know what to do any more.

The only thing that is missing is you have not exposed. Why don't you expose then people will help you otherwise we can not help you if you have not exposed yet, because that is the first step on repairing your marriage.

But the exposure I have done has made things so much worse. I am so afraid of what will happen. But am finally at a place where I think I can handle anything that is going to happen. He keeps putting it all on me. And refuses to just admit what is going on. If I mean as little to him as he says why won't he just fess up.

Ok I guess I need to breath in and just do the exposure. Any tips on telling family? I don't want my family to hate him and I don't want his family to be dissapooitned. I feel that the people I told ended up pushing him away and he went straight to guess who and his one other friend. There are a number of people he says he's spent time with who know everything who have tried talking to him but he refuses to talk. I also found out that before I exposed he was pretending like everything was okay.

WTD,

"So I realize that nobody here wants to help me anymore but here it goes..."

Don't get down on yourself! It appears to me that you are trying your hardest to survive this. It is normal for you to be scared if not terrified but, it does seem time to move forward. In my humble opinion you need to dig even deeper and own your life. Empower yourself, take control of what you can control and no matter what happens you will feel whole knowing you have done your best. Show yourself, your God and this world that you have faith enough to try.

WTD - as long as you allow him to bully you into silence, he will go right on having both a wife and a girlfriend. He's not trying to choose between you - he wants BOTH. And that's what he's got right now.

Your marriage CAN survive his temporary anger at having his dirty little secret exposed.

Your marriage CANNOT survive his dating and sleeping with another woman.

That's why everyone here is pushing hard for you to stop protecting a pair cheaters and be honest with everyone about what's really going on.

The cheaters are relying on you being too embarrased and too scared of your husband's anger to say anything. Please stop helping them and help your marriage instead.

whattodo, typically posters will stop advising when it becomes evident that their advice will not be followed.

You've got thirty pages here, dating back a few months. Can you bring us up to speed on what, if anything, you have done?

I know you exposed him at work. I'm not sure why you did that, when you didn't (and still don't) have solid evidence of an affair.

What snooping have you done to confirm an affair?

I have kept a log of when he is not home and when I find his car at her house. I know he has talked to her on the phone Because I have the phone records. no access to email but even if I did he would delete any emails from her. He is being very careful. He spent several nights at her house which he claims were because he had nowhere else to stay. He lied to me on one(at least) that he was at something for work and I found him with her.

No I don't have any solid proof of a physical affair. But I do have proof that the relationship is something he does not want me or others knowing about. It is my opinion that if he feels he needs to keep anything a secret from me (and his other friends parents coworkers) that there is something inappropriate about it.

He of course will disagree and say he shouldn't have to tell me. He may be still living at the house but he has no feelings for me or so he says.

You do not need any further "proof" of your H's inappropriate relationship with OW.....he has repeatedly for months placed his "friendship" with her above your marriage. He has twisted you in the wind, blaming you, making you crazy with his his indecision, back and forth, home and not home. You have placed no significant boundaries on what you will tolerate, so he continues to treat you any way he wants to and you continue to twist yourself into a prezel trying to figure out how to best deal with the constant craziness he's bringing into your life.

Until you are ready to say "no more" "I deserve better" and "I can't be around you, talk to you or have any contact unless she is out of your life completely and you commit to serious steps to recover our marriage", you will be at his mercy and he will make no serious efforts to be a husband to you.

For some reason you have let his "she's just a friend" and "you're trying to control me and who I can be friends with" totally intimidate you. I'd bet half the betrayed spouses on this site have gotten the "just a friend" excuse. You have so much proof that he's involved with OW....but apparently only catching them sleeping together will totally convince you....but really....it's not the only thing that makes his behavior wrong. You are crossing into the realm of him emotionally abusing you by things he says and how he treats you. At some point you have to summon the self-love and respect for your own dignity to cut him out of your life unless and until he totally reverses his behavior towards you and his totally ends any contact with OW.

The ball is not in his court alone. You have power. You just won't use it.

I agree I have not been treated right. He has said things to me(during fights) that were completely uncalled for, such as "you're not worth it"

Goths reason I came back here after a month was because today he got mad when he found I had gone to dinner with a wife of his friend. when he found the credit card charge he asked and I told the truth. I could have lied I could have made sometng up about why I had gone to that restaurant I could have paid with cash in the first place but I told the truth. I had told him that day I was no longer talking to people about our problems. I caused some issues for him at work.
He got mad. He was gone all day. I assume he was with her but when he came home he had picked up fast food so he didn't eat dinner with her. I didn't feel like snooping. As you say I have enough evidence seeing him with her only hurts me at this point. I will continue to monitor but I'm not going crazy over it anymore.

So after he came home he was angry and asked why I did it. I explained. He didn't really care and what was said is not important. Than he said that was the final straw and he was done. I just said okay and that I wasn't going to force him. Than I started to say something and said nevermind it doesn't matter. He kept pushing and wanted to know what i was thinking. Finally I asked do you see any hope, he of course said know because he is angry right now. I said okay well before this afternoon did you still think there was a chance for us. He said yes but I go back and forth with how I feel(I already knew this but felt good to hear it straight from his mouth) then I said well you know I want to make this work and blah blah. Then I said but as long as you are friends with OW it will not work. Whether it is or isn't anything going on and whether or not you realize it the relationship has crossed a line. I said more than that but you get the idea. He responded you think an ultimatum is going to he the situation. I reminded him that he pushed me to tell him what was on my mind to which he didn't have anything to say. After that he walked away. He obviously sees no hope now.

Point is unless he is will to recommit and take steps to improve our marriage I will not push him anymore. I was resistant to him leaving or even the thought of a separation at first now I have put the ball in his court. I made it very clear to him that I want to reconcile and that it is he who has the decision to make. He wants to be able to tell people it just didnt work out. He wants it not to be his fault. He is trying extremely hard to make it either my decision or mutual.

I am willing to do what it takes. Before I was scarred embarrassed and everything else that goes along with it. Yes I was not meeting his needs and I have put a lot of blame on myself for that. But I also know that it takes two to break it and he is just as much to blame (before the affair) but now I am read to work through our problems and he is not. And yes I have told him this.

I really appreciate everything everyone here says. I know I should have listened before but I was and still am scared of what is goi to happen. I guess now maybe I realize this is real and if I don't do something about it I will never get past it. Ugh sorry for the long post

PS he is convinced I don't care about him. Background story may be long:

So back when things were not bad we had OW and another friend over for dinner/ drinking. I am pretty sure I have told is story already but I will agian just incase. So somehow OW and I ended up alone. She started asking me about how I knew it was true love and whatnot. At this point I wanted to try and be friends with her. I was stupid and ignored my own feelings that there was a spark and tried to be friends with her. Which actually she did the same to me. We actually could get along in an other circumstance. So anyway I told her how I just knew that H was meant for me and I knew I loved him. So then she asked if he was ever sweet (H not exactly most romantic person and it is obvious to any outsider) I told her he was mist of the time not sweet but I was okay with that because it's not like I didn't know it and I didn't really want an overlly sweet or romantic. And that I loved him for who he was and that he had his moments and that the way things were for us worked, for us. She went on to say how she didn't think she could deal with that that she needed someone to sweep her off her feet I guess. I went on to say (I know youre all thinking WTD shut the f*** up) how I didn't need someone to be all romantic and that I liked the way he was and that he had his moments which I went on to tell her one of these moments. I was not exactly sober during this conversation and didn't realize till the next day the weirdness of the conversation.
This stuck in my head. Well the other day he told me the icing on the cake was when OW told him that I had said "it's a good thing I didnt want a someone who was sweet"
So she went and told him that I had said this (completely out of context) so I asked him if she also told him that I had said he had his moments and that it worked for us. He said no of courier but then said it didn't matter because it was the" icing on the cake."

Anyway really annoying that he doesn't see that she manipulated him.

So I also said something to him about how I understood what was going through his head. Not that I agreed with it but I understood why he would be unfaithful. Because I do I am pretty logical it makes sense to me. Yes wrong but still makes sense. But I dont understand why she would be with a married man. I told him this. I said I just don't understand the thought. What's in it for her. H took this to mean no one would want to be with him and that I don't think anyone would want to be with him beside me. So frustrating.

Sorry for long posts...