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Tawandabelle wrote:

Originally Posted By: Tawandabelle
Definitely the OWH should be told. If there is a work connection then there is a great letter on this site that can be used as a model to notify a supervisor. Also letting close friends or family members know can be a good way to help with accountability and support for the M.

As appealing and dramatic as it sounds, posting on people's walls or sending out mass status notices to all FB friends is legally shaky even WITH proof. It doesn't have to be a lie for someone to sue over it. I know this because I asked 2 attorneys that I work for who deal in areas of law that would apply. So the whole billboard and flyers dropped from planes idea really can cause some serious problems.

That being said, if there is someone who can help your H be accountable and can support both of you in recovery, having them in the loop can be a tremendous asset.


I asked

Originally Posted By: SugarCane
You see, what I don't understand is, if you agree that that OPS should be told and you don't issue legal warnings about that,

then how is it LEGALLY any different to tell other third parties?

How is it legal to tell a wife, but not legal to tell the wife's sister on FB?

Is it the telling (with proof) that is the problem, or is it Facebook that is the problem? If the latter, then how and why?

I am not questioning the appropriateness of exposure of FB walls, or of dropping flyers from planes (neither of which I have ever seen advocated here). I cannot see any reason to expose to minors not connected to the BS's family, or to old school friends that the OP hasn't seen in years, or to many other people.

I am questioning the legality.

We have seen some affairs halted after recommendations here to expose to key people via FB.

I have never heard of a case, here or IRL, where someone has successfully sued over FB exposure.

I would like to know the legal grounds on which someone could win a suit brought against FB exposure - where there is proof of an affair.

Does anyone know the answer to this?

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It is the public-ness of FB that sets it apart.

See, the thing is, many people have hundreds of friend on FB. Harley, the founder of this site, says to expose to those who will have influence over killing the affair and can be a support to the M. No one can tell me that all of those hundreds of people acheive that purpose. So, what, then is left as the purpose?

Again, the founder of this site has never explicitly said the blast hundreds of FB participants with exposure. Ever. And I think it is irresponsible to recommend legally tenuous strategies to a complete stranger just because it appeals to OUR sense of justice (or, let's be honest, vicarious vengeance).

I fully expect that this will (again) invite mots of ire on my head. That's okay. I have finally reached the place where what God knows about me, what DH knows about me, and what I know about myself are enough.

If the purpose of exposure is to kill the A and support recovery, then I challenge one person to give me a non-vengeful reason to post it for 374 people to see.

Again, I am going by the consistent in-context writing and words of Dr. Harley, not a passing remark that somehow became the rule.

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I am guessing that a private message through FB or an email would be fine legally for exposure. Those messages are a private exchange much like what a phone call would be.

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Yes, a private message is fine. Posting on FB is considered the legal equivalent of putting it on the front page of the paper. And while it may be TRUE...and probably a WS would NOT win a case, the legal system could really do a number on a BS and a recovering M...and is that really the goal? Maybe it is, if making the WS pay is the goal...it just depends on the person's true motivation.

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Originally Posted By: Tawandabelle

As appealing and dramatic as it sounds, posting on people's walls or sending out mass status notices to all FB friends is legally shaky even WITH proof. It doesn't have to be a lie for someone to sue over it. I know this because I asked 2 attorneys that I work for who deal in areas of law that would apply. So the whole billboard and flyers dropped from planes idea really can cause some serious problems.



First off, no one here recommends posting it on people's walls. Normally that is not even possible because you have to be the person's FRIEND to do that and that is usually not the case. The REASON I don't recommend posting it on someone's wall is because it is not effective. Most people won't even see it, whereas, sending a private message to each of the OP/WS's facebook friends would be seen.

However, it is not illegal to expose truth to someone's friends and family. A person's facebook friends IS a collection of their most valued friends and family so it is the PERFECT scenario. We have had numerous affairs busted up this way.

Typically, we don't recommend taking out billboards or dropping fliers, although Steve Harley HAS recommended such tactics where it made sense.

I don't understand why there is so much concern about exposure when the real risk is the AFFAIR. Affairs can and do lead to much worse than legal action. They lead to nervous breakdowns, post traumatic stress disorder, suicides, divorce, destruction of families, ruination of children lives. THAT IS THE REAL THREAT PEOPLE.

So I am amazed that anyone would even bother for second about the very far reaching risk of legal ramifications over exposure. Since when is it illegal to tell truth in this country? crazy I have YET to see a lawsuit on this forum over exposure, but I have seen MANY divorce lawsuits spring up over an affair. The reason is that most cheaters won't file suit because the charges are true and they don't want to see the proof trotted out in a courtroom.

There is RISK in absolutely everything we do in life. But this needs to be kept in perspective and the reality acknowledged that the "risk" of NOT EXPOSING is much, much greater.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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It really is possible to be for exposure and NOT agree about every single tiny facet. It really is. Anyone who is able to objectively read my story and postings knows I am 100% against infidelity, 100% in favor of taking full responsibility, and 100% in favor of accountability and honesty (including exposure to friends, family, and workplace when needed). You don't have to be pro-FB exposure to be pro-M or even pro-MB.

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Quote:
I would like to know the legal grounds on which someone could win a suit brought against FB exposure - where there is proof of an affair.


I think there is a perceived difference when exposing to a BS and to someone's friends on FB. Exposure to all their friends on FB, IMO, can be construed as an inflammatory act. You're putting it out there for the whole world to see. Exposing to the BS can be construed as a act of kindness toward the BS.

Handpicking the exposure targets on FB makes a difference, too. You're exposing to those who can exert pressure to end that A when you go with family and close friends. It may appear to be a harassing or inflammatory act when you expose en masse to all their contacts.

There have been cases where a WS has filed suit over a perceived loss of business, where they have business contacts who unfriended them after exposure. However, the evidence of truth about the affair pretty much killed the defamation claim. That's the bottom line: truth is a valid defense against a defamation claim.


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Originally Posted By: Tawandabelle
It is the public-ness of FB that sets it apart.

See, the thing is, many people have hundreds of friend on FB. Harley, the founder of this site, says to expose to those who will have influence over killing the affair and can be a support to the M. No one can tell me that all of those hundreds of people acheive that purpose. So, what, then is left as the purpose?

Again, the founder of this site has never explicitly said the blast hundreds of FB participants with exposure. Ever. And I think it is irresponsible to recommend legally tenuous strategies to a complete stranger just because it appeals to OUR sense of justice (or, let's be honest, vicarious vengeance).


Sorry, but you are wrong. First off, our facebook accounts are a collection of our closest family and friends. That is the best place to expose. What is it about "TELL EVERYONE" do you not get? crazy You can't come up with any valid reason NOT to expose on facebook other than it is "legally tenuous strategy" when the risk of a legal outcome is almost assured with adultery. ADULTERY is very legally risky because it almost always leads to divorce when stopped. If a facebook exposure stops affairs, then wouldn't that be the responsible thing to do?

Keep in mind that the more people who know about the affair, the more people to keep them accountable. There is no downside to this whatsoever.

Originally Posted By: Dr Harley
While most affairs die a natural death in less than two years, there are some that take much longer to die. That's one of the primary reasons that my first rule in surviving an affair is to never see or talk to the lover again -- even if the affair seems to have died a natural death. An affair can rekindle after it seems to be over. And to guarantee complete separation between the unfaithful spouse and the lover, extraordinary precautions must be taken, such as providing radical accountability and transparency. In many cases, I've encouraged couples I've counseled to change jobs or even move to another state to help create permanent separation.

Another suggestion I make to a couple struggling to restore their marriage after one of them had an affair is to make the affair public. Everyone should know what happened -- children, relatives, friends, and especially the children and spouse of the lover -- so that the affair is exposed to the light of day. What often makes affairs appealing is that it is done in secret. Most affairs become very unappealing once everyone knows about it.

So whether an affair is a one night stand, or has been going on for years, the basic rule for ending them are the same -- extraordinary precautions to guarantee permanent separation. But I will admit that the precautions used for long-term affairs are usually more extraordinary than those used for short-term affairs. I've helped many spouses overcome affairs that have lasted over ten years, but none of them have been easy.

Best wishes
Willard F. Harley, Jr.



Quote:
discuss the position I take on exposure in a new article that is available in the "Articles" section of the MB website. The article is entitled, "How to Survive an Affair" and it will be the new chapter 13 of His Needs, Her Needs that will be published in January 2011.

My position, that a betrayed spouse should tell everyone (children, friends, family, clergy, and the spouse of the lover) about the affair as part of an effort to shine the light of day on a horrible betrayal and to shake a lover lose in Plan A and Plan B, is something I've recommended since the 1970s. On our radio program, Joyce and I encourage betrayed spouses to expose the affair consistently. But it's been highly controversial, and not everyone in the MB program has agreed with me. Lately, however, there is increasing evidence from those who have followed my advice that in spite of it's risks, it's very effective. Support by those who can see the positive effects is growing.

The common scenario is that an unfaithful spouse can't decide whether to end the affair or end the marriage. The betrayed spouse is caught in limbo while this decision is contemplated, and that can take months or even years. To speed up the decision, and spare the betrayed spouse endless suffering, exposure is recommended. I recommend it in plan A, as soon as the affair is discovered. But it most certainly should be implemented in plan B when the unfaithful spouse separates. People that would provide support for that spouse if they knew the truth should be told. And it also helps the unfaithful spouse hurry along with his or her decision.



Originally Posted By: Dr Harley
There are many reasons for this recommendation, but the primary reason is based on my belief that the more people know about what I do in my most private moments, the safer I am to others. Infidelity is one of the most painful experiences one spouse can inflict on the other, and its far less likely to take place, or continue to take place, when everyone knows about it.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted By: prayingandprayin
I am guessing that a private message through FB or an email would be fine legally for exposure. Those messages are a private exchange much like what a phone call would be.


And that is what is recommended on this board. The recommendation is to handpick FB friends and send out a private message to them. Generally, we would exclude children and single people and go for family and married couples. Those are the most influential targets.

It is ridiculous to say we are telling people to mass blast facebook or post on the affairees wall because it is impossible to mass blast and ineffective to post on someone's wall [even if you did have access, which most usually don't]

I think just as in the case of the term "nuclear" some who know little about facebook have jumped to yet more hasty conclusions about facebook.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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i would stick to exposing to family members and very close friends to the family...

i have a friend who's going through a divorce due to his wife's affair and he had a web blog up detailing his experience and would post on FB...his lawyer advised him to take his blog down and limit his FB status updates in regard to his divorce...from what i gathered his wife and her lawyer where collecting information to be used against him, if their divorce went to trial.

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Originally Posted By: Tawandabelle
Yes, a private message is fine.


If posting a private message "is fine" then what is your beef? That is the only way TO expose on facebook. Like I said in my previous post, this seems to be a misunderstanding what a facebook exposure REALLY IS. Another feeding frenzy launched over on an anti-MB board based on wrong definitions. [to wit the term "nuclear" crazy ]

This is more of the same of some disgruntled posters whipping each other up into a feeding frenzy without ever getting the facts.

Quote:
Posting on FB is considered the legal equivalent of putting it on the front page of the paper.


Hello?? That is not recommended and I even told you this a couple of weeks ago. So why are you continuing to say it?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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I think my problem was twofold. First, when I was reading everyone, I was also reading friends, family, clergy, work. Second, I probably use FB differently than some people. I have some people as friends on FB that I haven;t seen since HS graduation, like glas I twirled with who I never even talk to IRL and have never even met DH. DH plays those silly games like Kingdoms of Camelot and Frontierville, so he has FB friends who are really just people he bought logs from for his log cabin (har har). If he cheated, me exposing to a knight on Kingdoms of Camelot would do no good. I'd have to go through and cull people for it to be effective.

So I guess I was just thinking from that perspective. If the only people on our lists were the 20 or so people who really are a part of our lives, then it would make sense to just send a message to the whole list.

I don't know if that makes any sense. Also, and this is slightly different but it's the only analogy I could come up with, I lost my tenured taching job last spring. Unbeknownst to me, my administrator had been "building a case" from the time I told her I had bipolar disorder. I was told by more than a couple of people that I should fight it based on the Americans with Disabilities Act. I seriously considered it. But my kids went to school in that system, my DH was about to finish his PhD and was already looking for jobs, and I was not extremely healthy. I had to weigh the potential legal victory with the price of fighting it. In the end, I resigned with the written understanding that I would receive excellent recommendations.

probably a BS would win a legal battle over exposure. But if an A is already over (which was the case in this original sitch), the couple wants to recover, etc.....would the stress of a trial/legal battle be beneficial? If the WS is repentant....what is the benefit?

That was what I was responding to. It would be easy for me to sit up very straight in this chair and say, "post that A right now!" But am I going to be there to cover legal costs? Am I going to be there to help pay the rent if someone loses their job? When I advise a person...it is a real live person with a family, kids, bills, etc. I don't ever want to find out that my encouragement of any kind of "gotcha" measure ends up causing even more suffering for a real live person.

I remember sitting in my youth minister's office at 17 crying because I had been stripped of my youth duties....because I went to the prom. There is no Biblical edict against the prom, but once legalism took hold.....At the time, I cried and "repented" and stood up before the entire group and apologized for going to the dance, which of course was a sin.

I'm not 17 anymore.

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Originally Posted By: mr_anderson
i would stick to exposing to family members and very close friends to the family...

i have a friend who's going through a divorce due to his wife's affair and he had a web blog up detailing his experience and would post on FB...his lawyer advised him to take his blog down and limit his FB status updates in regard to his divorce...from what i gathered his wife and her lawyer where collecting information to be used against him, if their divorce went to trial.


I agree with this advice about blogging on facebook, but that is not the issue. The issue is exposing to facebook friends and family via private message. We have 3-4 marriages that are in recovery right now because they killed the affair this way.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Quote:
Can I post on a social networking site that she had an A with my H?


Actually, this question does not specify private messaging. Posting in most vernaculars means posting to a status, not a private message.

I would agree that private messaging would be very effective.

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Originally Posted By: Tawandabelle
probably a BS would win a legal battle over exposure. But if an A is already over (which was the case in this original sitch), the couple wants to recover, etc.....would the stress of a trial/legal battle be beneficial? If the WS is repentant....what is the benefit?


What ARE you talking about? Where has someone suggested to a BS that she do a facebook exposure on an affair that is already OVER?

Quote:
I think my problem was twofold. First, when I was reading everyone, I was also reading friends, family, clergy, work. Second, I probably use FB differently than some people. I have some people as friends on FB that I haven;t seen since HS graduation, like glas I twirled with who I never even talk to IRL and have never even met DH. DH plays those silly games like Kingdoms of Camelot and Frontierville, so he has FB friends who are really just people he bought logs from for his log cabin (har har). If he cheated, me exposing to a knight on Kingdoms of Camelot would do no good. I'd have to go through and cull people for it to be effective.


On the other hand, when we have done exposures on the OP's facebook page, the EMBARRASSMENT of exposing her to any and all has run many of them OFF. You never know who will have the most influence over her, so you can't very well "hand pick" a few. Better to hit as many as possible! In the case of an OP, it is good for ALL his/her friends to know so they can watch their own spouses around him/her. We tell them in that exposure letter:

Quote:
I would ask that you use your influence with Skanky to persuade her to leave my husband alone. You should also watch your own husbands around her because she is no friend to marriage.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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I made an incorrect assumption. I assumed that this thread was started as an offshoot of a thread where the A was over and the OP was asking about posting to a social networking site. So I was still thinking in terms of that thread. Sorry for the confusion.

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Originally Posted By: Tawandabelle
Quote:
Can I post on a social networking site that she had an A with my H?


Actually, this question does not specify private messaging. Posting in most vernaculars means posting to a status, not a private message.

I would agree that private messaging would be very effective.


A facebook exposure, as we define it here, is DONE VIA private messaging. However, if there is a social network where it would be more effective posting to a status, that should be done. For example, marriedforever killed her H's affair by exposing on a runner's website. [the skank and her H were members] She followed up by sending emails to all the OW's fellow teachers. Result? AFFAIR KILLED, MARRIAGE SAVED!


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Problem solved.

Last edited by seekingbalance; 12/06/10 02:16 PM.
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Originally Posted By: Tawandabelle
Quote:
Can I post on a social networking site that she had an A with my H?


Actually, this question does not specify private messaging. Posting in most vernaculars means posting to a status, not a private message.

I would agree that private messaging would be very effective.


And here is what she was told:
Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
Is she married? You can expose the affair to all those people as long as you have proof, but I don't know WHY you would. Doing so would just invite trouble into your home for no good reason.

BUT...if she is married, I would most certainly tell her H. If not, leave it alone!


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted By: seekingbalance
Originally Posted By: SugarCane
I would like to know the legal grounds on which someone could win a suit brought against FB exposure - where there is proof of an affair.


Off the top of my head: defamation, invasion of privacy, intentional infliction of emotional distress, negligent infliction of emotional distress, negligent representation, & tortious interference with contract.


You know what? There is risk in everything, isn't there? I can be sued for wearing red on Sunday, but what are the odds? And so far on this forum, I have YET to see one lawsuit from exposure in 10 years, but have seen untold lawsuits that arose from adultery. I have seen numerous marriages SAVED using exposure and many marriages KILLED from not exposing.

Seekingbalance, I can understand why a wayward wife such as yourself would have an emotional investment in keeping adultery secret, but it has proven to be the most effective weapon we have against adultery. The greatest risk to board members is NOT exposing.

Dr Willard Harley has saved thousands of marriages using these tactics with no fallout:

Quote:
Exposure is very likely to end the affair, lifting the fog that has overcome the unfaithful spouse, helping him or her become truly repentant and willing to put energy and effort into a full marital recovery. In my experience with thousands of couples who struggle with the fallout of infidelity, exposure has been the single most important first step toward recovery. It not only helps end the affair, but it also provides support to the betrayed spouse, giving him or her stamina to hold out for ultimate recovery.



"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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