Happy birthday! If you put your birthday in your profile, it automatically adds a little cake next to your name in all your posts, on your b-day.

Yes where are ya?

Thanx!!

Sorry I haven't been around. I was using my MIL's laptop while our PC was broken and she took it back so my BIL can take it to Mexico I have been trying to pop on with other computers when possible. H stayed up all night fixing ours last night, YEH!

Not much new to report. Everything is going well. H hasn't gone to, or even really talked to OW since their falling out, Double YEH!

Apparently I spoke too soon

OW picked him up for a "drive" last night, he was gone three hours. I think I dealt with it fairly well when he got home he gave me a nice back rub and asked if I was mad, I simply said no but informed him I was upset with him.

I'm assuming his mom gave him a piece of her mind about it today though. I'm happy she is on my side, but when she does this she doesnt realize it causes problems between us and pushes him closer to OW. His FB status is something regarding people minding their own business about who he hangs out with and what he does with his time. I commented on it, I tried to be respectful but Im sure it will tick him off anyhoo, this is what I said:

"It's usually the ones willing to give their opinion that care about you and love you the most. Although some opinions can be delivered with more respect, they are generally not meant to attack you but to protect you and others that may be affected by your actions. When you have a family your choices are not just about you anymore."

I know I'm supposed to be going into Plan B but Plan B kind of really scares me. Last year when we separated and went a couple weeks without seeing each other, he claimed to not love me, think about me or miss me. He's the one that has wanted out for the past four years. It seems like Plan B would be doing him a favour.

Because of this I have been trying to get him to give us one year to really work on our marriage. He says we've done this before (and we have -several times- but we always fell back into old habits) this time I think we have the tools and knowledge we need to be successful. He agreed the other day to give it three months, do you think this is wise?

If he continues to keep OW in the wings, obviously I will have no choice but to Plan B to protect myself.

Plan B would be doing YOU a favor. If he didn't love you, miss you or think about you the last time you separated, why is he back?

EXACTLY what MB said. If he didn't want to be there, he wouldn't be. Telling him that you are giving him 3 months to figure things out is giving him his time to see if OW really does go to Ireland and if her relationship lasts. You are being used as the back up plan. You are there right now, so he will stick around.

Does he have a job? Is he going to go look for work? How is he going to pay for things that you and your children need? Is he even going to just pay for HIMSELF?

When you are going to "try" what is he going to do?

You CAN NOT stay in Plan A for 3 months. You will NOT do a good Plan A and you may as well have just filed for a D a few months ago than do a half azzed version of MB.

I am sorry that I am dishing out these 2x4's but I want you to understand what you are doing. I am your friend, IRL. I want what is best for YOU. I KNOW that what is best for you is Plan B.

Get that Plan B letter ready. Get the plans all figured out. You should be getting into Plan B BEFORE Christmas. You should be in Plan B by Dec20th. Please. Do this for those girls. Believe me, Plan B isn't easy to get into but once you are in it for a while, it does WONDERS.

Ditto what Scotty said, every word of it. A few "!!!!!!!!!!" thrown in for good measure.

I know that I trust Scottys 2X4s, because she has an awesome gal, and friend you can count on to speak the truth in love.

Why don't you? I agree with everything MB and scotty said also, and to add to that my own opinion. ..

You have a problem with making Him grow up in your presence, and act like a Man should. I don't know what kind of boo-hoo crap he is selling, but what is troubling me, and my concern, is you are buying it.

You are in a great place with many people who are interested in your well-being, and not here just to pick on you, so don't go there if you are tempted to do so, and please..please...don't think, "We just don't understand" or that your situation is "Different".

Find out why you don't stand up for yourself, if you realize you have a problem, or don't find out why..Either way you have to trust somebody besides your WH,(thats why your here right?), and take action.

Plan B is the smartest, kindest, most productive thing you can do for both of you, and you have support personally while in it here. Plan doormat is gonna just get you more sorrow, and guess what?, your not loving WH cuz you cave.

I am sorry if this sounds rough, I know you wont break, and please take some advice from people who can see the mess your in?

Trust me on this, you are blind right now.

I had another thought. You WANT to save your marriage right? What do you think will happen if your WH depletes your love bank? I will tell you. You won't want to recover your marriage anymore. While I was in Plan A, I thought that before Christmas was the wrong thing to do, but I had faith in Pepperband, and MB. I felt like finding this place was the answer to my prayers and what good would those prayers have been if I didn't DO anything that i was told to do. THAT is the reason I try to stick to the plans as closely as possible.

I still have a lot of love left for my WH. If he comes home, I hope it will be enough for recovery. If he doesn't come home, I have a lot of healing to do. I am on my way, and it is a MARATHON not a sprint. This is what I hope for you.

They say that misery loves company. Get outta that misery and join the ones who have come before you and do a SOLID Plan B.

You can get it all figured out before Dec20th. Don't be his back-up plan. Only accept you as his FIRST AND ONLY choice.

Yay and double triple ditto. If He wont tell/show you that you are worth it, we will.

**NOTE** - I've quoted Scotty but responses are for everyone, not just her


The "Ireland" thing isn't supposed to happen until next August. I doubt it will even happen as shes with a different man on a monthly basis. But it IS true, its totally in her character to do something so stupid as to up root her child and move half way around the world.


As I've stated before, neither of us are currently working. We both lost our jobs over the summer. He is currently looking for work and fixing computers and doing websites as much as possible to make money until he finds a full time job. I am going back to school in January.


Doing a Half azzed version of MB? Plan A and B are not for every situation. Sorry but I have read both SAA and LB and I do NOT agree with everything Dr. Harley says, he has some good guidelines but some things are down right contradictory. Its like saysing "Hey I don't like that you do this so get out until you stop" and then turns around and says not to "Punish" your spouse for behaviour you don't like. Plan B sounds like punishment to me and thats exactly how it would be interpreted. I've said before he is NOT sleeping with this girl, believe what you will but I know for a fact he is not. If anything he may have an emotional attatchment to her, however he doesn't understand if his friendship is platonic why I would have a problem and why he should give up his friend. Honestly I've been in the same situation, so maybe this is why I somewhat understand his thinking. All he will hear is "Hey, I don't like your choice of friends so theres the door!". This is my life and my marriage and I prefer to work things out together as married couples should. Don't get me wrong, I do understand the reasoning behind Plan B and yes may have to go there in the future but I will not be pushed to do something I am not comfortable with. I am not only here for advice but also an outlet.

You guys make Plan A sound like something that stops. We should be in Plan A for life, even when we're in Plan B. Plan A isn't just about showing my H that life here would be better than the alternative, its also about making changes for myself and keeping these changes throughout life. Because I am not currently doing Plan B doesn't mean I'm Half Azzing MB. I have fully incorperated many areas of MB in my marriage and have been very successful. I have also noticed H has followed my lead on many of these and several areas of our marriage have improved.

I'm going to try to keep my cool here, but seriously? Going into Plan B before Christmas is NOT doing anything for my girls! I'm sorry but it seems EXTREMELY selfish, heartless and hurtful to do such a thing right before Christmas. Doing this will NOT save my marriage as H will see it as being spiteful. Doing this will NOT protect me as I will not be able to live with the guilt of doing something so terrible to my H and kids during the Holidays.

It is the time away from home and his Independant life that has caused much heartache and resentment in our marriage. He has not slept at OW house since the last time I reported it and has not even gone to visit her with the exception of her stopping here the other night. It will take time to wean her out of his life. He also has a male friend that he spends a great deal of time with, often wouldn't come home til 2 or 3 AM, he has also stopped spending so much time over there. He is trying and disagree if you want but I will not "punish" him as long as he is trying.

I unlike you, am not going to be able to keep my cool about THIS.

I went to Plan B, last year, on DECEMBER 18th. That is ONE WEEK BEFORE CHRISTMAS. It was NOT in ANY WAY an "EXTREMELY SELFISH, HEARTLESS AND HURTFUL" thing to do. On the contrary. For my children, it was the most loving thing that I could do. They needed to see that when someone is completely disrespectful towards you, you don't sit around and let them treat you horribly. You DO something about it. You enforce your boundaries. My boundary was that I was NOT going to accept anyone else in our marriage, PERIOD. Boundary crossed, logical consequence followed. Could I have chosen a different day of the year? Certainly. BUT, January would be too close to DS7's bday. February is too close to our dating anniversary/valentine's day. March is too close to easter. April is too close to WH's bday, and so on and so on until there is NEVER a good time to go to Plan B. And honestly, the best time to go to Plan B is when it follows a GREAT Plan A and BEFORE your LB is drained.

I have NEVER seen DrH describe Plan B as a "PUNISHMENT" for the WS. I have understood it to be the best possible way to protect the BS from the ABUSE of an affair. It is also a way to wait out the affair or prepare for a D, if the affair doesn't end.

Whether your WH is having "just" an EA or a full blown PA does NOT matter when it comes to MB. That is the beauty of it. MB is to be used to recover your marriage from an A whether it be EA OR PA. And there is NO WAY that this A is only ONE WAY. OW is just as much into this as your WH. Your WH is meeting some of her needs as well, just as she meeting some of his.

I understand that you are seeing results in Plan A. That is the point. And you are doing a half-azzed MB if you aren't using THE WHOLE PROGRAM. If you truly believe that there is NO AFFAIR(continued affair after 4 weeks of Plan A suggests that you go to Plan B), then are you two following the POJA? UA? PORH? and all of the other parts of MB?

Do you have any quotes from DrH that suggests that you plan A FOREVER? Because I KNOW that I can find quotes where he used to suggest 6 months for EVERYONE and then changed it to 3-4 weeks for women.

You always seem to defend your WH's actions and non-actions when someone brings up a shortcoming of his. You should look at WHY people are saying this to you. Remember that YOU are the one who asked for help. The people, me included, have only been trying to help YOU. We are a friend to MARRIAGE. If you choose to use this place as a venting place, let us know. That way, we won't try to suggest ways to change your sitch by using MB. I am here to help someone understand MB better and use it to have a SPECTACULAR marriage. Lemme know how I can help.

BTW, I NEVER doubted that OW would commit a completely selfish act, such as moving to Ireland to be with a guy, I just said that your WH would just be sticking around with you to see if OW would really go. Maybe he believes that he will be able to convince her to stay.

You were so happy about the news when you received it because your WH was ANGRY at OW for it. He seems to have gotten over it pretty easily.

Also, have you exposed this to EVERYONE? You can't do a Plan A with no stick or else it is Plan Doormat and it shows your WH that you will accept ANY behaviour from him with NO CONSEQUENCES. That is a true disservice to you and your marriage.

Scotty, as usual, is spot on. Jealousy, please listen.

I'm going to start here because this is the reason I had said my responses were not all directed to you. Someone, (can't remember who), had said previously that this was a fabricated story to get attention off of them. I was merely stating it was not fabricated.


In your sitch, this was warrented, your H was having a full blown affair. If I had evidence of a full blown affair and fully believed this is what he is doing then yes he would be out and Plan B would not be selfish or heartless compared to his actions. Since my H doesn't even understand why his friendship with this girl is inappropriate he will take Plan B as me being jealous and controlling regardless of how well I Plan A.


He doesnt state Plan B is punishment for an affair, however plan B for Independant Behaviour would be a form of punishment. As soon as I plan B, he will be living with OW as he has no where else to go, not to mention to be spiteful. Considering I am still not over the hurt and devistation caused by him living with her last year I refuse to be the one to push him to her. Also, why would anyone in their right mind want to "wait out the affair"? I will not sit around and wait for H to decide what side is greener, if he crosses to the other side, I'm putting up and electric fence.


I may not have worded this properly. What I was trying to say was that Plan A is about removing Love Busters and resolving conflict properly and such, this isn't something that just stops. Its something you will incorporate for the rest of your life.


I sure do! I do this in RL too when anyone disrespects/judges my H. I am giving my perspective of the issue, it is one side of the story. His side may be seen in a completely different way and therefore I don't like him being judeged simply on information I am providing.


There is no one to expose to. She doesn't work, he doesn't work and they are completely open about their friendship. Friends and Family have been putting pressure on them about it for a long time now, but it only pushes the friendship closer because H is the "I'll prove you can't tell me whats right and wrong" type person. People pressuring him only makes it harder on me.

A few thoughts to add to Scotty's post, which I thought was excellent:

Completely irrelevant.

You're right. In *your* situation, you should only do Plan B, due to your WH's additional addictions.

This is because you don't yet place a high enough value on yourself to protect yourself from ongoing abuse.

You continue to focus on your (mistaken) denial of this, instead of recognizing that your actions need to be the same regardless of whether he's screwed her.

This could be why you seem to have way more BW-fog than average - a combination of failure to take responsibility for your own EA's so you give him a pass on his A, and your own mental unhealth from long-term marriage to an addict.

No one can possibly push you to do anything, even though in this case it is the best thing for you, and the only thing that might even save the tattered shreds of your M. Yet it seems you don't want to listen to sound advice.

Absolutely. Plan A must stop, for the sanity of the BS. Many elements of Plan A carry on into a life of either rewarding singlehood or excellent R, but Plan A itself is so draining, mentally and physically, that it should only be attempted for a few weeks.

Actually, yes it does. You have cherry-picked the parts you like, and continue to disparage the rest.

Addict WH appreciates the new quantity and quality of cake you're feeding him. No lasting changes have been effected on his part, nor can there be while he is still conducting and A and an addiction. What you have done is good; you laid the groundwork for a future R. But while there is an A (and an addiction), you have no real M to improve.

To repeat, saying that does not take away from the good you accomplished with Plan A, most especially within yourself. It's a foundation, and that's important, even if it's not what you thought it was.

It is the A and the addiction that are destroying it now. Yet you continue to make excuses for him and minimize his behaviors.

More denial and sticking your head in the sand. Waywards can always squeeze time in to meet - one WS of a MB member would catch 5-minute quickies for OS in the parking garage. To believe there hasn't been an opportunity, you are only fooling yourself.

This is baloney. He will never "wean" himself away from her. He will never ease her away. It's cold turkey or nothing. All this means is he's cake-eating. But we already knew that.

Yeah, he's trying all right - trying to preserve his double-fisted supply of cake. And there you go with the "punish" thing again. With those statements, you show how deeply you have devalued yourself, thinking you deserve to settle for the crumbs he is giving you.

You deserve much, much more than you're getting. You deserve to be a loved, cherished wife of a non-addicted man who provides for his family.

Until you see that, you will continue to fight our advice tooth and nail. You'll reject what we say because we value you more highly than you do yourself. My hope is that you stick around long enough to stop fighting, stop rejecting, and see yourself through our eyes.

You're in a total fog of your own right now, and your kids need you to come out of it.

God bless,
Neak

Sigh... Ok, I need to come clean about something. I had an A. It went as far as kissing and that is when I realized I was being incredibly stupid and Loved my H way too much to hurt him. I do still see this man as he is part of H's family now but always ensure that I am never alone with him. I took another male friend for a drive once, just like H does with OW, and H flipped out! Friend and I dated when I was 13 and apparently that makes things different?!?! H says its because friend has admitted to still having feelings for me, and H claims he worries friend will try something. I'm honestly not comfortable being alone with him either, I only did it so H would maybe understand how him and OW make me feel, didn't work. His double standard drives me NUTS!


Yes I am. Actually, it comes and goes. I was coming back on to apologize, I don't mean to sound disrespectful or defensive and I really am soaking in everybody's advice. I do understand that everyone here does care about me and I really appreciate it. H and I always joke that he could sell ice to an Eskimo, he's a very smooth talker and I'm a sucker for him. I Love him more than life and when he sweet talks me and flashes those dimples he knows he can get anything he wants from me.

Scotty mentioned earlier that eventually my Love Bank will be empty and I will no longer Love him, I don't think this will ever happen as he is always sure to top it up before making withdrawls. Maybe this is why I go back and forth so much. He has continued the same behaviour for the past seven years, its just a horrible habit at this point.

You know what you need to do about your OM. You've been here long enough to have that part down pat.

Your A doesn't give WH a free pass, or mean that you can't have a boundary to only have 2 people in your M. What you did wrong doesn't change what is right now, and you still have the right to settle for nothing less than the best.

Ditto the guy you dated when you were 13. You now know he has feelings for you, even if he didn't tell you himself, so he's now in the extreme danger category, and in need of NC for the safety of your M, and his if he's M'd, too.

The only reason your LB hasn't already emptied is because your unhealthy bond to his addictions is being fed by his current actions. As you get distance from him (in Plan B, yeah!) you'll finally have the space to heal within your own self.

You both really need to heal apart before you begin trying to heal together, and we're all rooting for that to happen.

When I first saw this, I was gonna reply about how maybe you two were "standing up for the same independant behavior" and just now at a place of realizing it. But of course fighting it also. Also I wondered if you too had been involved somehow b4.

Then I saw neaks comments on WH being an addict, and I remember how much you defended him about his potsmoking, and the same thought really, fighting for freedoms like breaking down all the fences, some of them protecting you. I was gonna comment that you don't share most peoples outlook on drugs, and to watch out calling him an addict, because you allow him that freedom too.


But you came clean about a former affair "happening", good for you.


Plan A for life? Well yeah that WOULD be sweet, but its unrealistic to think anyone will be perfect enough, or a marriage would be, to let abusive behavior continue and not address it forever. It accually is not a good picture of what marriage should be. Plan A is designed to show yourself in the best possible light, for a period in time, to encourage what it looked like when you first fell in love, even though there is an elephant in the room. While you dance around the beast and act wonderful, eventually you will get trampled if you don't deal with it. Then you go to plan B to protect what is left of your love and life.

If you deal with the problem, then you can use the other tools, POJA,PORH, as so on to build the marriage, then more "plan A" treatment will be available.

Anyway, just in my support of neak and scottys posts, and of course you also. I commented.