You can roll your eyes or not

Even Dr Harley says that most of the women he knows of who are leaving their husbands are leaving men who are not abusive, addicted, nor adulterous. He says he is typically unable to convince such women to leave their husbands.

If the majority of divorced men were indeed left as Dr Harley suggests, I think my comment stands to reason.

That doesn't discount your experience. However, anecdotes don't make it true for everyone. Dr Harley sees thousands, you have one ex-husband. Therefore, I think his observations better describe the overall climate, while yours can accurately describe only your former marriage.

Thanks SW....I definately have been on a mission to make myself the best me I can. Inside and out. Hopefully there is someone out there who will appreciate it. At least I can have fun shopping for clothes again...lol.

EE...While I definately see there are alot of cheating horrible women out there...I think there are just as many men like that too. Maybe that's why I love my pets. A little food, kindness, and shelter and you have their love and loyalty forever. So simple....

Lol, it's not that much more complicated with guys. Trust me!

This is funny . It reminds me of a group hike that my wife and I just went on. It was a group of some 30-40 people (none of them our friends), and as we walked, I couldn't help but overhear a conversation between 3-4 women, who were somewhere in the 35-45 y.o. range. It was easy to gather that all but one were divorced, and the last one was in a marriage that she said she was giving 4 more months to "work". I put the word "work" in quotes because it came out pretty quickly that she was seeing someone already, and described how great he was in bed, much to the approval of the other women .

What I found interesting was as the hike went on, other women kept circulating in and out of that little clique, and without fail chimed right in as to how annoying/difficult/PITA/complex/unpredictable men are. It was like an outing of the man-hater-hikers club, I kid you not. But the funny thing is that after complaining left and right about how men are either too distant or too clingy, too independent or too needy, etc, they ended up saying that men should be like pets - there when you need/want them, and gone when you don't. My wife and I rolled our eyes and decided that there was an obvious reason why all these women were divorced. Not once did any of them question how THEY behaved as partners, it was all about those annoying men.

It is indeed sad that some wo/men think that their mates should be like pets (I'm not saying that your line above is serious about that, I just found it amusing given my recent experience). I wonder where people pick up that that is how a relationship should be, perhaps too many reality TV shows.

AGG

Sure there are, I've been married to them! LOL That's why I got a dog too...much better return...

tcc

lol...maybe I need to freshen up on my cooking skills then.

AGG

yeah, I hear women have conversations like that too..lol and then they wonder why. Sometimes it's just the way women are when we get in a pack....we just like to complain...

kcspr

Dogs are certainly simple to figure out. Much more reasonable than humans. I just find men to be so complicated. They like the idea of something but when they come across it they run like h*ll.

Or women! I am just not that hard to please.

I just caught up reading the whole thread. Ditto, I had a dog too, he was perfect..., he was so happy to see me everyday, whether I had a mini skirt or P.J., he would not secretly look for younger women online behind my back, he never had addiction issues.

OK, he was a messy eater/drinker, but that is how my XH was too

I can't tell if this was said tongue in cheek, but I once dated a woman who had a dog and who wanted "nothing more" than for me to look at her with the same loving eyes as her dog did. I didn't know how to tell her that people are a bit more complex than dogs, and won't automatically look lovingly at someone just because she gives them food and takes them for a walk...

I dunno, but I think that when people say they want their partner to act like their pet does, they are gonna have problems in their relationships .

AGG

Hi AGG! No, I don't think we actually 'want' men to ack like dogs...;) But dogs give unconditional love, that is very comforting to those women who were betrayed by their loved ones.

That's the issue, milkshake. Harley makes it very clear that romantic love is not unconditional, and those folks looking or hoping for it (like they get from their dogs or parents) are not being realistic. It's not what Hollywood teaches you, but I believe Harley more than I believe Hollywood (despite my geographical proximity to the latter ).

AGG

Love from parents or pets isn't unconditional either. Needs still need to be met, if you stop feeding your dog and beat it, it won't love you anymore. If you do something that shakes the core of your parent's morality, they may not love you anymore either. Love as a concept cannot be unconditional. Ever. /thread jack.

Travis

I dunno.. sad as it may be, I do think that even if you beat your dog, he'll try to ingratiate himself with you (to a point, I suppose). And I think most parents love their kids even if they end up being serial killers. They may be disappointed in them, but it's not like they stop loving them.

Regardless, the point I am trying to emphasize is that romantic love is at least, shall we say, much more conditional than with pets, parents, or what's portrayed in movies. I think that is one of the most imnportant principles in Marriage Builders, because it goes against the Disney/Hollywood message that love is unconditional, that so many kids unfortunately grow up believing...

AGG

Thanks for the responses.

LOL this whole dog thing has really gone off on a tangent.

I am not looking for a man that will look at me like my dog. Nor do I believe in unconditional love....i am having a hard enough time just believing in romantic love at all these days. Maybe the reference to a pet is that you can count on it's affection and love in good times and in bad. It doesn't really have an agenda. There is no fear of being hurt and the more love you put in, you get right back.

People relationships are so much more complicated I have a big heart and I leave it open to getting hurt all the time. That is my problem to deal with. I need to toughen up and get some thicker skin for this whole dating world.

As the new year approaches I think I am going to start focusing a little bit in a different direction. I am going to stop looking for that missing piece in my life. I have family and I have friends who love me. That just needs to be enough at this point. I am going to stop longing for something that just isn't out there.

I had been dating a guy for a little while this summer. We had talked about snowboarding and skiing together this winter. I love skiing and have wanted to get back into it. That was going to be the way I intoduced him to my 2 kids. I thought it would be a fun cool way for everyone to meet. Things didn't work out Shocker... but I decided that it wouldn't keep me from getting back into it. I bought new gear and my kids are getting snowboard/skis for christmas this year. We are planning to
hit the slopes this season. The 3 of us and I am really fine with that. I know we'll have a great time. No man necessary

Interestingly enough, in the Bible, God uses the dog analogy for how He wants us to love HIM! Dogs do love pretty wonderfully.

Where? Dogs in the Bible are treated as revolting, unclean creatures. Man elevates the dog to a status reserved for the lowly sparrow.

5 sparrows are sold for but a penny, yet they make their home in the temple and bring their young to the altar of the Lord.

Worship is "proskuneo" in the New Testament. It is derived from two words "pros" and "koun". "Pros" means toward. "Koun" means dog.

If you google it on line, you will find a lot of references where this has been expounded on from the Greek word proskuneo.

http://www.eattheword.com/wstudy/GW/proskuneo.htm

is a reasonable woman!

One who doesn't expect fireworks on the first date, and if she doesn't get them assumes that nothing will ever work out.

One who hasn't been so damaged by past experiences that every imperfection I have is seen through glasses that turn them into felony vices.

One who values a man who is fair, nice, loving, reliable and never quite grew up.

Merry Christmas everyone!

Same here!