Yes, I have been an enabler...and a co-dependant. I have read every book printed, I swear, on alcoholism.This kind of life is not easy.
I have been to an attorney. child support/spousal support hearing is set for Jan 6th. In my state, which is communal property, it is actually in the wifes favor NOT to file, as she loses the family home (must be sold or bought out by equity by one or other spouse[which I cannot afford to do]), all health insurance benefits and any survivor benefits(in case of death).WHEN he files(he has seen an attorney also)I can contest it, there is a 24 month wait period until procedings can begin. Once the child support/spousal support is set in motion he has 30 days to vacate home if he is still here. and find appropriate housing for him and children(for visits)or he will be fined per day and could be charged with contempt of court. So he will have to be out. I cannot make him pay any appropriate housing bills (electric, water, cable, etc.) only a small % of the mortgage. Child support is taken out of his pay and sent to Domestic Relations and they foward onto me, so I don't have to worry about him not paying it...unless he quits or loses job, then after so many months in arears he goes to jail.CS/Spousal & %of MTG will eat up half his pay. He is having a royal fit because he claims he cannot live off what he will have left over! The state I live in has a legal code for support and the law is the law, poor baby! I have heard of men in this state being forced to move back in with parents because they were left will only a few hundred dollars a month to live on after support payments! Plus he is still responsible for ALL medical/dental/eye insurance claims for my two boys and I. Poor baby! I think its time to have all my teeth capped!LOL, just taking care of ME for a change.
Listening to Sara Evans song STRONGER, it really lifts my spirits. I know I am strong. STRONGER. I also listen to the old Helen Reddy song I AM WOMAN-love it!
mitzie

Latest goings on. WH has all bank accounts in his name only. He took me off everything about 10-12 years ago do to my "faulty" mishandling of money and is very selfish and secretive about money. I don't have enough time or room to post about his money issues. Lets just say, his money is his money to spend on himself and everyone else be dammed. Yesterday was a rather tense day because he was saying how he didn't have any money to give me toward Xmas. He gave me a about 1/10th of what is usually spent on the holidays. Last night I called the bank and was able to get access to our(his)account. seems he got a check of some sort, I beleive it was through work for over 3grand! it was a direct deposit then immediatly removed it. This was the day after he didn't come home or call and basically changed his lifestyle. When confronted with this information this morn, he ballistic. Screaming and yelling (meanwhile kids are sleeping)about I don't know what the hell I'm talking about, Where did I get such access to such information, blah, blah, blah. I just shook my head and said, "it will all come out in court. you can't just take money away from your family and hide it",Your Royal Highness.(I have begun to call him that in my mind because, although he looks nothing like the King Henry 8, he seems to have the same attitudes of royalty and I think he'd like to just chop my head off and be rid of me!)Needless to say, he kept on it, insisting that he had no money, went as far as to show me OTHER bank account balance and how he took X amt of money out to give me for the Xmas stuff. I'm just sitting there calm, cool, collect, not getting into it with him. No fuel for the fire, as my MaMa used to say. Anyway, When I told him he better give me money for groceries, he went on and on about that, finally giving me a check and shorting me $100!!!He wants to know where all my money is going, I just tell him attorny fees, to which Your Royal Highness replies, "what am I supposed to do, I can't afford an attorney". Keeping a Ho aint cheap, can't have a Ho AND Attorney. Unless they are ONE IN THE SAME

You are sounding much more powerful, Mitzie. No fuel for the fire, good advice, indeed. When you're not doing a useless Plan A because of addiction, for the few days it takes to line stuff up to go into Plan B, your main role is to avoid lovebusters.

Sounds like you're doing a very good combination of that, and calm, loving confrontation.

Neak, just read your story & you give me such hope! I am so very glad to be back on here. I feel stronger, almost as if I have the army of God behind me or something. Oh, I still have those, "how will I ever take care of myself and the kids?" moments but then realise I HAVE been for the last 18 years, being married to an alcoholic is just like being a single parent, lonely and stressful. I feel less stressed now that I know that Plan B isn't too far off in the future. For now I will hold my tongue(I let it lose in the car when I'm alone)and be a good Plan A'er. THanks for everyones support. It does help. Mitzie

God will take care of you, whether in R or D. He will faithfully watch over you even when your own husband leaves you. You don't have to worry!

I have been perusing the boards on BS of WS who are alcoholics/addicts, and I've got to tell you, it all seems bleek to me. I don't really see much hope in saving this marriage if my WH is enabled by his friends and family to continue using and refuses to beleive he even HAS a problem.

Does Plan B work to bring them to rock bottom? I don't see how if OW is also an alc & pill poppin' drug addict(along with other various "illegal substances"), and I suspect he is using drugs also( he could get fired from his job-but that's his choice). Wouldn't she just feed into his addiction, helping him stay just enough above the hitting bottom stage?

Last night he stayed at OW apt(her kids were away)and I don't expect to see him until Sunday night (when her kids come back). I would like to start on Plan B now and go dark,since I rarely see him/talk to him anyway,but don't know if that's possible, given the fact that he flip/flops between here & there (until Jan 2 when his apt is avail). I rarely see him as he works shifts, is at OW house or out drinking. It's almost no different a life as before the bomb dropped except now there is OW & threat of divorce.

I get so sad when I think of what he has done.

I am reading Adult Chidren of Alchoholics right now. I bought it mainly because I wanted to see what effect his drinking was having on the kids. He himself is a ACOA and I now realize because of the issues of growing up in violent/alc. home he was never really 100% present in this relationship anyway. The book does give hope though. It says that when a recovering ACOA alcoholic loves, their love is 100%. The main point being, recovering.

I am hoping because I am more open and honest about his drinking with the kids then his mother was, that they have a better understanding of what alc. does. We talk openly, honestly and I LISTEN to what they have to say on the subject. My oldest DS holds nothing back-even when talking to dad. SOmetimes it borders disrespect, but the things he says to him are truthful and he doesn't say it to be disrespectful. They are allowed to show and talk about their feelings. Of course now that they are teens it's like trying to pull teeth out of them-all the more reason I think they should be allowed to have a voice. Sometimes we talk about the A.For the record: I DO NOT discuss personal information with them, they are not my confidants. Sometimes they have questions about dad and what's going on. No one wants to stay on the subject too long but at least it's outhere and they know they can.

I'm off to work. I try to keep my mind focused (very stressful job-need my mind). Anyone have any ideas on how to stop intrusive thoughts when your at work? Also comments on the Plan B stuff would be appreciated.

Thank ya much. Mitzie

I

Love this Neak.

Mitzie,
I love your sig...

When you feel you are powerless, that just means that someone ELSE has the power. TAKE THE POWER BACK!

That is how I feel only I think I would change it to.

When you feel you are powerless, that just means that you have allowed someone ELSE take the power. TAKE THE POWER BACK!

I am in the process of taking the power back.

You are correct that the odds are not nearly as rosy when an A is combined with any sort of substance abuse. However, Plan B will give you the very best of those smaller odds of R.

Probably the OW also being an addict will keep him from crashing longer than it would take otherwise, however such an evil and foundationless excuse for a relationship is almost certain to implode eventually.

I would recommend the full 2 years of Plan B, and if you are so inclined you can always go a while longer before moving on with your life. (Or not - that's ok, too.)

Plan B is hands down the best thing for you, and the only thing that even might get through to WH eventually. Even if he never recovers, you will. Your kids will. That has to be your top priority.

A few months from now, you won't be able to believe you made it in the days before Plan B.

Regarding the thoughts popping up at work, I would pick something, whether a beautiful song or a Bible verse, and every time those thoughts come into your head, immediately put the other already-picked-out thought in its place. It may take a couple days or a couple weeks, but your brain will make new pathways to the good thought, and bypass the others.

Mitzie, you are right, it is very bleak. The purpose of Plan B, though, is to protect you from him. Sometimes it can cause a WS to hit bottom, but there are no guarantees. But you have nothing to lose and everything to gain by going into Plan B.

Most alcoholics do not die sober. It is bleak.

Back from a busy night at work. Mind didn't wander as much since we were busy. Got some great compliments on my hairstyle (did it in a "Farrah Fawcett" do today)and that lifted my spirits. One guy even told me I was beautiful. Much needed after feeling like the UGLY MONSTER in the house.

Before I left, WH stopped by on his way to work. Of course it was after sleeping at her house. I asked how the memorial party went(OW's father passed last week)and he said it was great fun. I'm sure it was your royal highness. He said he got drunk and passed out. WHen I asked where he said on the couch. When pressed for whose couch, he finally said "K". Why is he so reluctant to tell me this stuff? He knows I know, he knows the kids know, criminy, he knows the whole freakin town knows, I just don't get it. He did tell me the apt is a go and should be moving Jan 2nd. I asked him if he was glad, he shrugged.I asked again, he shrugged. I told him that was not an answer and then said I guess. I asked him why won't he just tell me the truth, asked him if he thought he was hurting my feelings by being happy, to which he replied, "yes". So in other words, he's worried about my feelings NOW? NOT WHEN HE WAS F*&^ing the town skanker? Oh my, how wonderful of him to care!(insert sarcasm).
What I said next, I don't know that I should have, let me know if this is out of step with plan A. " Everything we have, we've worked for,raising our children,All the hopes and dreams ruined because of sex. Our kids will never right all because you wanted to f*&k someone else"

SIDE NOTE: I am NOT a person who uses profanity in any regard,I think it's a poor way to get your point accross.I couldn't help myself by this point though.

His reply to that was "it's not about that." What is it about Your Royal Highness, LOVE?

He did notice my new hairdo and walked in the bedroom as I was changing and saw me in my underthings. I must say, I looked pretty HOT in just that bra & pany. I noticed him standing in there a bit too long catching glimpses. That was one of my WH emotional needs-sex-and lots of it. Well sometimes I get TIRED, just TIRED Your Royal Highness,nothing to do with you personally.

One last thing then I'm off to bed. He was folding his laundry (yes I asked him do his own laundry now, hoping he asks "K" to do it. She won't I guess)and I walked by and said "so this is the end then. Your moving for sure on the 2nd of January?" His reply "seems that way. Why, would you take me back after this?" I did not turn around to face him, but just spoke softly and said, "I don't really know Your Royal Highness."

Had an UH HUH moment at work when I realized that I am addicted to him. I need that 'fix' of him. It makes me happy to see his truck in the driveway when he pulls up. I am all smiles when I see him. And I realized to what was meant by him being dependent upon me. He NEEDS to be part of family unit.Something he never got in childhood. He has basically gone dark on me. From a few days before the first time they were together he stopped all text and phone calls to me. I just ignored it because I was busy or somthing else but never paid much attention to it until now. I now want him to be as addicted to this family and ME as I am addicted to him. I also realize he is addicted to the skankho "K". Plan B must work cause he unknowingly using it on me...and it's driving me BONKERS/NUTS/CRAZY!!!

Too tired to write anymore venting. THanks for listening & sorry if my spelling is off. Really, Really TIRED. Wouldn't be able to complete His Royal Highness emotional need tonight, that's for sure! Mitzie

If you even consider meeting that particular EN, PLEASE protect yourself to the same level as if he was a prostitute.

Loving confrontation is fine, and even encouraged, while in Plan A. Just be careful not to go overboard. On the one hand, you don't want to waste a lot of energy on a useless Plan A, on the other, you don't want to give him too much stick and no carrot for these last few days before you go into Plan B.

Yes, you're addicted to him, and that's something you will need to face and conquer in Plan B. However, the only reason he seems like he's not similarly involved is because he's calling the shots. If he wants to play with his Mitzie-doll he picks her up and plays with her. If he doesn't, he puts her down and forgets about her for a while.

You are likely to be surprised how much that dynamic changes when you go into Plan B. Which is why you need to be very thorough in blocking his avenues of contact at the very beginning.

Are you still planning to go into PB on Jan 2? If he doesn't leave as planned, are you prepared to kick him out?

Thanks Neak for all your advice. All of you here are so WISE!

Yes I will Plan B in Jan. He will HAVE to leave due to court hearing on 6th.

I cannot seem to find thread that is specific to Plan A and Plan B. Can you post where it is located, or how to find it. I need to read it again, as my brain is hazy and cannot remember all that needs to be implemented in both.

BTW i don't think I will meeting THAT particular EN right now. The thought of him & HER-YUCK!! The sad thing is
for days before he told me he wanted out of relationship with me I was very much meeting his ENs. What was that all about?! The last time(met his EN) I remember him saying "We shouldn't have done that" which I thought was very strange, then next day...BOMB DROP!

Thanks, and don't forget to point me in direction of Plan A & B.

Mitzie

Read through this section if you haven't already:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5525_qa.html

Also read Peppberband's The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A, and maybe someone else knows where a good Plan B thread is. If not, I can look, I just don't have these bookmarked like some of the sensible and efficient people here do.

Is there any post/thread/site that theorizes or medically knows of what goes on in the mind of a WS that abandons all he knows and holds dear in his life. Yeas I know about the seratonin/dopamine jibber-jabber but I'm asking psychologically.
I have read HNHN and that may explain emotionally why affairs start but my needs were not being met either and I did not choose to fall in love/sleep with another person. So what goes on?

My WH has pretty much placed himself on a Plan B with ME, although unknowingly. No contanct with ME or kids. I must state that my WH is the kind of person that once he decides he doesn't want you in his life, your pretty much gone. He has several friends and family members he has done this to. He has a 27 year old daughter whom he has not spoken to in 18 years(hears about her from HIS mother-her grandmother)and two grandchildren(through dau)that he never acknowledges nor has seen(they live several states away). When his dau was 3 he NEVER spoke to the girls mother again! And I mean NEVER! They had dau while still in HS.I have been with him 20 year and he has NEVER brought any of them up in conversation, not ONCE! He will answer questions if I ask, but they are quick and give no details.When pressed about xmas or birthday for dau & grandchildren it's always "do whatever you want" and he has a royal fit if I spend over a couple dollars on them! There are a lot of friends he has done this to also, although those friends were people who don't condone the me first-family last attitude he employs, but they were still very good friends for a long while until his drinking got to be more than social. I beleive this is what he doing with his children and me. He does not call/txt his boys, stops buy very quickly says a quick "hi" to whichever son is home gets what he needs and leaves, usually without a goodbye.

Plan B may work to help heal myself but honestly, knowing my WH and his "This is who I am I'm not changing" attitude, I don't really see him ever comming back. I don't see us ever being together again. It may or may not last with OW, but once he closes the door, he locks it. And we are being locked out.
I don't think he will ever want to stop drinking. As long as he can maintain a job and doesn't get arrested (he's moving 1 block from the social club he/OW patronize)he will continue to do what he wants.

Yes, he will have visitation, but DS is 15 and once DS turns 16 and drives/gets job he's not going to want to go over there. WH won't press issue either

He promised oldest DS he would help him get a car. Hasn't brought it up to him since. I think he has no intention on it.

Sorry, I'm having a bad morning. I'm just drained from everything that's going on. Last night I had crying breakdown after getting in an arguement with oldest DS over his language. I can't even say "wait till your dad hears about this" or "your father's not going to be happy about this" anymore, because there is no father figure in the house. I just broke down, not in front of them. Went in my room and cried so hard I couldn't catch my breath. What makes me angry is the WH seems to think this is okay? Well the OW THINKS it's okay. She has always said she had no problem being a single parent, her kids don't need a permanant dad in the house (well that's easy for you to say, OW, because you've always had some dude take care of YOU & your kids)Her kids dad wouldn't marry her, her live in BF of 8 years wouldn't marry her. His thinking is just like her's-askewed. She went as far as to tell me one time she would kinda be glad if her oldest daughter got pregnant(girl was around 16 at time)because she would help her raise it!!!IS THAT NORMAL THINKING!!??

As far as exposing to her family, they don't care. Her dad just died 2 weeks ago, her brother is an alcoholic who cheats on his wife and her mother is a co-dependent/enabler who thinks the relationship is fine as long as her daughter is happy.

Too much dysfunction around. I will welcome Plan B, it will give me some breathing room. I only hope my husband doesn't get fired. I have reason to beleive he called off again yesterday to be with OW.

Hi mitzie I know how you feel.
My WH is the same, when he closes a door it is closed for good. There are people he has not spoken to for years and years. He could go months without talking to his parents and syblins and if it was not for me who made the calls...he would have cared less about talking to them. And they were always nice to him...
He is able to hold a grudge with someone who has stepped on his toes for years.
He even told me: once I decide something that's that. I am done with this marriage
Mitzie...so be it. Look who are they with!! Your WH is certainly setting himself up with some unpleasant surprices down the road. The OW seems awful, terrible person.
Your WH only sees what he wants to see, it does not matter what she really is. He does not see her. He only sees a wonderful OW he is in love with.
The best thing we can do is to live a good life and forget about those losers. They really are losers, Mitzie otherwise they would not behave the way they do...
I have many bad days like yours but recently I told myself...look Atena, you WH likes to spend all his free time with the sort of people OW is. Would you spend even 5 minutes with OW? NOOO! But he does and that tells you who he is. A loser who gave up a nice family for nothing.
hugs and blessing

None of his problems are about you. None of them reflect in any way who you are.

The way I see it, one of two things is going to happen:

1) WH hits rock bottom, repents, and spends the rest of his life loving you and his children,

or

2) You go into Plan B (if he won't contact you so much the easier), and never again in your life (unless #1 takes place) have to deal directly with an unhealthy, damaged individual who doesn't care if they hurt you.

Either way, I promise you will be fine - better than fine - wonderful.

The only scenario that doesn't come with a happy ending for you is if you remain in contact with WH, who has a documentable illness and whose presence sucks out your life and peace.

You will have bad days, and that's ok. We've all been through them. Keep your eye on the goal, which is a happy, healthy, joyful you.

Thanks, atena. I just posted on YOUR page, how weird is that. I feel like we are two peas in a pod!

Yeah, you are right, but that does not make it easier. I do not beleive in divorce. My husband does not beleive in marriage. What to do, what to do?

My WH too, also has alway said, "once I get my mind on something, that's that" whether it be a new car, new cell, NEW WOMAN(apparantly!). His father is the same way. Of course his father was an alcoholic too. Did your WH drink?

It makes me sad, because I have all these memories, and I know the kids have all these memories and in the end that's really all we're left with, right. When I was little and my family was planning a trip or going to do something (even if it was to the grocery store) and one of us kids would ask what we were doing, my parents reply was alway "making memories". That's what parents are suppose to give their kids, happy memories, right? Not crappy unhappy ones. My WH doesn't have many happy memories that involve his family, so go figure, so making happy memories for his kids wasn't a priority.

Last year I had saved and saved and finally took the family on a carribean cruise. We extended the vacation to visit IL who have a winter home, and do some FLA sight seeing. 10 days of sun and fun, right? NOT REALLY. WH complained the whole time. WHO COMPLAINS ON A CRUISE??ESPECIALLY ONE YOU DIDN"T PAY FOR!!!???
Well, he did. This was this past spring, over Easter. All I heard up until and including the day I found out about the A, was how much money it cost and how he could have had a two car garage built for the money that was spent on the vacation. I told him that you can't put a price on a happy family vacation memory. To which he replied "That's stupid, we could have just went and stayed with my parents for a fourth of what was spent".
What a jerk.

I heard Marie Osmond on the Oprah show say in regards to her failed marriage. "You marry at the level of your self esteem."
I find that to be true. I also beleive that one falls in love at the level of their self esteem. That's why so many stay together or fall apart. My WH has NO self esteem. He is with a woman without any self esteem. They will stay that way together until one grows up in SE or on falls even lower. They may feed off each others low self worth. I always felt he thought I was too good for him, it was a weird feeling, he would always tell me I should find someone else who could make me happy. It wasn't economically speaking, it was more like "your a good person, I'm a bad person, we shouldn't be together." So now he's with a bad person.

My WH exact words!
Also during recent family vacations he was never happy, always in a bad mood...
We had also planned, after his first A, a formal cerimony where we will recommit our vows. He kept postponing it and postponing it.
Just before our separation he said it had been a long time since he loved me and that he let the relationship go too long. He said that after his first A he tried hard to have feelings of love for me again, but it never happened.
I too believe that he spent the 3 years between his 2 affairs looking for someone else all the time, till he found her right next door.
If they never really loved us for all those years it is fair to say they will not in the future. I think their feelings for us are gone for good.
But really, we are better off without them. We deserve a man who wants to be with us, who appreciates us and who would be overjoyed to be on vacation with us, not sulky and unhappy telling us all the time that they do not love us.
Who needs that? Yes, we must have had a very low self esteem to put up with that!
No more
Blesssing

R U sure you're not my doppleganger? Honest to goodness. Or rather, our WH are dopplegangers of each other. See what alcoholism does to children, it grows them into men like THAT. I worry about my sons.

off to work.

mitzie