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look, anyone that comes to these boards and admits guilt is going to get a 2x4 up the azz, especially by those who were cheated on...it's just going to happen... Yep. You betcha. Every time. Especially when they come here stating their misdeeds and blaming them on their betrayed spouse!! For crying out loud!! What are you missing, here?? We are not going to soft-sell recovery from an A. Waywards who come here and are still foggy are going to get a whopping dose of reality, either up their ying-yang or in their ears, we're not going to minimalize what they've done. They will thank us in the end, if they are truly repentent and ready to do what it takes to save their M. mr. anderson, I don't know your story. Are you a wayward or a betrayed?
D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!
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ok, hopefully mranderson will stop disrupting this thread so we can get back to business.
TexasBob, your wife should not take you seriously unless and until you take 100% responsibility for your affairs - which are completely unrelated to any need meetin - and take steps to set appropriate boundaries around women. The way you described your background made it very evident that you are still blameshifting and very invested in self pity.
If we can detect it, then I am certain your wife can too.
Whether your marriage ends up with success or failure will depend almost entirely on your willingness and ability to make radical changes. Your lifestyle must become absolutely transparent, holding nothing back. You are in no position to negotiate when it comes to extraordinary precautions, because those precautions are designed to prevent another affair and help your wife feel safe. You must also meet your emotional needs in a way that until now you have failed.
When you can convey that to your wife without blame, without inappropriate self pity, is when she should take notice.
But until you can do that she is right to pursue divorce.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I for one appreciate Mr. Anderson's comments and he's exactly right. MelodyLane, you don't come off as being helpful, more like judgmental. Let me say it again, I have taken full responsibility of my actions. I'm not having a pitty party because I get emotional because I regret those decisions. Now please can we move on to some solution based comments rather than deciding whether I'm repentant enough? I wonder how many individuals in my shoes want to accept responsibility and make things right? I would hope that those of you would openly welcome those admitting wrong looking for help in changing.
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Whenever I counsel someone who seems incurably attracted to the opposite sex, I give them the following rules to avoid temptation: 1) Spend all your recreational time either alone or with your spouse, 2) no meals alone with someone of the opposite sex, 3) no rides in cars alone with those of the opposite sex, 4) never tell someone of the opposite sex that you find them attractive or that you like them and 5) if someone of the opposite sex ever tells you that they find you attractive, start talking about how much you love your spouse. Also, this Q&A doesn't relate to infidelity, but Dr. Harley's recommendations may still be helpful to you: I suggest you keep trying to reconcile right up to the day she moves out, then up to the day you are divorced, and then continue on for about two years beyond your divorce. Your wife's Love Bank is so far in the red that she probably can't even see the bottom of the well. But each time you do something to make her feel good, and avoid doing something that annoys her, your reduce the deficit. She probably hates you right now because her Love Bank balance is so negative. But eventually, you will have deposited enough love units to break even. From then on, you will be depositing into the black, and she will like you again. With more deposits, she will eventually love you, and your marriage will be restored.
Your wife is suffering from deep resentment that developed over a lifetime. She does not want to forgive you for the mistakes you made during your marriage, and she certainly can't forget. Her Taker reminds her of her lost years, when she was forced to live according to your plans and your schedule. It reminds her of the times she begged you to consider her feelings, and how you ignored her pleas. She is reminded of her overwhelming feeling of loneliness, and hopelessness that made her consider suicide on numerous occasions. How could she ever forgive a man who put her through all of that.
It's no wonder your wife wants to make her own choices from now on, and her first choice is to leave the prison. She has probably been counting the days that your children would be on their own so she could be on her own. Every effort you are now making to keep her with you will be interpreted as the same oppressive control that she endured throughout your marriage.
Your wife is now in the state of emotional withdrawal, which makes it difficult for you to deposit love units into her Love Bank. She does not want you to try to meet her emotional needs because she does not believe you will ever be able to make her happy. She thinks that as soon as she drops her defenses, you will trap her, and she will be under your control again.
For a while, she may want to regain total control of her life so that she knows what it feels like. Once she has regained control, however, she may miss what it was you did for her. After all, none of us can meet our own emotional needs, they can only be met by someone else. That's what marriage is all about. She may be willing to re-enter her relationship with you on new terms. If you can meet her needs without it costing her control of her life, you will have made a deal that will compensate her for some of the pain she has suffered. From there her generosity toward you may carry her the rest of the way to forgiveness.
Interestingly enough, a sign of her trusting you may take the form of anger and resentment. If she changes from withdrawal to the state of conflict (which is an improvement), she will tell you how angry she is, and blame you for all of her depression. Her Taker will release its storehouse of resentment. Her shaming of you, and her disrespect will be hard for you to take, but it will give you an opportunity to hear from her Taker what she wants from you. You will have an opportunity to make a deal with her to compensate her for all of the pain she has suffered. If you can get though her attack without losing too many of her love units in your love bank, you will gain valuable information, and an opportunity from your wife to implement change.
Read "Negotiating in the Three States of Marriage" in my Basic Concepts section of the web site for more information about how states of mind effect your negotiating strategy. You should also read Fall in Love, Stay in Love. If you read it now, you can start applying its principles while she is still with you, and follow through on them after she has left. Pay close attention to the chapters on the Love Busters, Disrespectful Judgments and Selfish Demands, because they will get you into a ton of trouble if you persist in them while she is still around.
My article, in the articles section, entitled "Why Women Leave Men" may also be helpful to you. If possible, make a copy for your wife to read and see if she agrees with me.
The Policy of Joint Agreement (never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement between you and your spouse) is the ultimate equalizer in marriage. Your wife's stated reason for leaving you is that her feelings have not been taken into account whenever you have made decisions, and she feels like the caboose on a train. All her married life she felt out of control. The Policy of Joint Agreement will change all of that for both of you, and if you try to reconcile with care and consideration for her feelings, you and your wife will have years to practice using it together.
FBW in recovery
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MrAnderson,
Have you done any coaching with the Harleys? The first thing Steve does before he addresses anything regarding meeting ENs/avoiding LBers is that he makes sure the WS accepts 100% responsibility for his own actions and then develops an EP plan (boundaries). I believe he outlines this plan at the end of the infidelity video...
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I for one appreciate Mr. Anderson's comments and he's exactly right. MelodyLane, you don't come off as being helpful, more like judgmental.[ Let me say it again, I have taken full responsibility of my actions. I'm not having a pitty party because I get emotional because I regret those decisions. Now please can we move on to some solution based comments rather than deciding whether I'm repentant enough? I wonder how many individuals in my shoes want to accept responsibility and make things right? I would hope that those of you would openly welcome those admitting wrong looking for help in changing. No, you have not accepted responsibility, TexasBob. That is the problem. I can accurately "judge" that you a) do not take responsibility for your adultery and b) have an enormous amount of very inappropriate self pity. I am sure mranderson means well, but he has not even read Surviving an Affair and has no experience here. That has to be your first step. If I can see this, I can assure you that your wife can too. My suggestion to get honest is very "solution based" and lets keep in mind that I have saved my marriage. You and mranderson have not.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I for one appreciate Mr. Anderson's comments and he's exactly right. MelodyLane, you don't come off as being helpful, more like judgmental. Let me say it again, I have taken full responsibility of my actions. I'm not having a pitty party because I get emotional because I regret those decisions. Now please can we move on to some solution based comments rather than deciding whether I'm repentant enough? I wonder how many individuals in my shoes want to accept responsibility and make things right? I would hope that those of you would openly welcome those admitting wrong looking for help in changing. TexasBob, I will NOT let you disrespect MelodyLane. I will let you know that you have jumped on the wrong horse here. Mr A has NOT helped save Hundreds of marriages from an affair. MelodyLane HAS, HERS INCLUDED. She is a well respected vet and you should actually be HONOURED to have her posting to you. TB, when you don't like what someone is saying about you, why don't you look within YOURSELF and figure out why. I hope you will re-read the posts that are NOT from MrA and gain some different perspective. You will see that MrA's posts were a huge distraction and led to you being able to have justifications for your affair. There are NONE sir. NONE. If you remain in this fogginess, I would personally recommend that you wife D you and not look back until you really "get it"
BW(Me)aka Scotty:37 DSx2: 10,12 DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09 Plan B Dec18/09 Personal R in works Scotty's THING  Newly Betrayed click herePraying for walls and doors. Thanx MM “Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.” ? Maya Angelou PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION THANK YOU
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Now please can we move on to some solution based comments rather than deciding whether I'm repentant enough? I wonder how many individuals in my shoes want to accept responsibility and make things right? I would hope that those of you would openly welcome those admitting wrong looking for help in changing. Why did you have numerous affairs? If your answer has anything to do with what you wrote in your first post, you are much less likely to get your BW onboard and you are at a high risk for another affair, period. Your mindset, acknowledgement of your own weaknesses and vulenrabilities around women and demonstration of willingness to change based on that acknowledgement IS THE FOUNDATION for the rest of it.
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you know what? I think I will step aside and leave you to mranderson. I wish you the best. 
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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you know what? I think I will step aside and leave you to mranderson. I wish you the best. Good decision, ML. As a betrayed wife, I certainly wouldn't spend another second on a husband who wasn't totally contrite. Maybe TB will in time understand that his wife might not want to waste another second on such a husband, either. No finger pointing. No excuses. No woe is me. No pity party. No blame shifting.
FBW in recovery
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I plan on sharing the site with her. Aside from MelodyLane's charge of being a rapist and a seemingly hate for all cheaters, I gather that I need to focus on strengthing those boundaries, serve her and the kids in any way allowed, and let time go by.
MelodyLane, please understand I'm here because I want change and I want to make amends. At this point the damage has been done, so what good would it do to continue on with who's fault it was leading up to the infidelity? There isn't any point cause ultimately I chose the absolute wrong choice. Help me do what I can to correct me behavior and attempt to bring happiness into her life again. I'm not MelodyLane, but I can tell you that until you are able to review past behaviors with an unbiased eye (not protecting yourself and your choices) you will continue to stumble toward recovering your own self. The worst advice that we can give you is 'recovery-lite.' You don't want that. You don't deserve it. Would you like nice warm fuzzies, letting you know it's all good? It's NOT. You already know that. You are headed for divorce. Why would we try to make that more comfortable for you? You have attached yourself to Mr. Anderson because he is requiring little of you. We require you to do some hard work. You get to pick which path. I promise you that recovery-lite promises you heartache. You don't like what MelodyLane is saying? Then you may not be a suitable candidate for recovering your M. At the end of the day, you get to pick. What do you pick? I want you to realize the damage you have caused your BW without attaching a caveat to it. Let's work on that first.
D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!
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"...he's looking for the plan of action...i'm still waiting for someone to actually take the helm and propose a plan of action with him... "
If YOU have a "plan of action" based upon YOUR experiences with infidelity & Marriage Builders concepts & principles, PRESENT IT!! Don't wait for the others! Let YOUR advice stand or fall based upon your knowledge of MB.
In the meanwhile, do NOT disrupt this thread any further picking apart the advice & suggestions of others!
Lets get back to HELPING!
JustUss
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I guess I'm lost. I thought I was past the sorrow and remorse and was beginning on being contrite. That's what I've been trying to get at. I try all I can and am allowed to make amends with my wife. I know how busy she is so I'll sneak into the house when she's away and clean or fold laundry. I buy small gifts that I have others give her. I make myself available for whatever need she may have. I'm here cause I want to do more. I want to replenish her love bank which is at the bottom of the negative. I admit I'm missing it here and that's what I'm here to gain.
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"...he's looking for the plan of action...i'm still waiting for someone to actually take the helm and propose a plan of action with him... "
If YOU have a "plan of action" based upon YOUR experiences with infidelity & Marriage Builders concepts & principles, PRESENT IT!! Don't wait for the others! Let YOUR advice stand or fall based upon your knowledge of MB.
In the meanwhile, do NOT disrupt this thread any further picking apart the advice & suggestions of others!
Lets get back to HELPING!  Thanks, JustUss. Our mods never get enough credit.
D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!
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... please understand I'm here because I want change and I want to make amends. At this point the damage has been done, so what good would it do to continue on with who's fault it was leading up to the infidelity? @TB this quote is wayward babble. The damage is not only done, but it is continuing. Do you want to save your marriage? Then own the damage that you have done and the damage that is continuing. The fault for the infidelity is yours. NOT YOUR BETRAYED SPOUSE! You betrayed her. Don't you get it? You are a home-wrecker. You wrecked your own home. Accept it. Own it! Give us a list of all the things that you did to wreck your marriage. Do it without blaming it on anything but yourself. Can you do this?
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when one spouse starts to neglect the other in meeting emotional needs, this is what happens...the relationship becomes ripe for an affair... There seems to be a huge amount of silent "conventional wisdom" out there - you know, the stuff "everybody knows" - as in, "everybody knows that if your spouse doesn't give you what you need, you are entitled to look elsewhere for it." Many, many people do this. And I guess it's just a coincidence that we have a huge divorce rate with countless broken families and broken children and broken ex-spouses. TexasBob, you seem to be someone who silently believes this "conventional wisdom" and I guess you thought we'd concede that point to you. Sorry - we've learned better If someone is not happy in their marriage, they have three choices: 1) Live with it. 2) Fix it. 3) Divorce it. Option 4, "Keep it but go out and get a little something on the side to make up the difference and sit on the fence and enjoy being both married and single", is not and never has been a viable option. Why not? For starters, it is unspeakably cruel to both the betrayed spouse and to the children. The children get lied to and neglected and emotionally starved just as much as the betrayed spouse. Sorry - human beings are not pets or collectibles kept around to amuse the cheating spouse when he/she does feel like being with them. And another reason why not - look at where you are now, TexasBob. Look at where your wife is. How did Option 4 work for you? Exactly as well as it always works. I hope you will stay around here, and especially I hope you will send your betrayed wife here to start her own thread (that you stay off of). We could give both of you much support on how to have a much better marriage. But you will have to stop justifying Option 4 in any way, shape or form if we are to help you or if your betrayed wife is ever in a million years to trust you again.
Me, BW
WH cheated in corporate workplace for many years. He moved out and filed in summer 2008.
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P.S. Around here, being "judgmental" is not a bad thing. It's a good thing. It means using proper judgment to determine right from wrong.
And you do realize, of course, that whenever someone gives you praise or a compliment they are also being "judgmental". Do you tell them to stop judging you in those cases, too?
Bet ya don't.
Me, BW
WH cheated in corporate workplace for many years. He moved out and filed in summer 2008.
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I impulsively joined the Marines without hashing out with her 1st.
I chose an MOS that put me in harms way and out training for the first part of our marriage.
I made a clean house a priority over her hobby of cooking.
I let that priority become a stale mate in our relationship.
I became an impulsive spender.
I viewed pornography.
I became unsupportive when after her promotion she didn't make the expected income.
I wrecked her self confidence with my negativity towards her work.
I pushed to move out of our condo to a house we couldn't afford.
I put the priority of working out over time at home.
I acted inappropriately around the opposite sex.
I purchased an old car without telling and hid it.
I carried on the EA until the girl said she was going to hold off until I was divorced....it wasn't me who broke it off.
I continued to view pornography.
I flirted with the younglady who rode in my squad car and eventually had the affair with.
I told my wife I wanted the divorce.
I lied and said there was no other woman.
I lied and said I had done less then what I really had.
I then had sex with this younglady.
I started smoking and drinking.
I then had sex with a friend's ex.
I continued to mislead my wife.
I lost my job over an alcohol related incident because I chose to drink.
I am where I'm at because of my selfishness and my decisions.
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Clark Kent, here is a short list.
Mulan, I'm not one to sit on the fence having it both ways. Please, I know texting, emailing, or posting doesn't convey exactly what one feels or means as well as standing before you and looting their heart out, but I wronged the one I love. Treat me as you may so that it's embedded in me on how I should feel. I won't go anywhere, I'm here to save my marriage, however that may be.
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Okay. You are owning up to your own poor judgment in your marriage. We are here to help you as best we can.
To repair the damage done and save your family, you start by reading the articles on this site. Especially you read the books *His Needs, Her Needs* and *Surviving an Affair*.
You read the stuff so you'll know what everybody here is talking about when they try to give you advice.
And most of all, you have nothing but protection and empathy towards your betrayed wife.
Remember, TexasBob, she could have written that list, too. And at the end she could have written, "Because he was doing all this and therefore not meeting my emotional needs, I had an affair because that's what can happen in a marriage when your husband doesn't take care of you right."
But she did not do that.
It's not too late. Hang around for a while, start reading, and ask whatever questions you like. We'll be here.
Me, BW
WH cheated in corporate workplace for many years. He moved out and filed in summer 2008.
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