Dear step1,

I agree with you.

I feel badly now that I took my time to post this guy with my limited knowledge of MB principles, based on what he initially posted. And then from later posts learned his true situation. If a person here is not up front, then he/she will not be back at all based on the truth here. And yes, if they do come back, then we have to embrace them again.

While I do agree with you on this, I do feel that some of the people are too technical, and they actually seem like robots. Maybe what is opposed here, is the technical with the faith.

Tom

akshu, the bottom line is that you are enabling this affair by keeping their secret. Affairs thrive on secrecy so you are contributing to our own demise with this current strategy and almost ensuring it starts up again. Here is how you are enabling it:

1. affairs thrive on secrecy. They are fantasy love affairs that thrive on secrecy. Exposing them has the same effect as bringing in a crowd of onlookers to watch the crackheads get high. It is no fun getting high when people are watching with disgust on their face

2. not telling the OMW leaves the door open and makes it much easier for them to contact each other. If the OMW is watching, though, it will be harder for them to get away with it

3. this secret affair will eventually destroy the OM's marriage because lies prevent intimacy. If she knows the truth, she can at least have a chance at recovery. Without the truth, the lies will corrode the marriage. Once the marriage ends, he will be freed up to pursue your wife.

There is absolutely NO ONE who benefits from your secrecy. NO ONE. Your secrecy harms you, your children, your WW, the OM, his wife, your marriage. NO ONE benefits from your secrecy except the AFFAIR. That is how you are ENABLING the affair. You are in the contribute to your own demise program.

Tom, its ok if they are "technical" as long as they stick to Marriage Builders concepts because that is WHAT WORKS. That is what we are all here for.

The problem comes in when folks try to substitute their own personal opinion to the DETRIMENT of the newcomer. MB concepts WORK, and if promoting them is technical, then I say more power to ya!!

I was a good, godly girl until I turned 35. Then the slide began, with its pinnacle being my A at age 37/38. I did what your wife has done - a complete 180 in dress, talk, recreation.

She needs to smack the wall of reality. Expose not just for your M, but for her. She needs to feel every ounce of what she has done, and feel it hard. If she never sleeps with OM again but never changes, she will always be wayward.

There is the internet, skype, email, cell phones for immediate emotional access. Until emotional access is no longer enough, of course. When (not if) that occurs, they are a plane ride away.

Akschu,

There has been no contact ever since that second time she saw him.

From the way she is acting towards you there is contact of the worst kind, he is still her fantasy man in her mind. By exposing to OMW, OM will deny your wife killing the fantasy cold.

God Bless
Gamma

I have to tell you two things,

First you are alot wiser and calmer than I am, and the second is yes I agree.
As update toothache last night and uncomfortable but it is my wisdom tooth at age 67 and major dental surgury. It was infected last Nov. and have since delayed it. It will lay me up for a week. I am at home now because it does feel painful.
Mothers Day she had a nice time, and it doesnt' negate whast I have to do.

Ya know what I will say this to you right now - you seem to me like a wonderful person and wife and mother and advocate to others out their who need help.

I talked to Char tonight and do you not what hurts my heart most? When I came on here earlier I posted to ak or whatever, but what hurts me most is that someone , and not that I have seen, named 'Joey' would have the audacity to come here. She told me she would kick him in the balls. I stand by my statement that despite my faith he would be dead if he VIOLATED my wife and my marriage. I would stand tall if convicted of what I said. It Is Would be his decision if that happened.. she of cousrse objected, but do you know what we are each individuals and take our course and yes you would be staring up. Marital and others I believe you do not know at all how this affects people.

If I get kicked off here so be it but I am not at all sorry or my comments at all.

Tom

Tom,

Stop hanging your washing on other people's lines, please.

Tom, I know how you feel. Decent people are outraged by injustice. When decent people see mean, vicious cruel people like Joey, it makes them mad. It makes me mad too. But weasels are not worth going to jail over, IMO. I would say shoot them all if I didn't happen to know so many who actually turned themselves around and made amends to their victims. They are good people today. Its the ones who never change, who continue to harm others that make me sick just like you. Mean people suck.

How dare you presume to know how I, or anyone else here, is affected by infidelity! I am a SURVIVOR, Tom! I have lost over 50 pounds! And I wasn't heavy to begin with! And that's just the physical part! You think infidelity hasn't AFFECTED me???

And to go on a thread talking about killing a OM - where was that moral outrage when your WW's infidelity was discovered!? Why would you lead a new poster to believe that you were prepared to kill a OM when you know that's not what happened??? Do you really believe that is helpful to a poster who actually felt bad enough about his infidelity that he came on a pro-m site to get help?? You see death for this guy. I see redemption.

I will not comment to you further except to tell you, again, that you have gotten on multiple threads to reply to a poster and end up making it all about you and Char. You have your own thread for your updates. It is confusing to new posters who come on here with a question, only to get a response talking about two people they don't know and those people's situations that they aren't aware of.

And please refrain from making further pronouncements over your opinion that I don't know how infidelity affects people!!

oh crap, Tom, I missed this. Truly, that was a mean thing to say. Marital and many others on this thread know full well how this affects people. She was a victim of adultery just like you and spends enormous time and energy here helping others. She is an asset to this board and doesn't deserve this. I hope you reconsider your comment to her, Tom.

Wow.... just wow...

My ENTIRE LIFE has been lived in the shadow of my Mother's selfishness and infidelity. I had to grow up calling the POSOM 'dad' just to make her happy. My childhood was destroyed at the AGE OF 2 by infidelity.

I deal with the repercussions of my Mother's infidelity nearly every DAY OF MY LIFE! Her infidelity overshadowed the birth of MY FIRST CHILD! It reared it's head at our first Christmas as a family. It is something that makes me sick at night as I struggle with how to cope with it.

I KNOW what infidelity does and how it affects people. I've never NOT known. Which is why I said what I did to the OP......

......
I think I'm out of words.......

Hello, ak, welcome back to MB.

Yuk, what a terrible position to be in, hey? It amazes me just how many people have gone through/are going through the same [basic] thing; "FAR MORE" than I ever could have imagined if I had not have found this place and read so many of the threads (stories) here. Wow, talk about insight and a real eye-opener. I must admit, everytime I read a story such as this (yours) my heart breaks for those involved (if my heart breaks over "their" stories I can only "imagine" how much their own hearts are breaking...ugh!).

I have now read both of your threads (this one as well as your previous one from just a few short months ago) and there is something you said (in a variety of ways) regarding "no contact" that keeps jumping out at me. When you say your WW is no longer in contact with this OM, are you saying this as in no contact "whatsoever" (ie: no text messaging, no phone calls, no meeting up in chatrooms, Facebook messages, etc)?

The reason I ask is because, from your previous thread, you said this:

You do realize that no contact means "NO" contact "AT ALL," right? In otherwords, no contact in ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM. Contact between your WW and the OM does NOT have to be physical to be considered contact, so please make sure you are aware of this (if you are not already). From what you "do" know, when is the last time they contacted one another? I don't necessarily mean in the physical sense, either, I mean contact as in ANY FORM OF contact (be it by telephone, chat, text messaging and/or what have you)?

They could be miles and miles apart and still have contact; are you sure there is absolutely NO contact between them? And, if so, how are you so sure?

Again, welcome back, although I am sad to see you feel the need to be here in the first place.

All the best to you. :-)

Ok, I'm back and with my tail between my legs. You all were right. My WW continued contact via email until July where she and OM where sending racy emails (I haven't seen them) back and forth but no physical contact.

Then OMW was up late at night to nurse their 3 day old baby and discovered all of the emails. Word around the campfire is that OM started vomiting and didn't eat for 3 days.

OM sent a message to my wife saying that he was selfish and that he didn't want what he and his wife are going through for us and established NC.

So yea, I screwed up, I should have contacted OMW and chickened out. Thank God that she found out anyway and that she had plenty of evidence and that it happened right after their child was born.

At this point my wife is going through withdrawals. She removed her relationship status from facebook, unblocked him, then set her profile to allow everyone to see everything so that he can check up on her, and she checks his profile every few days to see if he is still married. Basically she has done everything she can short of contact. I think she is terrified to contact him because she doesn't want to be a home wrecker but she sure isn't over him yet. Perhaps it's that noble wayward crap. They honor each other by staying away, but still long for each other. <barf>

Our relationship is up and down. Some days she is really sweet to me and everything feels ok and other days she is totally depressed.

When confronted she refuses to block him again and changed her FB password so I told her that any further contact and we would be over.

Now the questions:

1. Since I am 99% sure there is NC should I just let her keep checking his FB profile and let her go through withdrawals knowing that he isn't contacting her?

2. Should I do a final 30 day plan A push then ask her to move out and go to plan B since she is holding onto everything she can even though he isn't contacting?

3. Should I get in touch with his wife anyway to confirm? If so? How? I don't want to disrupt the existing NC because it seems to be effective, but I don't know how I would contact her without OM finding out. Perhaps a private investigator to get her cell phone number?

I think it will take a while for my wife to get over this guy if it's even possible. This emotional affair has been going on since the day we where married so it's not like she can look back to all of the great times we had because even the good times were tainted by the affair.

Another thing to point out. We are in MC and the counselor says that she is having an identity crisis and says that she is acting like she is 15 again. I know that much of this is just fog, but it's important to know that she has legitimate emotional development issues from her parents divorce. Even in the best times we struggle with this. For example, I'll ask her if there is anything I can do for her, she will say no, then I'll say, "Ok, great, I'll go read a book then." She will then roll her eyes and act upset. I'll start prying a little bit and find out that there are really a bunch of things that she wants me to do, but can't verbalize any of them because she thinks I should just know. So then I try to read her mind and figure out what needs to be done, but then she gets really upset because I don't load the dishwasher her way or fold the towels like she wants. This is very difficult to live with. Basically she wants everything done exactly like she would do them, without saying a word, and if it doesn't happen she is bitter and resentful. To top it all off, I suspect she thinks that OM would just magically know how to do everything perfect so every time this happens, he gets points and I get withdrawals.

It's a huge problem that has always plagued our relationship and it's something her mother does and it's about ran off husband #3.

She just isn't capable of letting me be me, she puts me in her box then gets angry when I don't fit.

After all of the betrayal and difficulties I still love her and want to keep our family, but I'm finally to the point were I can let her go and move on as well. Surely life would be easier without all of this to deal with.

ak

ak, I guess my main question to you would be WHY you would CARE if OM knows you've contacted his BW? Why do you care about him at all??

I absolutely would contact his wife. I would start off with an apology to her for participating in enabling this devastating event in her life.

If she wants it, I would suggest you give her all the intel you have about the A.

Tell her that your WW keeps accessing OM's FB and suggest that she tell him to take it down. See if you can establish any kind of rapport with her so that the two of you can become allies. This is to help ensure that the A stays dead.

Do you have a keylogger on your computer? If not, get one.

Your wife has not established NC yet if she is constantly checking his FB profile that IS CONTACT!!

If I were you I would go to plan B now, get your letter together and get her out of your house. Change the locks, find an IM, and show her what she will be missing.

OM isn't contacting and his profile doesn't allow her to see much. She is just looking at his marriage status.

So the question is, will this guy fade from her heart if he dumps her to be with his family? If so then why not let it run it's course like many others are counseling me to do?

Will her looking at his profile keep the affair alive in her heart? If so then I need to go to plan B soon.

What about timing, she is in-between semesters right now and the kids have 1 week left before christmas break. Should I go plan B right now or wait until the kids are in christmas break too. I could do it after she starts classes just to make it even more devastating.

Also, what are the steps to plan B? Call OMW first? Or right after? Should I remove her from the checking accounts and credit cards first?

Anyone have a plan B checklist?

Viewing his mail, facebook, twitter is a form of contact. She is still under his spell.

What is your wife's emotional need. Do you spend 15 hours quality time with her.

She needs to realise that their is consequence for contact. Cut her access if necessary.

Without NC and WW checking up on OM all the time this PA has never ended.


"OK advice specific to your situation:

This affair has gone on and off for almost the entirety of your marriage. The met when your first child was born 10 years ago, reconnected when child no 2 was born 8 years ago and then recently. It is a long term, on again, off again affair."



Sorry to say this but as this has been pointed out by another member here I strongly think, no it's a must that have a DNA paternity test done.



Also every time WW breacks NC, and checking up OM on FB is breaking NC, WW must be fully exposed.

No, because she won't start withdrawal until contact ends. Looking at his fb page keeps her triggered and is a form of contact.


No, I would demand today that she stop looking his fb page because it is preventing the recovery of your marriage and is profoundly disrespectful to you. If you have to, cut off her internet.


I would contact the OMW to update her on the activities from your end and see if she sees any contact.


I agree. But she hasn't take the first step towards withdrawal. This is not a tapering off, this is a daily TRIGGER.


Focusing on her childhood is a distraction and a waste of time. She can change bad habits today and that is what this program does. The solution is to actually USE Marriage Builders. This program will eliminate all those annoying behaviors. But you have to use it. I have no idea what in the world an "identity crisis" is. If your wife doesn't know who she is you can show her her drivers license and save yourself the cost of a "counselor." That sounds like psychobabble.


Marriage Builders is the solution.


Marriage Builders...


Demand she end her affair, and use Marriage Builders.