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[Just today people are asking me to sign his goodbye card and plan to go for a goodbye lunch with them all.
What was your response? And what have you done to make sure this doesn't happen again?
I did not sign the card - I made an excuse about needing to give it some thought. I will also have "other plans" when the lunch is scheduled.
I am not ready to have this blown up at work. Management knows and that is good enough for me. I can ignore everyone and get through the next week before the Christmas break begins.
Feelings follow actions. It's not the other way around. If you sit around and wait until you "feel like" you want to do things for your BH, it'll never happen.
So do them anyway. And more than once. Again, and again, and again, whether you "feel like it" or not.
Though I would hope you might "feel like" saving your marriage and easing some of your BH's pain.
You may be very surprised at what happens.
Me, BW WH cheated in corporate workplace for many years. He moved out and filed in summer 2008.
[ I hear you. I just don't know how to do that. Logically it all makes sense. But I can't deal with a lot of stuff right now and the thought of trying extra hard at ANYTHING frankly is draining me. I cried myself to work this morning and just feel like crawling home and into bed. The first time the kids start whining about something, my skin will crawl and I will want to run away.
Athena, the solution is to go through the motions. I want to assure you that I am on your side. Even though I might smack you about a bit, please know I am your friend and I am cheering for you. I am nothing but damn proud of the bravery you have shown up til now. I just want to see you and your husband rewarded for your efforts. I do not want you to be unhappy, or punished.
But I know that the way to your future happiness is to do some things right now that you don't feel like doing. THAT IS THE SOLUTION.
There is no way to snap your fingers and make this easy, so you have to have patience and most of all you have to LEAD your marriage out of this swamp. I have given you a plan, but you have not taken the first step. You have to get up and walk. Make yourself take the steps.
Can you take the first step tonight? Sit down tonight and write out a schedule of 20+ hours for the next 7 days. Line up the babysitters. Do the work, Athena. Make the plans. Go through the motions.
When you are done with that, go to this link here [both of you] and read it together. Print out the questionaire, both of you take it and then exchange your questionaires. You should be focused on eliminating lovebusters in addition to meeting the top 4 intimate EN's in 20+ hours of UA.
What else can you do TODAY to ease your H's pain?
The sooner you get this this show on the road, the sooner you will be HAPPY AND FULFILLED WITH YOUR HUSBAND. I am telling you, Athena, it is possible, but you have to drive start the car. Start the car, my friend!
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt
I am not showing much empathy or compassion for BH - I can see that too. But I also don't see his pain. Perhaps it is selfishness on my part, but from my point of view he seems to be able to function during the day and not be debilitated by depressing thoughts. He can get stuff done and remember things. To my knowledge, he's never considered taking his own life to end the pain and hurt even more thinking about what that would do to his kids.
Trying to understand your BH's pain will be an impossible task for you. You are not at a point where you are able to appreciate what affect your actions have had on him or OM's wife. Some betrayed spouses appear to go on without missing a beat. Others throw up, lose weight, become suicidal. The only difference in these reactions is that they are processing their pain in different ways.
This is not for you to judge or to change your recovery goals over. You need to keep in the forefront of your mind the incredible harm you have caused.
If it helps, try to visualize his pain in another way. Imagine pressing a hot iron against his sleeping back, or running over his legs with your car. Then apologizing to him. "Oops, sorry about that." I'm not being snarky, athena. You may need to visualize harming your H and OMW as a wife to help you visualize an emotional trauma that was caused by your hand.
You appear to be going through the gnawing emotional toil of withdrawal. I have great hope for you. You're a smart girl.
Quote
I am selfish. I know I need to do something about that. I just have to figure out how to kick myself in the *ss and do it.
And because you're a smart girl, you may be analyzing this to a fault. Instead of thinking so much, ACT. Make a list: what little thing can you do for your H? It doesn't have to be big or elaborate.
Take home flowers for him. Tuck one-line love notes in places where he'll be sure to find them. Go shopping with him and pick out the ingredients for an elaborate meal you've never tried before. Make the meal together. Scratch his back. Rub his feet.
Expect nothing in return. You get the idea.
Last edited by maritalbliss; 12/13/1004:37 PM. Reason: Never type in a dark room without proofreading.
D-Day 2-10-2009 Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever! Thank you Marriage Builders!
Please allow me to add to the very good advice and painful truth these people are offering you.
"I'm sorry. Your signature says "I can't do this alone, but I can do this!", yet you are telling me to not expect anything from him and do it all by myself."
You should not try to do this alone but, unless your husband has super human emotional strength he is not going to be able to help you. It could be several months, if not longer, for him to be able to offer you consistent meaningful support as only a life partner can do.
"I also don't see his pain. Perhaps it is selfishness on my part, but from my point of view he seems to be able to function during the day and not be debilitated by depressing thoughts. He can get stuff done and remember things. To my knowledge, he's never considered taking his own life to end the pain and hurt even more thinking about what that would do to his kids."
It seems you have come to the conclusion that your husband and family are the only place or path where you can survive this difficult world we live in. I do not want to judge your decision but I will say that you need to follow through. Making a decision on this brings you 75% of the way and following through will bring you the rest. The MB plan is a very good structured plan. I'm sure you can't trust much of your feelings and thoughts. With the MB plan you don't need to think you just need to work. Work and exercise, by the way, are proven therapies for anxiety and depression. They keep you busy and focused. Now......speaking of following through. This quote from you tells me there is at least one thing your husband is and probably always has provided for you. A backbone! I'm sure he is suffering horribly yet he is getting things done, remembering things and providing some form of emotional stability for your family.
CK
Me-BH 45 Her-WW 43 PA-May 2006 about a week EA-for 2.5 months after DD-End of July 2006 NC with OM starting end of July 2006 Kids DD-12 DD-16 DD-19
athena, It occurs to me that if you do stop worrying about OM and start concentrating on healing your marriage and your BH, you will be brought face to face with your conscience and there will be no way to escape.
Are you trying to avoid facing this? Is this why you are feeling so angry and depressed and defensive, and why you seem to feel that you are suffering far more than your BH is?
P.S. There's only one way to "kick yourself in the *ss" and that's to let your conscience do it. I think that is what you are terrified of facing.
Me, BW WH cheated in corporate workplace for many years. He moved out and filed in summer 2008.
2. Get yourself fixed. Stop expecting ANYTHING from your husband at this time. You chose to have an affair, so something in you is severely broken. Until you get yourself fixed, you are not a safe spouse and are not to be trusted when it comes to making a respectful request about your needs.
I'm sorry. Your signature says "I can't do this alone, but I can do this!", yet you are telling me to not expect anything from him and do it all by myself.
That's odd, I never said do it alone. I said don't expect much from your husband. Get the help you need to be a healthy person from a professional. Now is not the time to dump responsibility for your faults or your personal growth on your husband.
I never said you have to go it alone. I said your husband can't help you, nor should you have many expectations until you are healthy and healed of whatever it was that made you think an affair was a healthy and loving way to have your needs met.
Originally Posted by athena99
But I do agree about the "safe spouse" part - right now I don't know what I want or need. I only know that right now I am bleeding too and need to put on my oxygen mask before I can deal with BH.
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
I want to bring back the focus to her H and his needs. See, her H is lying on the ground bleeding to death from the bloody beating he has endured at her hand. Is it reasonable to demand that your wounded victim get up and meet your needs when he can hardly breathe on his own?
Will kicking him in the head over and over again motivate him to meet her needs? What would motivate a wounded BS to get up and start engaging in the marriage?
Perhaps it would be motivating if Athena would start meeting his needs, stop lovebusting, stop pining for loserboy and TAKE THE LEAD IN THIS RECOVERY.
I hear you. I just don't know how to do that. Logically it all makes sense. But I can't deal with a lot of stuff right now and the thought of trying extra hard at ANYTHING frankly is draining me. I cried myself to work this morning and just feel like crawling home and into bed. The first time the kids start whining about something, my skin will crawl and I will want to run away.
I am not showing much empathy or compassion for BH - I can see that too. But I also don't see his pain. Perhaps it is selfishness on my part, but from my point of view he seems to be able to function during the day and not be debilitated by depressing thoughts. He can get stuff done and remember things. To my knowledge, he's never considered taking his own life to end the pain and hurt even more thinking about what that would do to his kids.
I am selfish. I know I need to do something about that. I just have to figure out how to kick myself in the *ss and do it.
Get the help you need to be a healthy person from a professional. Now is not the time to dump responsibility for your faults or your personal growth on your husband.
I never said you have to go it alone. I said your husband can't help you, nor should you have many expectations until you are healthy and healed of whatever it was that made you think an affair was a healthy and loving way to have your needs met.
You are right - it is not his job to help me fix the mess I made of my life. I need to seek counselling for my depression and try meeting his needs without expecting any of my needs to be met. And I need to push through the multitude of feelings that I am having - both pining for OM and not wanting to be around BH.
I see these words in front of me and the thought of doing all that without enjoying any of it just hurts more. How long do I grin and bear it (go through the motions) before I should start feeling something for BH? Will it really take months of me being unhappy and his love bank filling up before I start to feel anything again?
I see these words in front of me and the thought of doing all that without enjoying any of it just hurts more. How long do I grin and bear it (go through the motions) before I should start feeling something for BH? Will it really take months of me being unhappy and his love bank filling up before I start to feel anything again?
It will take FOREVER if you never start! The sooner you start the sooner you will feel love and passion for him. And it will not take long for him to fill your lovebank and vice versa. It usually comes in a matter of WEEKS. But you have to do the work, Athena. Feelings follow actions, feelings follow actions...
Take the lead and lead your marriage.
Have you done the assignment I gave you tonight?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt
And I need to push through the multitude of feelings that I am having - both pining for OM and not wanting to be around BH.
This is right. You need to start walking despite those feelings. Those feelings will CHANGE if you change your actions. Those feelings are keeping you crippled and DEPRESSED. Walk forward, my friend.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt
What you are seeking is much bigger, deeper and more fulfilling than enjoyment. Don't give up on yourself or your family without first trying your hardest to realize Purpose, Meaning and Faith.
CK
Me-BH 45 Her-WW 43 PA-May 2006 about a week EA-for 2.5 months after DD-End of July 2006 NC with OM starting end of July 2006 Kids DD-12 DD-16 DD-19
Get the help you need to be a healthy person from a professional. Now is not the time to dump responsibility for your faults or your personal growth on your husband.
I never said you have to go it alone. I said your husband can't help you, nor should you have many expectations until you are healthy and healed of whatever it was that made you think an affair was a healthy and loving way to have your needs met.
You are right - it is not his job to help me fix the mess I made of my life. I need to seek counselling for my depression and try meeting his needs without expecting any of my needs to be met. And I need to push through the multitude of feelings that I am having - both pining for OM and not wanting to be around BH.
I see these words in front of me and the thought of doing all that without enjoying any of it just hurts more. How long do I grin and bear it (go through the motions) before I should start feeling something for BH? Will it really take months of me being unhappy and his love bank filling up before I start to feel anything again?
Athena, you talk about "pining for OM" like it's something that's happening to you, as if you're simply being acted upon by an outside force.
(2x4 alert): One month into no contact, it's time for you to knock that crap off, okay?
This other guy tried to build his own little corner of happiness on top of other people's pain. He maintained a deception. He took what wasn't his. (Never mind that you freely offered it to him... that's beside the point. He could've said no.) He was, throughout your affair, utterly selfish. To make that dearth of character appealing, he had to be utterly duplicitous. He was able to consider your husband and say to himself, "I care not a whit about that man, my fellow human being." Your OM cared so little for your husband that he was not merely indifferent to your husband, but actively undertook actions that could reasonably be expected to have the effect of further sabotaging your husband's marriage.
Wow, Athena, sounds like a real noble soul on a white charger. Swept you off your feet, did he? He took a big, steaming dump on your marriage. No, he's not responsible for issues in your marriage pre-dating your involvement with him, but he was certainly responsible for the fine body of work & character he put together during your involvement.
I don't say any of that lightly, Athena. In addition to betraying my own wife, I was the OM for the married OW. She pined for me. And the "me" she pined for, wasn't worth pining for. The guy I was for those 10 & a half weeks was a courteous, chivalrous, handsome, caring, available, PACK OF LIES. Looked nice to her on the outside, and was just as ugly as could be inside.
And that's what you're pining for...
Me: FWH, 50 My BW: Trust_Will_Come, 52, tall, beautiful & heart of gold DD23, DS19 EA-then-PA Oct'08-Jan'09 Broke it off & confessed to BW (after OW's H found out) Jan.7 2009 Married 25 years & counting. Grateful for forgiveness. Working to be a better husband. "I wear the chain I forged in life... I made it link by link, and yard by yard" ~Jacob Marley's ghost, A Christmas Carol "Do it again & you're out on your [bum]." ~My BW, Jan.7 2009
Just got the kids to bed - it is already 9pm - this is a typical night for us. We've been up since 5:30am, we're both tired and just want to go to sleep.
We have no babysitters. Our family is all at least an hour away and the closest of them is actually leaving for vacation in a couple of days. Everyone else has busy lives this time of year and we don't feel we can ask someone to drive for hours to watch our kids. We never did get a local kid to sit as we don't know anyone in our neighborhood and I don't have the energy to look around and find one. Yes, excuses, excuses. But that is just the situation.
I have the day off tomorrow and BH is taking the afternoon off. This will probably be our only alone time this week and he wants to go grocery shopping. He needs ingredients for a dish he's taking to work, so it makes sense.
Just got the kids to bed - it is already 9pm - this is a typical night for us. We've been up since 5:30am, we're both tired and just want to go to sleep.
We have no babysitters. Our family is all at least an hour away and the closest of them is actually leaving for vacation in a couple of days. Everyone else has busy lives this time of year and we don't feel we can ask someone to drive for hours to watch our kids. We never did get a local kid to sit as we don't know anyone in our neighborhood and I don't have the energy to look around and find one. Yes, excuses, excuses. But that is just the situation.
I have the day off tomorrow and BH is taking the afternoon off. This will probably be our only alone time this week and he wants to go grocery shopping. He needs ingredients for a dish he's taking to work, so it makes sense.
Sounds like the kids need an earlier bedtime.
Spouses are to be negotiated with, not children.
"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr
"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer
"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
[We have no babysitters. Our family is all at least an hour away and the closest of them is actually leaving for vacation in a couple of days. Everyone else has busy lives this time of year and we don't feel we can ask someone to drive for hours to watch our kids. We never did get a local kid to sit as we don't know anyone in our neighborhood and I don't have the energy to look around and find one. Yes, excuses, excuses. But that is just the situation.
Ok, let me know when you are serious about recovery and ready to look for creative solutions. There isn't anything I can do if you aren't willing to do the work and I am not willing to do more work than you. Its your marriage after all.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt
Ok, let me know when you are serious about recovery and ready to look for creative solutions. There isn't anything I can do if you aren't willing to do the work and I am not willing to do more work than you. Its your marriage after all.
I know, I can't expect anyone to offer more help and advice until I am putting in effort of my own.
Creativity is just something I don't have right now. My brain feels like jello.
Though no matter what excuses I make or feelings I have, I know it will be the same advice. Feelings follow actions.
Originally Posted by HeadHeldHigh
Sounds like the kids need an earlier bedtime.
Spouses are to be negotiated with, not children.
Yup. Add it to the long list of things I can't do right. Ever since the first one was born, I've felt like a failure as a mom - I was completely unprepared to be a parent (and still am in many ways). And now I am realizing I was completely unprepared to be a wife.
It's a pretty deep hole I've dug myself into. It may take a while for me to dig my way out.
Ok, let me know when you are serious about recovery and ready to look for creative solutions. There isn't anything I can do if you aren't willing to do the work and I am not willing to do more work than you. Its your marriage after all.
I know, I can't expect anyone to offer more help and advice until I am putting in effort of my own.
Creativity is just something I don't have right now. My brain feels like jello.
Though no matter what excuses I make or feelings I have, I know it will be the same advice. Feelings follow actions.
Originally Posted by HeadHeldHigh
Sounds like the kids need an earlier bedtime.
Spouses are to be negotiated with, not children.
Yup. Add it to the long list of things I can't do right. Ever since the first one was born, I've felt like a failure as a mom - I was completely unprepared to be a parent (and still am in many ways). And now I am realizing I was completely unprepared to be a wife.
It's a pretty deep hole I've dug myself into. It may take a while for me to dig my way out.
Sweetheart... please remove your cranium from your rectum. All you are going to find in your descending colon is crap.
"I fail at this, I fail at that, may as well go sit in the corner and pout."
Yes, you have a deep hole to dig out of... so the question is this; what are you waiting for? The right time? Never gonna happen - in fact, you couldn't have chosen a more wrong time.
Oh, now that I've crapped all over everything, now I want better! I deserve it!
You want to be a better wife? You want to be a better mother? Then get off of your butt and do it!
Life can give 2 shakes less if you are unprepared, it's happening anyway.
Last edited by HeadHeldHigh; 12/14/1010:30 AM.
"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr
"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer
"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
So, here�s what�s been going on the last little while � my perspective only. Sorry it is so long. Hopefully that doesn't scare anyone away.
First off, I want to apologize to you all. You gave me good advice and I haven�t been following it as best as I could. I am frustrated with myself and in the sprit of the New Year, I resolve to try harder.
We�ve been spending more time together than in a very long time � Christmas shopping, working on crosswords in the morning over a cup of coffee, curling up on the couch to watch a favorite movie. I�ve been trying to do nice things for him and I know he appreciates it � he actually gets weepy when he says thank you because it�s been a long time since I�ve been really nice to him.
Problem is � I am still not feeling anything towards him. In fact, I am often overwhelmed with feelings for OM. I try to push those thoughts and feelings away, but they pop up a lot � I am reminded by so many things � stores where he liked to clothes shop with me, a brand of lotion I wear that he liked, a time on the clock that he always seemed to notice and now I can�t help but notice it too, songs on the radio we listened to together. I know it sounds childish, but the memories are really strong and even though I haven�t seen or spoken to him in over 6 weeks, I have thought about him daily and dreamt about him at least once a week. Yes, I can try to stop the �pining� � maybe that will reduce the involuntary dreaming. Last night I dreamt I was babysitting his son and actually talking to OMW about it. We were crying on the phone and I was apologizing to her.
Go ahead and say it � OM is a POS and didn�t respect me or my marriage. Neither did I. But we are only human. You warned me that BH and OMW should limit their contact regarding the A so they don�t find themselves getting into their own A � it can happen that easily.
In a way I guess I am trying to justify my feelings and thoughts, but I also know I really need advice on how to proceed. I admit I am not blindly trusting in the system here � sometimes I think it doesn�t apply to my situation and am hoping to get some guidance on what I am going through. I had read a couple of books by Mira Kirshenbaum (before D-Day) as I tried to figure out what to do with my situation. One was called �Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay� and the other was �When Good People Have Affairs�. Her advice is completely different and I am having trouble reconciling what is right for me.
I know I am not trying my hardest to make things work with BH. But I don�t know how to get close to him. I cringe at every touch and I do not look forward to kissing him. The other day he came home from work and was happy and I let him kiss me. It was sloppy and slimy and completely turned me off. I pulled away after and wiped my lips and commented that it was very wet. I know he was hoping it would be a wonderful moment, but I left him feeling like he�d failed again.
I heard you all loud and clear when you said that my wants were not to be trusted right now � I don�t know what I want. And I am supposed to �just do it� � the feelings will follow.
Question: How do the betrayed spouses feel when they know their waywards are just going through the motions out of responsibility, that they are just faking it while they wait for the real feelings to return? When he asks if I like something he is doing, should I tell him the truth (that I don�t like it), or lie and say it is fine?
I feel like I am lying to him every day � I say �I love you� but in my head it is only because I know I should be saying it. I want to crawl away when he puts his hand on my body. I am fine with holding hands as it feels platonic. But if his hand is on my thigh, I panic and my skin feels like it is on fire. My body is screaming NO.
I know he needs SF, but can I really �just do it� when my whole being is not ready for that? Don�t get me wrong, I am eager for some SF myself, but would rather be alone than involve him. I already know how it will play out and why set myself up for that disappointment?
We have a family holiday planned in a month (us, the kids and my parents) for 2 weeks in Hawaii. I am hoping that we will feel closer by then and be able to enjoy a romantic place like that. But I feel so unsure of that right now.
He is a nice guy and I married him for some nice and honorable reasons. But I worry that I have changed and my needs and wants have changed � possibly to a place that he isn�t able to meet anymore. As a result of my A, maybe we don�t fit anymore. I don�t think after 6 weeks we are any further ahead. Maybe it is still too soon. Or should we have seen some positive change by now?
I read posts by other WW and see that they are doing so much to win their BH back � because they want him back. I�m not so sure I want mine back. That is harsh and horrible to say, but I don�t feel like fighting to get anything else out of my marriage � my relationship with BH is fine the way it is � just friends. But I do want more out of a marriage � I just don�t know how to feel that way about BH.
I �know� what I should be doing � it makes perfect sense. But telling him the truth about my feelings seems so foreign. He hasn�t asked about the affair AT ALL. So, it is all still hanging out there, unexplored. I don�t think it is my job to bring it up all of the time � that would feel like kicking him even more. I think I need to wait for him to ask questions � is that right? Not that I want to get into the dirty details, but other than a couple of high-level questions, I have not shared anything significant about my last few years with him.
So, bottom line � is it still the same prescription � spend the quality time together (15+ hours per week) doing the little things? Or am I in a bigger mess? We started doing the EN questionnaire and never finished going over it together. But I am confused about whether my answers mean anything right now � can my judgment about what I want be trusted?
If the OM were completely and permanently out of the picture - if he moved to Mars or got hit by a bus and was dead - would you still feel the same way?
Me, BW WH cheated in corporate workplace for many years. He moved out and filed in summer 2008.
