There is no such animal as a unique affair.

If the details would identify you or your wife as a public figure, then I can see why you are reluctant to give them. Even so, you could still give the simple details of why they could not have made contact before this summer, and put this line of enquiry to rest.

This women and my wife were not close. This women went through a divoce 5 years ago and my wife offered her some solace. They had not really been in contact until very recently. My wife didn't even really know her kids. He was in jail.

For how long was he in jail?

Had your wife met him before he went?

This is an extremely dangerous mindset for a BS to have. Not only do you put yourself at risk for further manipulation...but you also are at risk for more pain when/if you uncover more lies.

I speak from experience, it was very painful to learn that my seemingly repentant but still foggy H was still lying to me about several things, including history of the A and continued contact...and even a 2nd OW. I wish I had just assumed most of what he was saying was a lie instead of going the other way, if that makes any sense.

She really didn't know him before.

Sugar are you a lawyer ?

Good grief, no!

I wish I were. I'd be much better off.

I'm puzzled about what I said that led you to guess that!

You're a great cross-examiner.

Most women are (GD&R!!)

????

PDC,
I have to say this as a mom of a son who is 12, and a minor. That om is really imho, an other child.

It bothers me that nobody here has thought how predatory your ww is. She is a grown woman, middle aged, and had sex with a teenager, most likely who was a minor when he met her.

I seriously doubt the 18 yo was in jail for years, and that I believe your ww met him somewhere earlier. Somewhere else.

I am very sympathetic to your situation, but there has to be responsible behaviors here, and if your ww committed a crime, that needs to come out also.

If any friend of mine (I'm 41)ever came onto my son when he was 17 or even 18, you could be assured the police would have to intervene, as I would have the woman jailed as a minimum. If I had found them, it would not have been pretty. Your ww is almost THIRTY years older than this teen. Whether he had run ins with the law is irrelevant. Underage is underage, male or female. I am also wondering why the mom of this teen guy isn't taking action either.

Something to me tells me she did meet him a good while back, and the story your ww gave you about re-connecting with an acquaintence, a woman who was a divorcee who she allowed to cry on her shoulder and then suddenly asks her to move in and then suddenly is boinking her son sounds too strange to be any coincidence.

What line of work is your ww in? Just wondering. But if you are taking the words of a wayward spouse as if they are truth, you maybe should reconsider. And please, please realize that a woman in her late 40's messing around with a boy, b/c seriously 18 is still in my book a boy, has a serious problem and possibly a serious legal issue on her hands.

Please tell me you didn't give your WW the link to your thread?

It is not just her word I'm taking. Please back off I know the irrefuteable truth here.

Why wouldn't I? I thought the principle hear was complete honesty and openness.

\

No, it is not when it comes to adultery.

pdc, I should have explained, I apologize. Dr Harley does advocate openess and honesty EXCEPT in the case of infidelity or abuse. Your thread is a reaction to the former and should not be shared. There are many posts on your thread that give you advice about your wife's honesty which will not be helpful if she reads. It will likely make her angry which will cause her to lash out at posters who were, in good faith, attempting to help you.

If she is withholding the truth in any way, you will lose this forum as a resource.

Don't get me wrong, this forum can be an excellent resource for a marriage that is truly in recovery. And maybe yours is, I don't know, but many here have questions about her honesty.

Okay. Keep this to yourself. We're telling you something you need to hear.

People are trying to help you, pdc. Try not to tell them things like "please back off".

You have told us that the boy was in jail at the time your wife moved in to his house, but not for how long.

Why not just give dates and stop this time-wasting?

When did she become friends with this woman?

When did the boy go to jail (month, year)?

Are you saying that he was in jail for months before the affair, then came out for a few weeks and is now back in jail?

I went back and studied the opening statement, and there were a few notable things there.

1. The mother of the teenager came to pdc, within a few weeks of the sexual encounters. This to me must mean the affair had started recently. Of course it could have been some tawdry thing like the mother got mad or jealous at pdcs wife and/or her own son and exposed them out of spite, but it is more likely she was upset by thier new blatent sexual exploits.
So that makes it just started

2. PDC had stated his WW was one of the most honest people he knew, and held high standards. I assume this was amoung all the people and community for some years, and even with the boys Mom. This would explain why she. the Mom, came to pdc upset, because of the shock of it.

Again sounds like it just started.


But PDC, you seem to miss the point my friend, she was not honest with you with the extent of sexual needs, and passion, and trapping she had felt in prior years. She might have had fantasys of men and pushed them aside for quite some time prior. Because she stubbornly held on to her morals and integrity, and somehow, somewhere, something clicked and she gave up on those things. Probably peri-menopause helped depress her to a point of breaking. Along with the feelings anyone would have when left alone with a set of standards that seemed to not be bringing any rewards anymore emotionally.

Because you yourself stated the poor state both of your communication was in for some time, you must realize that this is possible, and the main reason you are here, because you guys need help. Understanding the things that breed affairs, and how they develop over time, sometimes a long time, is part of the wisdom found in the posters here. I believe you that she had not had an active affair going with the boy before, but I don't believe she hadn't entertained the fantasy at times, for some time. Happens to many people, in the right/wrong circumstances, and that is what we all need to protect in our marriages, the enviroment in which it exists and breeds love and intimacy, or cold indifferance.

None of us got married thinking passion would not stay, in fact most of us were said or thought it would never ever leave, or we would not have got together in the first place. As you have allready said, issues had piled up between you, and now you are reaping the consequences like many do, when we push them to the side. They rear their ugly head and don't go away because thats how relationship works. You have to maintain them to a standard together, with devoted time and communication, constantly. No body can live without love, and in desparation so many reach out for anything, even someone like the kid you gracously did not put in the hospital.

So in your wife there must have been some form of dishonesty that had developed with maybe influence from outside sources, menopause, skechy friends, a marraige that had lost its intimacy, too much work and not enough play/pressure of being a Mom. Maybe even being the strong and reliable dedicated wife who many people leaned on with all thier problems who wondered why she bothered to behave that way when she was unhappy. How many times did others let her down? How many people did she counsel in thier problems that drew her strength? How did this happen to her? Where did her independance and whatever stubborness you both must have had between you for some time betray both of you? Strong minded people with good moral standards can break down if left alone with no support in bad circumatnces. With the world and tragic circumstances surrounding them and lies are the norm, with so many grabbing as much as they can and using others, people can become desparate and afraid. I think this happened over time with your wife, and your smart enough to have come here knowing why. It was in your opening statement.

So lets just say that it has been brewing for some time, the possibility of passion. intimacy, excitment within your wifes mind, probably she was holding out for her marriage to bring that, but gave up. In those times alone and needing the closeness you guys lost at some point. She was at least, you must admit, not honest with how she felt about what she was missing, and that is the breeding place of affairs, secrecy, and in her ability to keep a secret it backfired as she kept it from you how much lonliness she really felt, didn't beleive you cared. probably anyone did really, and was not honest about that either.

There is nobody who has an affair who is totally honest. Nobody wrecks thier life and goes that low without destroying themselves in the process. Nobody with a 23 year marriage who hurts it like that is even honest with themselves. Why would it be so far fetched to beleive that she belived she would/could not be dishonest with others? She believed the lie that an affair was the right thing to do. Do you think its possible she hid other things before? Thats what is at the crux of what other posters are asking.

I know we are all trying to get to the bottom of this, and many things are bound to be hidden whithin your wifes mind that had been entertained at some point before she had the thing with the kid. They were there, even if she didn't accually sleep with anyone before, but the desparation has been brewing for some time, thats the point. These things in a marriage of 23 years don't happen overnight or without reason. I hope we can all help to figure them out.


I hope the issue of whether she was seeing the dumb kid prior or not can be dropped too. Suffice it to say thier was an imagined lover in her mind somewhere before she had one. That understood we can go about helping you be that lover again, and recover your preciuos marriage.