Sugarcane is right.

I think we should help people here, and not post snide comments about them.

He was gone where all day yesterday?

Why are you so upset about it?

What is the Wed evening engagement? Does it involve smoozing clients over cocktails and you aren't invited? Is that why you are upset?

Just trying to understand.

work, SW. It's always work. They held an event, making for a 13-day work week without a day off.

A while ago, we had a discussion after he'd had two events in the same week and wanted my blessing to do a third. He thought he could schmooze me into it by 'allowing' me to go, but since I'd already gone to one that week, I had no interest in going. He tries to play them off like 'dates' for us--I want real dates, not stuff revolving around his job. I don't want to have to tag along with my H to one event after another just to spend time with him. I want him to make time for ME, special. Anyway, back then (this was early November, I believe) he said he would not volunteer to do any more of these 'extras'. Events were a big problem at the last job. This one is worse.

So I'm po'd that he volunteered to do this event Wed, and how he went about it. He called me and said he might *have* to go and if he did, would I be interested in going with him? I said if you HAVE to be there, okay. So then he ran to his boss and told him that he'd volunteer to be their guy for it. What part of *have to* is that??? He said he talked to me about it and I agreed! Crazy. I said, "If you had called me and said you were thinking about volunteering to do this, I would have said no, I didn't think that was a good idea, especially given the Sunday event this week."

Just same old, same old.

same old independent behavior. Sorry this is happening to you, CWMI.

As a person who fights with my own tendency towards IB, I recognize the tactic he used to get his own way:

This is exactly how it goes on my end, as well. I understand, however, that with my H's job it is more required and he does not EVER volunteer himself for more time than he already has to put in, but good grief, he puts in SO much time.

He will ask me to go to some of the functions and play it off as a date for us, as well. Sometimes I will go simply because I have not seen him for more than 30 minutes on any given day of the work week, and I want to get any time that I can. Mostly, though, I get ignored and stuck talking to people I do not want to hang out with.

This morning as he was heading out the door was when he decided to tell me he will be out every night this week (so work all day and then a night even each evening). I asked him why he was just NOW telling me, to which he replied that he did (he did not, but this is what he does). I think I would remember something like that. Our son has 3, two hour sports practices this week, so I guess I will shlepping kids to and from school and practices this week by myself with not much notice.

So tired of it, I want to SCREAM.

Hang in there.

This is my H's tactic, too. I call him out every time I see it, but he just keeps doing it.

hehe...does he also say silly stuff like, "Well when I talked to you about it I didn't KNOW I was going to volunteer, so how could I mention it?" lol...he has NO IDEA how dumb that sounds. He thinks it is very clever, and I'm the dumb one.

He's right, though. I am the dumb one. I spent a while this afternoon browsing my posting history and after two years, along with six months of counsel with SH, I'm in exactly the same crappy marriage that brought me here to begin with. Being manipulated, lied to, or ignored. None of that has changed, except for that brief period right after this job started. He said to me, "Yeah, you were happy when you thought everything was just right, weren't you?" (in a nasty tone)

I said, "Yep, I sure was. Funny how that works."

I just did the same thing. There will be a great day or weekend we had, then months and MONTHS on end before I have another day where I feel we are in a real marriage. Reading back makes me sad. After almost 2 years of counseling, the tools we have and how nothing ever lasts...

I am dumb, too.

And yes, he pulls those same stupid stunts on me, as well.

Thread jack and pointless observation but I'm struck reading this thread that there are soooo many people on here who hate that their husband puts in long hours, dedicates his life to his career, etc, etc. The counterpoint to that is my marriage where my STBXW has encouraged me to work longer hours, lots of overtime, etc where I don't get compensated for it (military). All because she didn't want to spend that much time with me. I wanted to spend time with her but that apparently was a LB. I didn't have my "own life".

So at this point in my life, I think it's enlightening and interesting that there are women out there like yourselves that actually WANT to spend time with their spouse. Why on earth your spouses don't see, understand and want to enthusiastically comply with that is absolutely MIND BOGGLING. No JOB is worth more than family. [/rant]

TC, I totally get CWMI and the women that want more time with their husbands. I've said on numerous occassions to my wife, "I'm sorry I don't make more money." To which she replies, "I'd rather have you home than have you make more money."

To my wife and wives like CWMI, family time is more important than a few more bucks in the account.

I know I shouldn't apologize to my wife. I make a decent salary; I'm a school teacher with coaching stipends. But it sure would be nice to be able to buy her nice jewelery, run off on vactaions, have 10K sitting in the bank just in case, and so she wouldn't have to work until all the kids are in school fulltime.

But her top needs are FC and DS...so even if I was making a million a year, I'd be working really long hours and she wouldn't be happy.

Sory for going off topic for a bit CWMI.

I have been thinking lately that we would be happier if we moved into a much smaller house and paid a much smaller mortgage. I think we would be happier with less crap.

A couple months ago -- I did not get a promotion I was going after. The kid who worked for me got the job. Younger kid, I brought him on, taught him.... he's excellent. Really like the guy. But then he becomes my boss. And (you can't make this up) I was actually called with this news ON MY 40th BIRTHDAY! "Hey! Happy 40th! You didn't get the job. But your employee jumped over you and he got the job."

What a punch in the gut.

But, you know what -- he is working his [censored] off and I am spending more time at home than ever ! I am good at what I do and I am finding it easier and easier.

I think getting laid off and moving into a small apartment would make us happy.

So all that being said.... Ladies -- you really need to sit down with men and talk about this work thing. Its not easy out there. There is a ton of stress involved in providing for the family. In being a bread winner. In witnessing HIGH unemployment. In raises not coming through... bonuses getting cut... seeing your colleagues lose their job. Its been rough out there and the job is not guaranteed. Sometimeswe have to do more and more and cannot just clock off at 5:00. I had a buyer that was at his desk at 6AM and didn't leave until past 6PM. And usually wanted to have drinks after work. As much as I wanted to cut back... leaving the house at 7:30AM and getting home at 6:00 PM and never checking blackberry all night or weekend really made me a slacker compared to other people.

All that being said... I really started to realize that it was killing the relationship at home -- which I wanted to strengthen. Little things make a big difference. Communicate. Make a call home. Figure out when your wife likes to get a phone call and make a fully focused phone call for ten minutes. No distractions. Go into a conference room if you can.

Also, text'ing is a great invention. I like to text my wife throughout the day. Just silly stuff and important stuff. Its important to stay connected even when you're really busy and really must be away.

Right now however, I wish my wife would take the initiative to save money. Cut back on something. I mean really pick some things we don't need and get rid of them. Too many cable channels... some magazines... some community center activities for the kids... sell old clothes at Once Upon a Child to make some dough. Sell some crap on CraigsList. Bust our butts together on a garage sale (I did the garage sale all by myself last summer) Cut a cell phone plan. Cut the nasty high sugar expensive snacks in the pantry. Don't go out to every new release movie in 3D or IMAX.

Really sit down and have a conversation about this work thing with husbands. It defines us. Its impressive how hard we can work. Its amazing how much we can provide. But it becomes a trap. Wouldn't be surprised if some of your men don't feel trapped by it all and have a lot of anxiety about being able to provide and keep that job.

Just for arguement's sake, how do men NOT know-or take the time to figure out-if their wives are spenders or savers before marriage? Or, is it bait-and-switch sort of thing? Or is it because needs change over time?

I'm a woman and the breadwinner.I'm a saver, and so is my husband. Being a saver (amongst other things) is a quality that we specifically looked for in partners.

Good question.
Easy out answer is: most people between 20-25 really don't know who they are, why they're getting married.

I don't remember looking for "spender" or "saver".

My wife figured I would be a good bread winner. I had potential anyway -- and she wanted to take some years off work to raise the children. We did have that discussion at least.

But my older sister pointed out to me recently that she knew 15 years into being a homemkaer my wife was going to wake up and say, "Hey! Who Am I? Why did I do this? I'm not happy with this deal."

How old were you when you married?

I just married for the second time at age 45. I had an actual 'top ten' list that I had created some years ago of qualities I wanted in a mate. On that list is ability to provide for a family and willingness to live within one's means.

My dh is so much like me in this area. It sure makes life easier.

You can't tell early 20 somethings this stuff though. I'm trying to teach my son to be conservative....

Stretch, after having this conversation many many times with just he and I, we had many more with Steve Harley. Six months worth. Lots of $$$ was spent having these conversations. This is the result--my H volunteering to spend more time at work. There isn't anything left to say.

Stretch's point is well made, but probably doesn't apply to your situation CWMI. From this side of the computer screen it feels more like your dh gets his affirmation from work and co-workers. That kind of external affirmation is more important to him than your happiness or approval.

Maybe.

Maybe. Or maybe work approval is more predictable. And less subject to being withdrawn over a single word or deed. Not sure that Mr. CWMI prefers Admiration received at work to Admiration received at home. More likely he feels more confident that if he expends energy at work, he will receive Admiration. Whereas he fears that efforts expended at home will be "wasted" since CWMI won't provide Admiration no matter what he does.

Not saying this is true. Not saying CWMI is unwilling or unable to provide copious amounts of Admiration. But I have gotten the impression that CWMI has very high standards. Not necessarily unreachable ones. But I can understand if Mr. CWMI fears he won't be able to reach them. Whereas he feels that the standards at work are far more attainable.

I understand that the ethos of MB is that a happy is marriage is worth whatever effort it requires. And those people who have attained one all seem to say it is, so I will take their word for it. But for those of us who have never experienced it. And who fear we never will. When asked the question "are you willing to do whatever it takes to create a marriage in which your spouse feels romantic love for you most of the time"? The answer may well be "no". If I were someone dead set on having a fulfilling marriage, I wouldn't want to be married to one of us, either.

Not assigning blame on either side. Simple unhappy fact. In order to feel fulfilled, one spouse may require their partner to put forth an effort that the other spouse simply is not willing to expend on a persistent basis. It is like being married to a Renter. When the rent gets too high, they bail. Very sad when the couple does not realize this until years or decades later.

I completely understand this, I really do. I KNOW my husband is defined by his career. It is who he is to the core. He *used* to make those calls, texts, come home and have conversations with me. Now, I am lucky to get a call and the texts have stopped, as have the conversations when he gets home from work. He plugs right into this laptop and works until bed time. He has had this career before I came along. Back during dating, he was available to take the time for me, but as the years have passed, he chooses to put more time into work and less into his home life. I see this as a choice. It does NOT mean us wives do not understand how hard, stressful and burdening it is to be the breadwinner. Men still have a choice to cherish their wives and not put every ounce of effort into work. I see a lot of men making the WRONG choice and a lot of wives waiting for them to come home some day and treat them with the care they did before.

I think for her H and my H, this is a DEFINITELY, not a maybe. It is very sad, frustrating and a sock to our self esteem (sorry CWMI if that is not how you feel, just assuming here, since we seem to be in a similar boat).