It doesn't matter if it is or not because the continued contact just means it will resume in the future because they are both triggered. What matters is she is still seeing the OM at her child's sports events. It is because of this that recovery of your marriage will not happen. She has to withdraw first and in order to withdraw, contact must end.

Sbt, what has to happen to change this up is she has to end all contact with the OM and commit to making recovering your marriage or you are damned to a death of a thousand cuts.

If she doesn't fix the problems that led to the first affair, there will be another one. That is why you have nothing to lose by making it a CONDITION that she end contact with the OM and commit to a program of recovery. Make this a condition, sbt. It is in both your best interest to raise the bar. Right now she is just living down to your expectations.


Agree. Her feelings for the OM are not gone. If they were, she wouldn't be sacrificing her marriage and children's family just for a sighting of the OM. That would be ludicrous.


There is one in Surviving an Affair. Do you have that book?

She sounds like a typical entitled wayward wife to me. Truly it doesn't matter why she acts a certain way, but that she STOP acting that way in order to recover her marriage.

First things first:

Calm down. She can ask for the world to be given to her, but it doesn�t mean it�s going to happen. So she can request sole physical and legal custody and massive support, but the odds are very high she won�t get it.

But the gauntlet has been thrown and you�re now playing a different ballgame than that of a man dealing with a WW who talks divorce and does nothing about it. Your wife has now taken that step.

Erase from your mind any possibility that she will return as your wife. Is it possible? Sure. But it won�t happen through wishful thinking. I�m convinced that the only real wakeup a WW has which will make her return is the very real possibility that she will lose custody and have to pay you CS and that she will rarely see her kids.

The only men who successfully make that happen are the ones who set hope aside and take action. Action means that you fight a full one assault from a legal standpoint. You have a police report over her assault on you. Do you have witnesses of this? Don�t use your kids as witnesses, that will backfire.

Get a kid�s attorney. They can talk to your kids, learn about her violence, and you can influence the outcome that way. That evidence can�t be submitted in court since you didn�t press charges, she wasn�t convicted, and it boils down to your word against hers.

But if the kids discuss that with their attorney, the kid�s attorney will take that into account when he/she makes their recommendations to the court, which tend to be how judges rule.

But my main message is that you need to set hope aside and fight fire with fire. Be kind and nice to her in person and let your lawyer be the bad guy. The whole time you simply keep repeating, �I don�t wish to do this and would like to save our marriage.�

I�m a former Air Force pilot. The idea of airpower is that you don�t use it incrementally. You don�t bomb one building and then ask, �Have you had enough? If you don�t make peace or comply, we will drop another one.�

The idea is that you bomb the living crap out of everything. You do it all at once and non-stop. The diplomats engage in �This will stop if you make peace and comply.�

THAT is when airpower works.

In this case, your lawyer is the attacker and you are the diplomat. Your lawyer comes out with legal guns blazing while you are the nice guy the whole time, simply saying that you don�t want the D and want to save your marriage.

But set hope aside. You�re at war now. You risk losing everything by sitting around and being in denial and hoping she suddenly feels different.

New twist. I have found that she has been prescribed over 2500 vicodin this year and that rate of prescription goes back to 2008. Anyone know anything about prescription pain killer addiction?

What's the status of the legal things? Have you gotten a lawyer or are you still just dealing with hope?

You need to get this info to your lawyer.

Understand that she isn't going to come back to you at all by you playing nice and not following a plan.

You can Plan A and let your lawyer be the hammer, but you must get one to defend your rights.

I have an attorney. We have responded to her filing. We have a hearing in December. My attorney knows about this info. I need to do what's right here and try to get her into a treatment center asap.

Found another cell phone. Again. Logged in on line and see message history of messages to and from OM. I don't have the strength to fight this again.

You can suggest that to her, but it needs to be her decision, doesn't it?
If you WW is an addict she is a danger to your children. Why has this not be legally addressed?

My attorney has the info.

Perhaps consider a Emergency Motion for temporary custody or something BEFORE the December date.

Couple reasons...

Since she filed....in December, at the hearing...SHE will get to go first and present her case for custody. Often, a good attorney will "win" the case before you even get a chance to give your side of the case. You end up on the defensive and trying to overcome and insurmountable hill of lies.

If you file an emergency motion...even if you lose...you'll be going first (since you filed the motion) and at least present your strongest claim (that she's a prescription drug addict) prior to the December hearing.

First court impressions are very important. File the Emergency Motion but do it "lovingly"...asking the court to give you temporary custody of the kids and ordering her into treatment. Even ask for a delay of the December hearing such that your wife can get her act together before any final decisions are made.

Fighting legally for your family IS fighting for your marriage. She now appears to have TWO addictions to quit prior to recovery (OM and Vicodin). She needs rock bottom so maybe a judge can help deliver that message. It's worth a shot (even if you lose the motion).

BTW...my wife tried some different AD's to beat her depression pre-affair. However, since we recovered she hasn't been depressed at all and doesn't need or take anything. MB literally cured her depression...so achieving a happy recovered prescription free marriage is still a possibility.

Mr. Wondering

Ditto. My wife weaned herself off prescription ADs with her doctor's advice, and my attendant care to her needs has radically reduced the symptoms of her depression. We aren't always upbeat -- who is? -- but she doesn't feel a need to medicate her depression away anymore.

My attorney is available again next week and I will talk to her about the emergency motion. Things are getting worse at home. She twists everything I say into some kind of an attack. I haven't been able to find any vicodin in the last week or so but last week Wednesday/Thursday she drank 5 bottles of wine and 1/2 bottle of Vodka. I don't see her drinking this week however. I haven't seen the person a married for so long I question if she can still be found - even if she gets off the drugs.

I agree with you about the 2 addictions. I have a plan for the drugs but I feel stuck with the A. I believe she has agreed with OM not to be in contact with each other until the D is final - she has disabled or turned off the other phone. I feel that I have lost my marriage and the only option I have left is to try to get her help for the addiction and then move on with the divorce.

She asked me if I'd be willing to go to a joint counsellong session with her. I said I would so she set it up. I am expecting to get attacked for my role in exposure to her friends and our kids. My question is this... How do I rationalize exposure to a (F?)WW and a counselor? I'm guessing she is going to expect an apology and the counselor won't understand the reason for exposure. I don't feel that I should apologize but I can see how/why she may expect one...or at least an explanation.

Ok. I could use some advice here. I haven't posted for a while so let me get you up to date.

Drugs: I had a discussion with her about her use of prescription drugs. Calmly stated that I was concerned about her health and the kids deserve to have a mom who was not at risk of liver failure, etc. She said she didn't have a problem, that she was taking the vicodin under her doctors supervision and everything was under control. She then went into a different room and called her attorney to let him know that I was being verbally abusive and intimidating her. We haven't discussed it since. I plan to talk to her again but only with a third party present. I have discussed legal options and I really don't have any.

A & D: I have no proof the A is over or still on going. I don't think there can be any regular contact or I would have found evidence of it. She has asked me to go to a joint counseling session with a new counselor (not her or my IC). I have agreed to it and plan to work MB principals into those sessions. I don't want to say no because then I would be the person who "isn't willing to work on our marriage." She says things like "I can't go through with the D because it goes against God's will." I think at some level she honestly believes that. However, she has not stopped the D proceedings. We have our first court date in January. She has told a friend of hers that if the counseling sessions go well she will continue to go them even after the court date and as the D proceeds.

Plan A/B: I am stuck doing my best to plan A because I don't know how to plan B with 5 kids. I won't leave the house and neither will she.

Here is my concern/question. Am I out of line to expect her to make a choice between working on our marriage or D? I don't know how we can make any progress through counseling while a D is happening at the same time. I want to ask her to choose one or the other but don't know if that is the right thing nor do I know how to state that position without it sounding like an ultimatum. Also, the counseling sessions could be an opportunity to bring up the drug issue again in a safer environment. Please help.

You have a very serious situation in which personally, I wouldn't make a move without legal advice, including going to counseling sessions at your wife's request.

Here's the bottom line right now to me:

1. Your wife is addicted to Vicodin
2. Your wife is drinking excessively at least at times while taking Vicodin
3. Your wife is unpredictable
4. You have 5 children being exposed to a volatile and unstable
home life with their mother modeling very emotionallly unstable behavior

Frankly, I'd think long and hard about how far you can really get while your wife is chemically addicted and probably still involved with OM.

Why have you not hired a PI? What is your attorney telling you? At some point something has to change big time to move this situation out of perpetual limbo for your children's sake.

I would think your wife's vicodin use, drinking, affair, would have some bearing on your ability to get custody of your children. Perhaps the only way to move this limbo is to file for divorce and custody and let your wife feel the full weight of her choices.

How do I find a PI? I google but what I find looks a little shady. Yellow pages? I guess haven't tried that...

She has already filed for divorce which is why I am confused about going to counseling session. I counter filed and asked for 50/50 custody unless her mental state does not allow custody, in which case I want full custody.

Agreed but I feel like I am stuck. I don't have strong legal options bc the vicodin is being prescribed by a doctor. I have notes about the alcohol but that will be my word against hers.

Agree 100% on points 3&4

Would it be possible to find documentation of her buying the booze? Sales receipts, credit card charges, etc? If she gets very drunk, is there any way that you could video tape her inebriated behavior? (check with the lawyer about that one; if it is not illegal, it could be a powerful tool in custody matters.)

I've got cc charges for a lot of it. She doesnt appear to got noticeably drunk. If u didn't know her and could sense the changes in her mood you wouldn't know she was drinking, etc. I know because I see it disappear. She doesn't hide it. She hides her vicodin.

Consult the doctor giving her the vicodin. Im sure she is lying to him to get it. I expect he will second guess giving a prescription to an alcoholic (a short read of a couple posts and my armchair I deem your WW an alcohoolic). Perscription drug abuse is a tough one because it is more justifiable. My SIL is a walking pharmacy, but claims that it is okay and not an addiction because she is prescribed it(she was previously a heavy illegal drug user).