How was your break? You feelin better? Sure hope so.

Hiya constant

I did not sleep well last night but it is good to be back at work taking the focus off Dad/ Husband.

I am suppose to be meeting H tonight but do not think it is a good idea. I asked him to meet with me before the funeral and now do not think this is a good idea. I don't feel as strong when I met him last week.

I will probably just tell him that I am feeling too tired to meet up and make his own way to the funeral, or I could just be honest and let him know that him dipping in and out is not helping and unless he wants to recommit to the M he should leave me alone.

Thanks for your support.

@Harmony -

Are you in Plan A or Plan B?

Remember no decisions while you are going through this traumatic event. Tell him the truth. You don't feel like meeting with him right at this moment. You are allowed to change your mind.

Once again, are you in Plan A or Plan B?

I agree Harmony, always be honest about whatever you are feeling. It's okay it's a difficult situation..........making decisions is a tough thing to do, all we have is our gut to listen to............it has never steered me wrong................
jessi

I agree also Harmony. You don't have to have a reason but the fact that you two are in such an unstable place is as good as a reason not to meet him.

This is not a time where you need anymore drama, and he isn't to stable himself yet. How could you lean on him? Can he be strong for you?

The only exeption is if you had your brother, sister, or another personal friend there too, to discuss attending the funeral together. The personal relationship between your H and you has to be put on the back burner, and the rest of the family is the priority. You allready know that I know.

If being around H right now is to much emotionally, then don't chance more suffering for either of you.

Glad your back to work and feeling better.

When you say, "dipping in and out", I wonder what that means to you. He isn't really rejoining the marriage when he sees you, so hes not really "in" so to speak. I imagine there is a uncomfortable tension between you when your together right? Or does he get romantic and mushy with you whenever he sees you, or try to sleep with you?

I am imagining some behavior of respect and care towards each other in the circumstance of your fathers passing. If he could act in a sensitive way towards you about that, and you could both leave the marriage and personal issues behind when you were together, I think you could support each other.

But Harmony, if you both can't be around each other without the pain and confusion of your marriage taking over your minds, maybe staying away from each other is the best thing.

After the funeral is over, and you don't have such a raw place to come from in your emotions, maybe you should go into plan B dark again with H. The yo-yo and rollercoaster of hopes and dreams and emotions and confusion has got to stop for awhile untill you get some perspective on yourself.

The same goes for WH, and you both would benifet from some peace and solitude, if you will leave each other alone. Do you realize this is dragging out the problem? Niether of you has really been alone and stable enough without distractions to contemplate life without each other. Somehow one or both of you demands to see each other, and get a relationship fix for the moment, and then go back to whatever thoughts and activities that are full of confusion and desparation. You want him to change now, or hit the road, and he sees other women?

Please stop and see this, you won't really cut him loose to live his own bullcrap life with the OW he keeps, and let him come back so he can see you and find more bullcrap reasons he can do that.

He is still selfish and wallowing in self-pity. Not leaving you alone either or trying to work on the marriage with any tools that we ALL must use. Dr H didn't invent love, or marriage, but he knows it better than most and how it works. Take advantage of his fine teaching and make a plan soon.

I guess what I was asking, when you say dipping in and out, was his just seeing you occasionally qualify as being "in" the marraige for you?

I didn't think it did, and I hope he doesn't get that message, that just being with you is all that you need. That kind of message is what caused the problems before right? He got away with IB and didn't care about your dreams of children and romance?

Just checking Harmony, did you understand what I meant? I am trying to help you define your boundaries in this relationship and reminding you of the ones you need to protect. Just showing up at night and sleeping in the same bed does not alone a marriage make. Stop letting him get his "my poor marriage" fix and let him go into withdrawl from you. There he, and you, will learn to respect each other, and expect better of yourselves too.

I hope in time you will both demand it from each other, as you trust each of you has the others back, because you stand for the same thing, a loving marraige.

Hold yourself up Harmony, this is a tough time I know, but you will get thru it I promise, we all see it you know. We have enough respect for you to drum in the truth as we see it. No getting off the hook here.

Peace to you.

Hello Constant

Thanks for your posts.

I am feeling much calmer, I had a really difficult weekend and I have learnt that when I am upset about something, it can sometimes transfer to anger directed at someone else and I think I felt very angry with H over the weekend, due to my father.

Anyway, I am feeling x100 times better.

H called last night to see how I was doing and if I was ok. He seems genuinly concerned and is adamant about being at the funeral. I have to say based on his past performance, I am quite surprised, it must be quite daunting for him facing all my family at once in our current situation. Maybe he is actually growing up himself? He seems to be definetly defogging. Apparantly we were suppose to be meeting Tuesday night not Monday. Unpromted, he sent someone round at the weekend to send them round to sort out the garden for me. I asked him how his weekend was, he answered it was OK, a bit flat.

I am communicating with him so much better, like I don't have anything to lose, not from a place of fear like before. I am not scared of the relationship ending as I know I will be OK. I survived 6 weeks not contacting him, and only broke it due to my fathers death. It feels good. Also, he actually LISTENS and takes it onboard. I also communicate with him in a 'man appropriate way', I guess you know what I mean by that? You know not like I was before a bull in a china shop, I speak calmly, clearly, without anger, taking his view onboard and without fear.

I told him that the estate agent came round to get the house price reduced. He was quite dismissive when I told him that, as reducing the house price would mean we are both serious about splitting up(it is on at a silly non sellable price at the moment), I said to H you can't hide from the situation H, we both have to face it and deal with it. I told him that I was not happy with leaving the house sat on the market doing anything and we both need to agree a plan. He said OK I understand but please Harmony would you please listen to me for a change? (This is a big thing for him, me listening to him as when I had the affair and told him I was leaving, he said to me don't leave Harmony, just stay at home and dont do anything rash, which I ignored). H said now is not the time for these kind of discussions, lets get Christmas out the way and then in the NY we can sit down and both talk without emotions running so high about your father. I agreed that this seems sensible. Now was not the time to have discussions. Then he added what I will do is call the estate agents tomorrow and have it taken off the market, does that sound OK? I agreed.

I came off the call feeling quite happy and peaceful. I will go see him tonight and enjoy the evening together, no relationship talk, just some good food and good company. Then he can accompany me to the funeral, after that I will get on enjoy my Christmas and NY to the max, spending time with friends and family and then we can sit down in the NY and have a proper talk, where I can say all the things JL suggested.

I can tell him how I truly feel, that I love him, that the pain and suffering that he has put me through and he has shown no remorse, that I need someone who will stand by my side and support and care for me. Then I can make my decision.

You can not force "return thinking" onto a WW.
He will NOT in WW fog, give you the words, actions and remorse you are looking for.

If in the future, he decides to rejoin you as a quality spouse the change has to come from within him.

{{Harmony}}

I really feel for you. I hope you have a reflectful/peaceful week of remembering how great your father really was.

Harmony,
I think the conversation with your husband was a good one, he is right no decision of that magnitude should be made while you are going through the loss of your father.........
Give yourself a little time to decompress from all the emotional turmoil you are feeling now...........
The time right now is for family support and remembering a great man in your life....
After that just have some fun with family and friends........Bring in the New Year with a new look on life, Harmony's peaceful life with honesty and bravery.........
Hell I will even toast that myself on New Year's Eve for you from this side of the pond..............
Take care for now..............jessi

So, Harmony...

Have you given any thought to the impossible task you have set before WH?

You said if he wasn't there for you, you may resent him forever... then you say you are trying to not allow him to be there...

So is your plan resentment?

Hello MB Friends,

Back with an update.

I went out with H on Tuesday night, we had dinner, then went for a drink. He ended up coming back and staying the night. We had SF it was VERY passionate, it felt more passionate that we have ever had. During the evening we were both relaxed, and chatted throughout the evening. I needed that intimacy from him.

The funeral was yesterday and a very tough day. I coped well, and supported my 2 olders sisters. My friends and family commented to my H how strong I had been and even he said I had been amazing. My theory was that I needed to be able to deal with this as if something truly tragic happens in life (loss of a child or spouse) that I needed at least to be able to deal with this to a point. It was tough and almost surreal, like I was having a bad dream. I definetly still hear my father and feel a part of him within me. I would like to thank everyone here at MB, for supporting me through this growth process of learning to cope and not crumble. I put together the speech from me, my 2 sisters and 1 bro, and it was really good. I would like to post it here as some of the messages I got from my Dad were the same as I got from this place, would that be disrespectful?

H accompanied me to the funeral, and was very supportive. I believe he did it because he really does care, I hope I am not wrong. On the way back home I suggested stopping for a drink, which he agreed to. When he took me back home and fixed a few things round the house, he gave me a kiss on the lips and left. I sent him a text message today, thanking him for his support and he responded by saying it was a pleasure and that I had been amazing with a couple of kisses on his texts.

Sooooooooooo......

I could do with some of the vets insight into what may be going on. I have summarised below some of the points of 'interest' that we discussed over the last few days.

** We have got on well this week no LB's but no talk of reconciliation.
** H talked about activites that he had taken up such as running and snowboarding. I didn't understand this , as I had always tried to get him involved in these activities and he never showed as much interest. Can anyone explain why he is doing that?
** H mentioned about really liking a certain town and mentioning that he would like to live there, I had always talked to him in the rship about living in this town and he never showed an interest then.
**H talked about wanting to buy and renovate a ski chalet in the alps, AGAIN, this was one of my dreams!!
** H keeps telling me about things he is doing with family and friends e.g no other women.
** He constantly mentioned that he was living at mom and dads and that it really was not great and they bickered all the time.
** H really opened upto me last night after the funeral, and I saw a real vulnerable side to him. I was telling H about my college course and how I was enjoying it, and he mentioned that he would like to do something similiar. He then said that he was always a failure, never passed his exams, failed his art course, failed his car test numerous times. H said that he didn't want my sympathy but that he generally failed at things. I felt quite upset about this and stressed to him that he was not a failure and this all happened when he was a lot younger and maybe he did not have the motivation back then to succeed at various exams. Then pointed out all of his achievements.
** He bought up past 'issues' in the r'ship such as his mother. For example, how his mother and her other DIL had a big fall out and whether I could now see his mothers point of view. I said that I think the other DIL was being confrontational over something minor but due the way his mother tended to be with her that the DIL was trying to make a point. He actually agreed with me.

I do have mixed feelings myself over reconciling with him. I just can't help it. I love him so, but it does concern me that he has shown no remorse over his affairs, is always bringing up his mother (my r'ship with her is obviously a real LB for him). I also notice more how I made all the attempts in the r'ship before the affair 'to fill in all the gaps' for example, holiday plans, SF, conversation, suggestion for recreation ideas...Maybe I need to put this behind me for now, any thoughts?

So now I will leave him be and see if he initiates contact, he knows how I feel. I really do think that there is some outside strong influnece over him reconciling with me, and my gut instinct is its his mother and brother.

In terms of my own personal progress, I miss him very much, and am dreading Christmas without him. I feel tired of making the effort to reconcile with him, and have shown him this week a strong, confident and happy side. I have just enjoyed his company.

Any insight on Hubbie and how I proceed would be welcome.

You know you are not doing anything MB, right?

He has not apologised, not repented for the A's.

Holidays are really rough, it is hard to be alone.
You need an STD test.

Why are you talking to him if he has not met ANY of your conditions?

Hiya Barbie

I guess sometimes I get confused sometimes, as I was the one who created this mess. I suppose I wanted H to see that he could enjoy my company without any r'ship talk. I suppose I am confused as to what is the best strategy to follw and get confused about the different lines of advice. Some people say I should sit down and talk with him, then others say Plan B.

My main objective is for H to be remorseful for the way he has treated me, for his 4 affairs, otherwise it is never going to work us getting back together on the premise on that it was only me who has messed up.

Boy how I wish I could be strong and say, I love you H, but unless you can show remorse for your actions and commit strongly to the M, then NC. I guess I feel hindered by my A to instigate this.

OK, I need to sort out a plan for how I proceed. Please help.

I am sorry but:

This is not anywhere near reconcilliation. He is blocked from moving back in and having a real marriage because he is with another woman.

how do you know he is with another woman? I feel sick.

How do you know he is not with another woman? Have you had him followed by a PI yet? Have you made an appointment for a professional hook him up to a polygraph?

You have seen him with several women in the last few months. Something is stopping him from coming back remorseful. Could easily be another woman or he wants to continue dating. Who knows...you wont even ask him about it, get him followed to see if he is lying or get a (cant remember the name where they hook him up to wires and ask him questions to get at the truth) You know he had at least 4 affairs right? I could be wrong. You have been married for three years and he had 4-6 affairs...or something.


You really have not taken proper steps to KNOW. Did you use condoms in case he has a disease and so you wont get pregnant????

If it were me, I would not try and guess who or what is blocking him from returning to the marriage. I would find out what is REALLY going on!!!! By having him followed and asking him to take a polygraph.

Please do not be desperate enough to be with "any" man that you will deny there is a problem or that he could be cheating. Dont be like your friends. FIND OUT THE TRUTH!

Do you know what I have no reason to believe him. He has cheated on me for the past 8 months, so why would he stop now? You are so right.