Everyone IS entitled to their opinions. This is the BEAUTY of a forum. You get differing POVs and get to figure out what is best for you.

ITA with Clark about the whole point of Plan A. There WOULD be an ACTIVE affair and a cake-eating spouse. Of course there is fog-babble. That is because SHE IS IN THE FOG. You need to be the lighthouse.

I also say that there needs to be some more stick of Plan A for it to be MORE effective. I DON'T think that there needs to be MORE detaching. That sounds A LOT like the 180 and that IS NOT MB.

Total, if you are really wondering what to do and can't afford the money to call the Harleys yourself, you could call the radio show and talk to DrH HIMSELF.

I dunno if you have read these, but I think that you could read them all again.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2370240&page=2 Read MArk's stuff about plan A and Plan B on the newly betrayed thread.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...t&Number=2296184&nt=2&page=1

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1875175&page=1

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...t&Number=1926030&nt=5&page=1

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1836779#Post1836779

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2279149&page=1

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2276398#Post2276398

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1640788&page=1

Lighthouse thread,

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...t&Number=1117130&nt=9&page=1

I am going to say that plan B DURING th holidays might be the best thing for u now mark. I think u did a great plan a and waiting is not going to make it better. U can still do plan b during the holidays that will not be hard your wife needs to see how its going to be like losing u.

So I am all for u to be in plan b and file for a divorce.

Wow- lots of input, and all is appreciated. I am going to admit right now that the weekend was tough. After discussion with WS on Friday night, I went totally dark. No contact at all on Saturday. She did show up for church Sunday and sat with the family. We had a nice conversation after the service. I told her I will be as good to you as you will let me be, but it is just too painful for me knowing that you are continuing contact with OM. She says I know, it is painful for me too. So, she is definitely cake-eating, and extremely conflicted about it.

Something interesting happened Sunday afternoon. My mother has been inviting WS for dinner every Sunday, and she has always declined since moving out. Well, yesterday, she accepted. She came over for dinner at my parents house, and that went really well. My parents are very caring, and my WS is truly a part of the family.

Well, the roller coaster hit bottom for me Sunday night. I guess having her there at my parents and everything going so well was just too much. I did have a very emotional phone conversation with her Sunday night. She is in extreme emotional turmoil right now.

One other interesting development- two of her married, church friends came over to visit her last night. (One of these is a FWS, and both have been extremely supportive.) She has been avoiding these two like the plague since moving out, because they don't tell her what she wants to hear. I was pleasantly surprised that she accepted their visit, and they were over there for a couple of hours. I'll be interested to hear from them how that went.

Well, I'm going to follow some of your advice. I am going to try to continue Plan A for a bit longer. I am also going to go dark though, let her come to me. We'll see how it goes. I know that Plan B is necessarily coming soon.

Stayed dark all day Monday, until DD18 ended up in the ER with kidney stones. Dark so far today, except for a brief phone conversation about meds for DD18. Always the dutiful dad, I am taking care of it. This is another example of something WS has given up with her new job. Kids are out of school this week, and normally she would be at home with them, but now she has to work.

"except for a brief phone conversation about meds for DD18."

Why pick up the phone? Hering her voice and hers yours breaks NC.
DD 18, I don't know any 18 yo that can't handle meds on her own.

Telling you to tell DD to take a pill four times a day is not an emergency. So no need to break NC.

WW can text, email, send note with DD. WW does not have get you on the phone.

TheRoad- I am not in Plan B, I am in Plan A. I am just backing off a bit and letting WS come to me, then being very good to her. DD18 has a rather serious kidney disease, so it's not quite as simple as you describe. Plan A, Plan B or Plan D, I will always take care of my children. Interacting with WS in this way is meeting an important EN, which is exactly what I am trying to accomplish in Plan A. Once I go to Plan B, I know I will have to handle this differently, but I'm not there yet. Thanks for your observations.

No, it IS as simple as TheRoad advises. You reach out to WS in Plan A, you DON'T in Plan B. You're in Plan A? Okay - you don't 'go dark' and you have communication. In Plan B that changes. NO direct communication.
You are doing a watered down Plan B. This will not serve you.

Once again, I will say this: you are helping her pave her way to independence. WHY?

Okay, perhaps "dark" is not the right word. I am in no way not in contact with WS. I am simply not taking the initiative in communicating with her. What I have found in the past few weeks is that the times that I have reached out to her less, she has been noticeably shaken. Letting her come to me is part of me not being in "Plan Doormat". I am still trying to meet her EN's, one of which is family commitment. I am still trying to avoid LB's with her, while trying to apply more of the stick and less of the carrot. I am not doing a watered down Plan B. I am not avoiding contact with her, simply not initiating it as much.

Much pressure is coming her way during the holidays, from various family members, all of which have been exposed to. She is refusing to attend the family festivities at my parents, due to my sister's harsh treatment of her. She has also asked that I not attend at her family's events, because it makes her "uncomfortable". Both of our extended families are upset about this, and have been quite vocal about it. DD11 has let her know that she does not want to go to grandma's with mom because "I don't want dad to be alone on Christmas."

I am sure you have gotten plenty of answers from others already but I feel you I am not far ahead of where you find yourself. I found out about a 9 month affair about 6 months ago. The only thing I can say for certain is that time will pass and your days will get better. I was in exactly the same situation and exposure is important no matter what anyone tells you. I told my WW's parents, contacted the OM family, and Told my wife's friends. Honestly maybe I should have done more. She has asked me know to stop telling people. But at this point I do feel the A is over. She has shown true remorse and true frustration. I know everyone says that the WS should approach the BS with dignity and respect at all costs. But again whatever the reason for the A it is really due to emotional needs not being met. Your WS is no different, She is going to feel sadness and loss about the OM just as you feel about losing her, and this will cause arguments. I would love to hear from a BS who felt like their WS was perfectly understanding in all ways shapes and forms. An A is hard for all, and many reasons. My best to you, and by all means do your best to focus on YOU! first. Kids to of course!!!

Milty, thanks for your kind words. I am sorry that you are in this situation, but glad that the A is over. Unfortunately, that is not the case with me. I agree with you completely about exposure- it is the only thing that has made any difference at all. Since WS has reinitiated contact, I am now in the process of exposing all over again. Hang in there.

Well, I re-exposed (about continued contact with OM) to WS' parents last night. I had a one-hour conversation with MIL. She was extremely unhappy. She actually asked me about it before I had a chance to tell her. She said she has sensed it for the last week or two. She is going to confront WS about it. MIL is not one to mince words, so that will be a very unpleasant conversation for WS. Applying the stick- "let the consequences fall squarely upon the shoulders of the guilty."

ALl the best TD. Keep exposing, you're right to do it. I only wish I had found out about it in September

Thanks Reynolds, and good luck to you as well. I only wish that OM had a GF, as yours does. He was at one point trying to reconcile with his ex-wife, dangling WS in front of her, but that didn't work out. I just don't have any leverage with him at all, no wife, no girlfriend, no family, no morals. I just don't know what it will take to snap WS out of the fog. Original exposure really did a number on her, so we'll see what this next round does.

Can you do some research and find anyone that is important to this guy? GF told me in my case OM does not care for his family, but his facebook friends for instance were critical to him - his whole sense of self worth.

This guy have coworkers, married golf buddies, school friends?

Love to see you get a hook into him.

Jack-leg carpenter, drunk, serial adulterer. Doesn't care about anything. My best hope is that he will get tired of meeting all of WS' EN's, especially financial, and that he will get tired of her grown-up responsibilities (job, kids, etc.) getting in the way of the A. Previous to now, WS had been a SAHM, or worked for me part-time, meaning she had all the time in the world to do whatever she wanted. Now that she has moved out, she has a f/t job, no money, and wants to see the kids whenever she can. This combination of factors is putting a real crimp in the A.

Hope is not a Plan, td. I'll bet you can dig someone up who can put pressure on this loser.

Even this POS had a mother. What is his trade? I never heard of that. Does that mean he is freelance? Can you expose to his employer(s)? My dad worked in construction, and he sure as he*l wouldn't hire a guy doing that. Is he on facebook or is your wife? Great tool. I found my target halfway across the globe in five minutes. If your wife is on, check for surnames that match your OM in your wifes friend list. Have your done an exhaustive internet search on him? Probably has a record or something you can use as leverage with MIL. One thing her daughter is running around, but what if hes a convict? You will double her motivation. Being in the states would be a real advantage for you with the internet search, I couldn't use that. Have you talked to his ex wife in person? If hes such a treat she would likely help you find people - tell her you've got kids etc.

Sorry if you did this already and I am being redundant. I just REALLY want you to punch through this guys armour. Hes got to have a weakness, find it and exploit it. The way I see it, he does not love your wife, and there has got to be something he loves more. Find it, and apply the same principle. If he keeps your wife he loses xxx.

I really hope this kickstarts your thoughts on a lever on this guy.

Did you talk to the Hartley's? I was impressed, been to two counsellors that could not match what he gave me in a million years.

What Up?

Reynolds,

Already did everything you suggested, except talk with the Harley's. Planning on doing that after the holidays. Budget is tight right now.