POJA is the quickest way to fill up each other's love banks.

Let me tell you something Daisy, I was the BS. So you don't need to educate me on how a BS should feel or needs to be treated. If I had waited around to feel pampered by my WS, I would be divorced. My WS did not end her A upon discovery. I had to endure several more months of he11. I know all too well the pain a BS goes through. However, that does not make Dr. Harley's concepts any less valid. I'm sorry that you are still bitter about your WS's betrayal, but let me guarantee you, you haven't had to endure anything worse than any of us BSs here. If we can stomach living with a actively wayward spouse, then I'm sure she can stomach living with a WS who has ended their affair. Let's not act like you are the only person that was burned on this board.

Yes,...HHH,....VERY bad day. The MB program is great,...don't get me wrong, but in the initial phases of the recovery, I just hate hearing how BS are supposed to give to the WS. Granted, the state of the marriage is one thing. But, dealing with the healing and the recovery because of what THEY did is completely different. And,..NO WAY is it FAIR! POJA, or no POJA. It never will be. MAKES ME SICK! They get to waltz around getting their kicks outside of the marriage at OUR expense,...feeling sorry for themselves,....asking us to pamper them, so our marriage can get right again....so they can like us better than the affair partner they cheated on us with (Plan A). Makes me sick. Sick.

I apologize, seriously. I just felt this needed to heard, here. You feel it,...I know you do. And, I felt the need to counter all of the righteous "you have to play nice according to the MB way" lingo you're getting on this thread.

I have no doubt your WS is remorseful,...he sounds it, anyway. He sounds a lot like mine,...unfortunately,..which, I think gets me where it hurts. But, no remorse will being back your marriage. It died,...he killed it. Like the rest of us,...it can't be brought back from the dead,...it has to be replanted.

My recent thoughts have been this....the marriage is like a tree. You plant it,...it grows roots and limbs,...beautiful flowers, even. But, eventually, it starts to feel neglected,...not treated with care. Instead of watering it, like they should, one of the partners decides to start cutting limbs OFF (betrayal, lies, sex with another -- a limb for each time they do). THOSE LIMBS WON'T GROW BACK! However, there's still roots and a good trunk,...but it's hideous! To make things beautiful again,....you have to plant new ones beside the old one,...and hope that they will grow intermingled with the old trunk to appear like its the same tree. Beneath, however,...is the old, tattered trunk still,...or stump, in some cases.

Thank you Daisy for putting us righteous BSs in our place for telling a fellow BS the best way to save their marriage according to Dr. Harley's principles on Dr. Harley's message board. We don't have any room to talk. It's not like we've walked a mile in her shoes.

**************EDIT****************

I agree with HHH, let us know what's going on on your thread! ((daisy))

A reminder to posters to stick to Marriage Builders principles if you are going to post to newcomers. Posters come here to learn Marriage Builders. If you can help them with that, please do. Otherwise kindly refrain from posting.

Please familiarize yourself with our board policy in the Accouncement section. Marriage Builders Policy on other programs

Thank you.

Daisy, you're kidding us, right? Tell me where you've seen "you have to play nice according to the MB way" lingo you're referencing.

I'm waiting.

Fine. I'm gone....or, at least, soon will be. Not a problem.

Daisy,

What YOU hate hearing and what makes YOU sick should not be expressed on a thread started by someone whose marriage is in crisis and who has come here seeking MB advice. Please start a new thread if you wish to express your feelings of sickness about Dr Harley's advice.

You are turning this thread into "the ranting of Dr Daisy". I respectfully point out that you do not have Dr Harley's experience with saving marriages after infidelity, and this is not your site on which you may expound your theories.

Dr Harley provides this forum for participants to get help with using the MB programme. It is disruptive and counter-productive for you to invade a thread - especially that of a new poster who is struggling after her H's affair - and tell her that people here are being "righteous" (which is meant as an insult to them) and that Dr Harley's advice should be rejected because it makes YOU sick.

If you can't help this poster with MB advice because you object to it, then stay off the thread! There may be other threads that you can help on, so do some good on those. Do not insult the host of this site with your rants!

...

Those of us who have saved our marriages following MB wish you well.

Hi all,

I just want to say that I respect all sides of the argument on this. If anything, the debate alone has helped me. Daisy made me feel like she knew where I was coming from, and at the same time the rest of you made it clear what the tried and true MB wisdom is. I know that all of you are caring and want to help.

I appreciate it all. Also, I'm a big girl, and I don't mind it if you have additional comments Daisy...

Other than the keep him or kick him out debate, there was a lot of good advice and just plain listening that is sooooooo nice and I really appreciate those of you out there who just tell me you know what I'm going through, and offer any advice on how to get by day to day.

I don't know why it's good to "mourn with those that mourn" but it is... although I wish there wasn't anyone else who knew this pain.

As for answering questions on what I've been reading... basically everything on the site, Basic Concepts, Q & A, Articles, taken the questionnaires, etc. Surviving the Affair just arrived today and I'm up to chapter 4. Prior to finding MB, our counselor recommended After the Affair which I have completed. After that, I read Proper Care and Feeding of Marriage until it became too much, and wasn't really Affair related (I just happened to have had it from before).

What else... to tell you where I'm at, just still plain angry and disgusted, and I despise him. I cry in the cereal aisle, and in the car on the way to pick up my daughters, and every room in my house.

Just trying to function, which has been "easier" on my own, I admit. Perhaps having him gone the last 3 weeks makes it seem alright to have him gone permanently... (thus the separation --> divorce fears).

But things are about to change... we'll see what's next.

(((seriously))),

I understand the dark days; its very obvious the roller coaster is going full speed for you right now. I know that we all don't want you to stop venting.

But please don't borrow trouble. You have no idea how you will feel around SWS when he is back in the country, and I can tell you that being together CAN make the biggest deposits in your love bank which sounds totally empty right now. I would suggest some ground rules, though.

1. Affair talk only when you both agree to it (limit to short bursts).
2. No Love Busters when you are talking. He can't get angry at you for being mad but your way of responding to what he has to say can make or break your time together. It is possible to express anger without LBs. Read up on them so you know what to look out for.
3. Plan out your time together every day and I mean hours every day. Immediately post- D day, GO and I spent every evening when he got home from work talking about anything and everything. We lost alot of sleep, but our marriage benefitted. However, You have been apart for a long time and having him underfoot all day long without anything to do will drive you nuts (at least it would drive me nuts! LOL). Give him some tasks that need completing.
4. Make a list of all the things you want him to do to make you feel safe again. He needs a starting point and this will help. EPs, STD testing, a polygraph, etc. all work.


Some other things I found imperative: Counseling!!! I can't stress this enough. A pro-MB counselor is worth their weight in gold. I also recommend an accountability partner for your WS (same sex, of course!). Having another Godly man who GO could talk to about the really hard things was so comforting to me. Thankfully he had a number of men who stepped up to the plate.

Finally, avoid separation talk for a while. You need to get out of the depths of despair before you make a decision like that. At one month since D day you are still in the thick of it. It is absolutely your choice to stay in the marriage or not(SWS gave up that choice as a consequence of his actions), but you will feel so much better about yourself if you tried everything, worked hard, and then decided that it isn't going to work.

I, too, wish folks could learn that their marriages need fixing before it comes to this, but apparently humans learn the hard way. It saddens me every time there is a new poster.

I can tell you that what TWC is talking about here is truth.

Somehow, FWW and I implemented this naturally well before I found MB.

We spent quite a few nights laying in bed telling each other our life stories... even though we knew them, and we have been together since we were 17.

She trickle-truthed me through the first 5 months of recovery, so that played it's part.

Made it on my own up until the end of August, when I just couldn't get past anger and resentment. My search led me here.

You are in good hands.

I understand your desire for space to breathe, think, move... but understand that it's really not the most effective, nor the fastest way to recover.

Separation can and will lengthen the process.

Thats so cool tully

seriously, most BS's know what you're feeling. The conflicting emotions are tough. My only suggestion to you is to consider 'not' separating, and I say that because it's easier to work on recovery when you're together. It's easier to decide IF you want to work on recovery when you're together. Your LB is pretty empty - it's difficult to get that filled when the person who needs to fill it isn't around. I think his presence in that regard would help you.

You have a lot going for your M; your previously clean marital history, your length of time together, the fact that you have children, and your WH's apparent remorse.

Try to understand the place from which posters are coming when they post to you. A previous poster who suggested that you not allow your WH to come home is doing the same thing in her own sitch. They are close to D. They did not follow MB in trying to recover their M. I'm not saying that's good or bad for them - not every marriage is salvageable. But read the personal threads of the people who post to you when it seems at odds with MB. That may help you to understand where they are coming from and to decide how much weight you want to put on those posts.

Trust_Will_Come gave you a very good post to read. I second it and suggest you read it again. My sitch was similar, and I responded in a similar way. My M is recovered, and my FWH and I have a stronger and more intimate M today because we followed (and continue to follow) MB principles.

I wouldn't wish my enemy to have to go through this. I know how you are feeling. If I could have cut off a foot and avoided this in my life, I would have. We all know what you're feeling.

You currently are considering separation, and most of us who have been where you are and have come out on the other side are couseling you differently. Pay attention to that, even if it feels at odds with what you think you should do at this point.

seriously, TWC and the others gave you great advice. Now would be a terrible time to separate. Separation only increases the chances of divorce and you may not want that option in the future. Your anger and despair will dissipate, it is temporary; but divorce is permanent. There is much hope for your marriage. All the pain and anger you feel today CAN BE replaced with a happy, romantic marriage. Many of us here have done that. That is very possible for you.

Those of us who have come out of this with great marriages are telling you not to separate, but to hang tight and ride this out. You will have much greater happiness in the end. That is what we want for you, friend!

^

Don't ask me why, because I don't know... but I asked... ASKED for separation. I didn't demand it. I asked.

FWW refused.

I don't know why I accepted.

Seriously, it's going to be tough no matter what. However - not being able to see repentance and change in action, every day, will only make it longer, and lead to further emotional separation.

Is your goal to save your M? Then I would say don't run.

seriously,

I'm copying the list of requirements that my wife (SMB)gave me prior to her agreeing to allow me to come back home.




If I had bulked on even one of these items, it would have shown my intentions were less than admirable and that I wasn't really worth the investment.

I agree that a seperation could add to an already difficult set of circumstances created by your H, but don't let that be the determining factor in your decision. Make your decision based upon his willingness to do whatever it takes to help you feel safe enough to remain in the marriage. Even if that includes a few weeks of time with him on a good friends couch while you see each other in a set of circumstances that you can control.

You have some good folks posting to you, but none of us will have to live with the decisions you are now being forced to make because of your H's adultery. The choice is yours.

Keep in mind,,, I'm an MB cheerleader when I see waywards taking the steps that your H is begining to take. He's making some good choices from what I can see..... But YOU will know by his continued actions!

Saying a prayer for you!