I understand. I have stayed off of hers after she asked me. Before, she had told me it was okay. I don't censor myself knowing that she is reading. I actually like the idea of her seeing what advice I am getting, as well as what areas people are pushing me to change.

Seriously, get your butt off this thread. Get back over to yours and don't use this forum to work with your WH. We'll talk to you over there.

No. You two need to stay off each others' threads. It works best that way. You can see why by your last post. It's distracting to what we're trying to do with you both.

Wow, I go to work for 12 hours & look at what all I miss... SWS, you have a lot of people trying to help you see this through.

Two comments:
(1) Re: your wife's thread, it's fine for you to read each others' threads. It's not fine for you to be posting on each others' threads. I will say the same thing to Seriously.
(2) Re: the phone... Didn't SusieQ & I & others tell you days ago to change it? Why are we still even having this part of the discussion? Here's what ya do:
--Get a map.
--Find a river.
--Go there.
--Drop the phone in. Listen for the <kerplunk>.
--Change the paperwork later.
It's really THAT simple. If you can't even inconvenience yourself enough to do THIS simple sequence of steps for the sake of your marriage, then you'll be wasting everyone's time.

@GO - I know, I realize that like you told me before it was MY best thinking that got me here...MY best thinking probably won't get me out.

When I read this:

I thought of this:


I'm thinking that you need to have a more complete Plan A(ction). Remember action first, thought and feelings will follow. You are responsible for protecting yourself from destroying your marriage.

What is the list of EPs that you have put in place?

Has your wife reviewed and added to these?

I have made one list of things that I will do while I am at home. Things which I needed to be doing and leading around the house that mean a lot to her, and to me....things like consistent family prayer and scripture reading. I haven't put a list of EP down on paper yet. I will formulate them on the flight home today and tomorrow (2 day trip), and have her review them. My challenge I feel is to find things that I will commit to regardless of whether she decides to stay in the marriage or not. I don't want a bunch of conditional things - I want it to be things that should be done anyway, not just things to "look good" to her.

Today I changed my number. And I will be forwarding my old number to an assistant who will just take messages and log any sms's.

Hi there,
My husband was in your shoes a year ago, when I first found out about his affair I told him in no uncertain terms that if he continued the affair that he might as well move out that day, I told him that if he loved another I would not stand in his way.
Then I went on with my life.........in the meantime he was remorseful, promised the affair was over, was home all the time, gave me all his passwords...........He started to fix things around the house, fix the supper. Watch tv and movies with me........
He did everything he could to show me he had changed and didn't want to move out and on with a different life............
This took at least 4 months before I would even consider giving him another chance, if he hadn't been so proactive with his choices to show me I know we would be finished................
You do what ever it takes for how ever long that takes......
If you truly love her and your family it won't seem like work, my husband now says I just had to wait until I calmed down enough...........not that I was screaming and yelling but I certainly didn't want to listen to his excuses..........in time I saw the man I had married and after 22 years of marriage we decided to give it another try..........it's a tough road, many tears and awful triggers for me, but as more time passes and my husband's new attitude it gets better.....
Remember every thing you do is just a stepping stone to the bigger picture.....a wonderful marriage....................good luck

That's very helpful jessi- thank you for that. My wife seems to be in a slightly different place, but I hope the principle will hold true. I'm actually afraid of overdoing it. I resigned my job, and basically can be with her 24/7 so we will have to figure out how to give her the space she needs.

I would recommend taking care of lots of things around the house. Help with cooking, cleaning, fixing things around teh house, taking care of the kids, shuttling them around, planning activities for them, etc. There are two needs that you can meet that your WW will not turn down. Those two are domestic support and family commitment. If you can help alot around the house, that will drastically reduce her stress level (which is going to be high to begin with), show her you are serious about recovery, and make love bank deposits. It is also a low pressure way to meet a need. In fact, the biggest reason she has to stay with you is the kids, so the more family commitment you show, the more she sees how the kids want dad around the house, the more she'll want to keep you around. Concentrate on keeping busy (so you don't get too needy and start bugging her) and being the best father you can possibly be. In your free time, think of ways to meet the need of conversation. Really start delving into your BW's interests so that you can have an intelligent conversation on the subject. Don't put too much pressure on conversation, but be ready if she is willing to talk about something.

Also, focus on eliminating love busters. Even if she doesn't feel like filling out the EN questionnaire, make sure she fills out the LB questionnaire. Avoid those like the plague. Right now she has a wall up and will prevent you from meeting some of her ENs. This is keep you from making too much headway in deposits. So, it is critical to keep from making any withdrawals. It is going to take a ton of work to make a deposit, so don't ruin all that hard work in an instant with a love busting withdrawal.

There may be times that she wants to talk about the affair. These times are critical. You need to keep calm. Do not defend ANY of your actions. For the love of god, do not defend the other woman. Do not sympathize with her. Shoot, call her a s1ut or a skank. That is what your BW wants to hear. Answer any question 100% honestly. Don't fudge the truth to try and "protect her." All you are doing is trying to protect yourself at the expense of her getting the truth. Even if you aren't talking about the affair, any relationship talk needs to be done calmly and without getting defensive. She is telling you how SHE feels and how things seem to her. This isn't about your intentions, so don't make defenses. Just let her you that you HEAR her and will do a better job of hearing her, taking her thoughts into consideration, and working with her in the future.

You need to start showing her how great this marriage can be going forward. It's time to snap out of the fog quickly, fight smart (not just hard) for your marriage, and win her back using MB principles. You seem to be a very successful person. Use that same confidence and determination that got you where you are professionally to get you where you need to be in your marriage.

I read your wive's post, I see her coming from a place of desparate hurt and anger. I was a victim of sexual abuse as a child. I trust my husband like no other as he understands my issues in regards to my child. She trusted you with her most private fears. You betrayed her in the same manner she was betrayed as a child. Making this realization and honoring, how deeply you have betrayed her is critical. Further, your telling the other woman in front of your betrayed spouse she was a good person did further damage. By telling her rapist, she was good person and wonderful in front of her you did further damange, it minimized what you and your filth did to her. Every word was a wound. So what if you haven't done it since, accept what you did and the full impact of it to your wife.

Honestly, when I see you talk about things your going to change if it works or not, I want to slap you. Your still not making yourself vulerable to her. Your changing conditionally, to protect yourself from her rejection. Make every change as if your marriage is going to work. Otherwise if I were your wife I would see this as damage control for your image.

I see you still coming from a place of arrogance. I will work on myself and I will "help" her work on herself. The decision to work on your marriage is up to both of you, she hasn't made that commitment. It is up to you to plan A at this point. When is the last time you wrote her a love letter, telling her how much you love her and why?

These are my personal thoughts and reading them in regards to Dr. Harley's advise. Your words would not fill my love bank, they appear non commital, just like your refusal to find a phone.

I agree. My wife and I are both here and it is best if you stay off each other's threads for a number of reasons. We were given the same advice several months ago, and it is good.

SWS, I noticed you did try to minimize the contact by OW. "She only sent me a text after"... I tried to address this with you earlier. Then you went and did it again.

It doesn't matter why she contacted you. Each time she did it, it was extremely disrespectful to your W and children, OW knows it but she doesn't care...and it's just more proof of what a lowlife she is. Avoid minimizing her behavior AT ALL COSTS. And if you don't agree that you did this, don't bother to say that either. Please.

SusieQ, You're not alone in seeing more than a few red flags here.... As well as in other areas.

W_WS, I would hold more hope for you if you were to lay down your taker and surrender. Show your white flag and willingly offer to do whatever it takes for your wife to feel safe again. Then.... maybe then she will allow you to show her what you can do to repair the marriage. She will remain a skeptic if you still want to negotiate your position.

My point exactly, Papa Bear. The taker is still in charge, still going to do it his way. His wive's need's have come in last for years. If he wants to save his marriage he better consider what he is doing.

SWS -- Agree with jmwc's latest advice, other than to qualify by suggesting you probably don't want to go pressing any forms into her face right now.

You do your questionnaires, and tell her that if she's up for it, you'd like to get her input re: LBs because you'd like to start becoming better toward her in whatever little as well as big ways you can. But if/when she wants to fill them out, she will -- it's not something you can "make" her do.

I don't completely understand where you are coming from, but I get the being vulnerable part. I would hope that changing from the inside out isn't arrogance, but rather the proper way to change, and make it permanent...my change of fortifying myself against temptation, and riding myself of pride - should not be conditional upon her staying in the marriage. If I'm willing to do those things only after she says "OK, let's stay together", then I haven't gotten the point...I need to make all those changes on my own in any case.

you are right - she hasn't made the decision to work on the marriage. I arrived home finally a few hours ago. We are cordial, but her plan is definitely to file for divorce. I brought it on myself. I'll keep doing what is recommended on MB, and see where that gets us.

Post Christmas Day update.

Greetings...we received the MB seminar stuff this week, and have started that process. Things at home are going okay. *edit* swallowed a lot of anger and pain, and allowed herself to have a good christmas morning with me and the kids. I appreciate that so much, I know it was incredibly difficult for her to do.

Every day I am seeing more and more ways where I should take EP. I have not been actively putting myself in her shoes for a long time, and while I am glad to do it,for it is helping tremendously - it is also difficult, for when i put myself in her shoes, and look at things as she sees them....I can see what little regard there is for me, I can see clearly the injustices, small and great that I've committed...

She has really been good about communicating things that are love busters for her. I am going to take the kids away for a week so that she can relax by herself without the pain of dealing with me every day, nor the stress of taking care of the kids...

seriouslyws---edit out her name.....

This is just a thought, please forgive me for even thinking it. Is it possible that she might have someone else in her life already? Sorry, again I am sure this is a dumb question but though I would throw it out there..I hope there isn't anyone for her and I wishe you well in trying to work it out. I know atleast seeing what YOU did is something a lot of people on here would give anthing to have from there WS..Good luck and have a safe New Years!