Wow! You all are so great. I am so glad to have found this forum. Not feeling so isolated and alone is a nice feeling. And you don't mind if I vent. Yay!

Also, sorry if I made it seem like Daisy was the only one who could relate to wanting to separate. I know you all have felt that feeling. My question is, am I strong enough to be around him without dying inside? Is it really safe for me emotionally?

I'm glad that you all were strong enough--an most of you through more difficult circumstances than mine. And that you are on the other side. Inspiring.

TWC, I appreciate the practical advice about the day to day. I have been quite used to my independence/aloneness for quite some time... which makes me wonder how I really feel about the M. Aha, thus the separating makes people want to D talk! Light bulb.

I'm just not sure he can win at this point.

The mood of the house has been lighter since he left, at least I feel like I can be freely happy around the girls. (I know I can choose to be happy even in his presence, but admittedly, it'll be hard). This reunion is going to get quite depressed and tense. Not loving that to look forward to.

MBliss, good advice on checking out the threads of those offering advice. Why didn't I think of that? I will definitely give weight to those who are making progress.

ML and HHH, thanks for the support and sage advice regarding sticking it out and not separating. The question: is my goal to save the M? is a good one...

A very good one. I wish I felt like saving it. At all.

Did you ever wonder, if I wasn't meeting my spouse's EN adequately when I was really doing my best and unaware of the A (or prior to the A), what hope is there now? I don't think I am capable of sex 1-2 times per day as he desires in his EN questionnaire... even before all this sh^&. And do I care to simulate/compete with all the "hot sex" he had with her?

No. That's an easy one to answer.

Lastly, HPB, that was an awesome list. SexyMamaBear sounds like a cool chick. I am going to draft a list of my own. I talked to SWS about getting a tattooed wedding band (which he doesn't want to do unless I do), and hyphenating our last names... which surprisingly he was willing to do. I'll have to see what other things are really important enough/ symbolic enough to me.

The problem is, I feel that even if he agrees to whatever I ask, it still won't really be enough to make me want to stay.

Wow, I sound like such an unforgiving person.

I just come into this feeling like it's my second time around with an A. Though it's not fair, SWS was wholly aware of that sensitivity before we got married. SWS KNEW how this would DESTROY me... and he did it anyway. That is really the bottom line for me in all this.

It is always him before me... in all things. No joint agreement ever.

Venting over. For now.

Thanks for your prayers.

SexyMamaBear is amazing! She is the light of my life. Very sad when you think that I did my damdest to destroy her by having an A....

It's been over three years in recovery and we do have a great marriage in spite of all the damage I created. Please don't think it's been easy for my wife. At times it's been very difficult for her, but today she would say it's been worth it.

I would not recommend committing to anything until you see the fruits of your WH's labors. I would take the approach of sitting back and watching for a change at the heart level. IMVHO, Short of a visible heart change, you're wasting your time with him. And I don't mean tears and feeling sorry for himself..... I mean real changes that YOU will know have occured.

It is possible for that change to happen. But it happens from the inside and shows outwardly.

Make requests and see if your H is man enough to help you feel safe again. Safe enough to stay in the marriage.
It is going to take time.

Vent away whenever you need!

In the mean time.... Read a few of Dr. Harley's books and maybe join your H for a few coaching sessions with the Harley's as well. They were great assistance for my wife and me.

BTW, You do not sound unforgiving at all!

Remember forgiveness and trust are not the same things.

You can forgive someone, but also hold them at a distance due to their inability to be trustworthy....

I often co-mingled the two terms..... Today I don't.

OKAY. TAKER alert.

Now, I didn't tell you to get off of your WSs thread to be mean. I did it to help you, your WH AND YOUR MARRIAGE.

Please, I know it will be hard, but you need to stick to YOUR thread and trust the process that the others are helping guide your WH through. You see, they are going to help him, regardless if you want to stay married to him or not. He needs to get out of his wayward mindset. They will help him through it.

What you are starting to see is the clearing of the fog. The things that your WH is saying is very typical.

Are you taking care of yourself? Eating well? Sleeping? Exercise?

Message received. You will not find me on that thread ever again.

I am so sorry. The thing you read must have been so hard. I can not even imagine.

I haven't been around that long, and I am in plan B(my WH hasn't seemed to be able to pull his head out of his azz). I usually have a hard time posting on someone's thread that is a WS. The de-fogging is HARD to watch as a BS and I can NOT imagine what it is like to be the BS IN the sitch.

I really AM rooting for you.

It's not a lifetime sentence, seriously.

Seriously,

I am currently going thru the same thing and i totally understand how you feel with the exception of you being a woman and me being a man. I could not function for the first month after I found out, I was a wreck. I guess if she was out of the house it might have been better but I wanted her to be here. I did a lot of soul searching and did some things I never wanted to have to do, spying and such. It made me feel horrible as did the things my wife said to me when it first happened, I would never wish that on anyone. There are things I wish my wife would do so that we can build a better marriage, she is reading the books and things are ok I guess. But I want to know that I did everything, I know I love my wife and family enough to at least to everything possible since I had responsibility for half the failures prior to the affair. The A is hers to own not mine, I had no choice or say in it.

I know it would have been easier to have her out but in the long run probably not so much because I still would love her and my family would be suffering. By me giving it everything I have I will be able to not feel guilty if it does fails because I know without a doubt no matter what I tried to save it regardless of what happened prior to A. I changed I tried to be the loving husband I hadn't been but should have been. I know if it fails I can be ok with it and walk away without guilt and without any love left so I will not alway wonder or wish I could have another chance. I DON'T WANT THAT, BUT IF IT HAPPENS I DID MY PART. I love my wife with all my heart, and if I had her out of the house I think I would never been able to get where I am at now, is it painful? OMG YES!
Anyways, I hope you consider letting him live there and letting him show you how sorry he is and even though you didn't ask for this A, let it possibly be something that builds to a more loving and passionate relationship and if not maybe it will help you lose the love you have for him and allow you to move on with any regret that you didn't try.

Hope this make sense, to struggle transferring my thoughts to words, good luck and I am sorry this happened.

((((( Seriously )))))

I am not willingly but I am currently walking in your shoes. The 1st month or so after I found out was hell. I was a top wound as tight as possible. My H was still active in his affair living with the OW. I planned A for a month & 1/2 then went to plan B for about 10 days. I was at peace with myself I did everything I possibly could do.

I know now if something like this occurs again, I am strong enough to end the marriage & not look back. I will not do this a 2nd time. But I had to prove to myself I could do everthing in my power the 1st time.

It got much better after he moved home 5 days later.Currently going on 3 1/2 months. I am currently trying to trust him. Some days are better than others.

The thing that most motivated me was I wanted my dd to know I did everything possible to save this marriage. Marrying someone is not to be taken lightly. It is for better or worse. I could of been a better wife this I know. So leading up to the affair was not all my H's fault. I take responsiblty for that , it's his baby for stepping over line. I am not responsible for that.

I understand crying in the ceral aisle ..... I cried at Wal-mart on a weekly basis for awhile.

I understand putting on a happy face all day at work so no one knows & cracking at 5:05pm in my car leaving from work in tears because I kept up the facade all day long.

I understand the days your laughing & have a good time but in the back of your mind there's a dark cloud hanging over you.

None of it is easy. Some days are down right hell. The man we trusted with the most precious thing we had to give.

I have been married for a lot longer than you.So i had more memories & good times to hold on to. But you have a couple of little girls that need their mother & father. You do not want to portray to them that their father tried but you didn't. Because one day someone will tell them that if you decide not to & move on.

You have every right to. Most of my family & friends think I am crazy for trying. I'm not trying to make you feel guilty or feel sorry for him. But think about what you are going to tell your girls when they are old enough to fully understand what has happened & they ask you why you didn't try when he wanted to & make it up to you.

My daughter pushed me to plan B because of the disrespect in her eyes. She seen how I was letting him walk all over me. Do what's right for your girls. If you try for awhile & you just can't get past it then you have a free pass but right now you don't. A marriage takes 2. You had your part in the begining also just like he did. That's all I am saying.

If your H is willing jump on MB like a hot potatoe , I just wish my H was willing do everything your H is.

Seriously, I just want to assure you that nothing your WS said in the heat of the affair about the OW was any different from anything else a typical WS would say. You have to understand that when someone has an affair, the brain chemistry changes and people can't think clearly. I know that it still hurts, but understanding it can help you compartmentalize it. I had to read in my WW's journal about how she had never been in love with me like she was with the OM, and whenever I exposed, I was ruining OM's life and that he didn't deserve it. Everything she said and did was to defend the OM. Sure, it really made me angry back then, but she doesn't defend him now. After 2-3 months of NC, the fog starts clearing up, and the WS starts seeing things again for the way the truly are. The same will happen with your WS. In the meantime, we will work with him to try and clear things up more quicly so you don't have to endure any more. You don't have to commit to anything now. Let your husband's actions the next few months determine if he is truly serious about building the type of marriage that you would want to continue in.

This is true, What we experience in love is chemistry in our brains. That should give you hope also, that no matter what, your chemistry will balance out too.

The thoghts we have, and the way the reward system works in our mind. is best served by the truth and reality. We CAN have a relationship based on that reality, and can know the joy of being loved and the priveledge of loving others, based on what is happening in actions, not just ours but others, towards that goal.

It allways takes time to adjust to being betrayed, and what you feel goes from wanting back what you thought you had, to hating them because they hurt you, and the rollercoaster of thoughts and emotions and blame and guilt. Its not a comfortable place to be. I/We understand.

In the end and with time and support you will come through this crap, as many have. The only way is through it, and heck its painful, but you WILL come through, and be stronger and love better because of it, as well.

Sorry you are experiencing all this. Have a happy holiday

Hold it together, seriously.

If you've read through enough of the basic concepts, then you know the giver and the taker.

If this time is anything for you like it was for me, you are asking yourself "Giver and taker, who? I can't hear them over the 19 other voices in my head!"

I had actually described to my wife 9 different voices in my head, which were all components of my personality and emotions... that I was at times able to hear all at once.

I often times felt like a schizophrenic.

Let's see which ones I can name still...

The self that loves my wife
The self that hated her guts
The self that was angry (yes, separate from the hater)
The self that wanted to forgive her
The self that worked intelligently
The self that was hurt (yes, separate from the angry)


... that's all I can remember right now. They were easier to identify while my mind was still fractured and the little jerks were all arguing with each other.

There are several of those aspects of myself that are very powerful, and very good at making sure I have an enriching life... the other ones? The other ones are more like political protesters; they kind of show up and hold up a sign, but they don't really have any idea what the sign means, nor how to support what it means.

Those aspects which don't know what's going on, are the most powerful emotions. They are loud and disruptive.

We can simplify down again... I'll be bad, and put the taker in charge of "negative" emotions (though the taker is more protector than a real negative).

All your taker is going to care about, is getting the he77 out of Dodge, and as far away from your WS as possible. Your taker doesn't care what it does to WS, your taker doesn't care what it would do to any family or children, your taker doesn't care what it will actually do to YOU.

Let me restate that; when your taker is in total overload, and you let your taker drive, your taker NO LONGER CARES ABOUT CONSEQUENCES TO SELF.

Neither the giver nor the taker are rational aspects of self. They are each powerful aspects of self in their own right, but they usually live in this moment, and nowhere else.

Following our emotions in the moment is a foolish way for anyone to live...

Hi, seriously. I just wanted to pop in and say that both my wife and I have posted here, and we've also received the advice not to post on each others' threads, and it is good advice.

What we were told is that we probably can't keep ourselves from reading each others' threads, but that we should avoid having any kind of back and forth on each others' threads. i.e., don't post on each others' threads, and don't reply to something from the others' threads on our own thread.

I think it's pretty good advice.

Please pray for me. All I have is hate in my heart. And you're right, I don't seem to care about the consequences of D for my children anymore, just rationalizing. I know something is wrong.

What an awesome post, really does a good job explaining what becomes of our fractured self-image, and like you said, "They were easier to identify while my mind was still fractured and the little jerks were all arguing with each other."

I am 53, this is not my first time at the rodeo dealing with bad situations, negative thoughts, and the like. Your decsription really was very clear on "the little jerks", and the political rantings from some thoughts that had no idea what was going on also, they come out in fear, with no logical plans, just complaints.

When you can let those thoughts that prompt you to react from that anger and fear go. When you bring them under the command of your own reason, then they will go away, because you will see they are detrimental to you, and your emotional health.

Anger is the natural reaction from fight or flight, and from fear, Its normal to be angry right now, but to act on it, could hurt the very thing it is protecting. I know its hard to even care right now, but trust this place and the wisdom of those gone through it. In time it will pass.


I will pray for you also, but I think maybe this will mean something too. I cryed at your request, I relate.

Seriously, I hope your talking to the Harley's. In lieu of that get a bat, tennis racke or your hand and beat the bed and scream and yell at the bed all the things you want to say to your husband. This has been a huge release to me.

Having a physical outlet for some of my anger really helped me.

Remember, your feelings are important. I will keep you and your family in my prayers.

I am saying prayers and thinking of you. {{{{seriously}}}} Hang in there....

It's perfectly understandable to be feeling the way you feel right now. You just had your heart ripped out. Trust me, the pain will pass. I am about 4.5 years past d-day and it's all in the past now. Just keep coming here and letting it out. Or go to the gym and take it out on a punching bag. It will be alright. Just breathe.