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I have heard and read this line several times, twice directed a me, at other times about other people.

What do you think it means?

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In almost every situation on this site where that has been written - infidelity was discovered.

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Originally Posted By: gg615
In almost every situation on this site where that has been written - infidelity was discovered.

Yes that has seemed to be a common theme, and sometimes double-infidelity was discovered. But I never understood...does the infidelity actually mean that the original statement isn't true? Does someone EVER have the ability to not be "in love" with someone they previously thought they were in love with?

I understand many times infidelity (on both parts sometimes) can and often does lead to statements like that, but why does that always seem to be used as an excuse for it as if it's not true?

Did the cheating cause the "I'm not in love with you" statement...or did the not being "in love" anymore cause the infidelity? I guess it's a "chicken vs. egg" discussion that will never actually be answered.

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I think it has a couple different meanings. Primarily, I think it means that I the speaker has little desire to do anything loving for you...especially if it requires some sort of sacrafice on thier part or if it would inhibit thier ability to be 'in love' with someone else. In other words, I don't want to work on filling up your love bank.

As well, I think it means that the speaker doesn't feel anything when you attempt to love them. They don't have that feeling anymore (if ever and your attempts to show that you care are wasted. In other words, thier love bank with you is in the red.

As already stated, both of these statements fit right inline with someone who's having an affair. I don't think it necessarily means that the feel out of love before the affair per se, because the person really cannot mentally accept the affair if these conditions aren't meet, whether in reality or the person's own imagination.

Of course since this in the post divorce forum, I would think hearing this from someone could also mean that you just don't have the characteristics I'm looking for, I'm not over my ex/at a place where I can date, or don't think you're really at a place where you could date. If you aren't married or in a serious relationship, I kinda think that, although it's not very descriptive, it's helpful communication.


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succinctly, it means that I am no longer attracted to you, but i have been in this relationship with you where I have loved you before, just not now. I am bored with you, and you have / haven't grown up the same way i have.

the other reason is that some people use relationships to fill inner emotional voids, and that works only for awhile, and then it stops working. When the voids stops being filled by you, then one is no longer in love with the other.

just some simple examples.

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My best guess is that it means your presence fills a void in me and at times I enjoy being with you. But, it is more of a friends thing than a romantic, erotic love.

There are many kinkds of love, and the english language does not do a good job of distinguishing. I love my kids but not in the same way I love my mother, which is not the same way I loved my ex-wife, which is not the same way I love my cousin.

I thinking that ILYBIAMILWY means you are now a friend, a good friend, one whom I might even still sleep with, but, honestly, not one who rings my bell and gets my hormones stirring.

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The cheating happens first, then to justify their behavior and not feel guilty - a wayward uses fogbabble talk "I Love You, but I'm Not in Love with You." My FWH said the same thing to me - it was all about him not feeling guilty for his selfish behavior.

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It is not a chicken/egg situation.

Unless MB principles were being used, there may have been a lack of passion/intimacy in the M ~ but the ILYBINILWY speech comes from the contrast effect. The OP has met ENs that reach the romantic threshold, fantasy has set in and suddenly the WS's feelings for the BS dramatically change.

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Originally Posted By: Erwin_flagstone
I have heard and read this line several times, twice directed a me, at other times about other people.

What do you think it means?


It means the person has a new point of comparison. Otherwise how would they know they were "not in love?"


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Originally Posted By: Erwin_flagstone
My best guess is that it means your presence fills a void in me and at times I enjoy being with you. But, it is more of a friends thing than a romantic, erotic love.

There are many kinkds of love, and the english language does not do a good job of distinguishing. I love my kids but not in the same way I love my mother, which is not the same way I loved my ex-wife, which is not the same way I love my cousin.

I thinking that ILYBIAMILWY means you are now a friend, a good friend, one whom I might even still sleep with, but, honestly, not one who rings my bell and gets my hormones stirring.


I kinda disagree with this and think it's more along GG's line of thinking. The "I love you" part is about alleviating guilt. It would be heartless and unthinkable of me not to love you anymore. However, the 'not in love with you" part is what they consider to be uncontrollable, it just happens, and I'm not at fault for it. My ex never used that phrase, she just told me she didn't love me and basically told me that the emotions weren't there. She also turned it around and stated that it was more about her not believing that I loved her then it was about her not loving me. The sad thing is that there was some truth to that in that good intentions are not always enough. But whatever.


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Originally Posted By: gg615
The cheating happens first, then to justify their behavior and not feel guilty


GG...and anyone else...this is never something you can just blanket in a black/white statement. I hate when people try to do that. It's so childish to represent something as "always fact" when there are SO many other factors in people's lives.
I'm going to tell you you are not always right. The cheating does NOT always "happen first". That's just BS. If that's how it happened to you...so be it, but that doesn't mean it is always the situation.

Or...maybe some people NEED to blame a 3rd party for the actions of their WH/WW so it MUST be because they were cheating that they don't love you anymore. Surely the WH/WW couldn't actually have realized (before cheating) that they really DON'T love this person they married and might not ever have. Do you have ANY idea how painful of an emotion THAT can be to go through? Sometimes I can't stand how ridiculously childish people can be to put out a blanket statement that might (or might not) be true in their life and represent that as how it must be in every other situation in the world that might sound similar. That is such a simpleton thing to do.

Expand your mind a little bit beyond you're small little world and realize sometimes...it isn't always the cheating that was the ACTUAL problem. Sometimes the infidelity is a result...not the cause.

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Originally Posted By: Captain76
Originally Posted By: gg615
The cheating happens first, then to justify their behavior and not feel guilty


GG...and anyone else...this is never something you can just blanket in a black/white statement. I hate when people try to do that. It's so childish to represent something as "always fact" when there are SO many other factors in people's lives.
I'm going to tell you you are not always right. The cheating does NOT always "happen first". That's just BS. If that's how it happened to you...so be it, but that doesn't mean it is always the situation.

Or...maybe some people NEED to blame a 3rd party for the actions of their WH/WW so it MUST be because they were cheating that they don't love you anymore. Surely the WH/WW couldn't actually have realized (before cheating) that they really DON'T love this person they married and might not ever have. Do you have ANY idea how painful of an emotion THAT can be to go through? Sometimes I can't stand how ridiculously childish people can be to put out a blanket statement that might (or might not) be true in their life and represent that as how it must be in every other situation in the world that might sound similar. That is such a simpleton thing to do.

Expand your mind a little bit beyond you're small little world and realize sometimes...it isn't always the cheating that was the ACTUAL problem. Sometimes the infidelity is a result...not the cause.

If you had gone NC with your OW and used MB to recover your M, maybe you would be able to see the situation differently.


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Captain,

If you look around a little bit you'll see that it is common knowledge around here that affairs happen more often when the marriage have other issues. However, there is no justification for cheating. Everyone who has a failed or bad marriage needs to own up to the mistakes they made in the marriage, I don't think anyone is denying that. However, to say "if I was a better spouse, he/she would not have cheated" is a rediculous, useless and damaging statement. Everyone owns their own actions.

To get more to your point though, you are correct that there is often a problem in the marriage first, and the spouse lost that loving feeling before they cheated. However, the statement is almost always made as a means of justifying actions. If you were still in it for the marriage, I image most people would find a way to word in a way that wasn't so hurtful to the marriage, nor would they participate in an affair.


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Originally Posted By: Captain76
[
GG...and anyone else...this is never something you can just blanket in a black/white statement. I hate when people try to do that. It's so childish to represent something as "always fact" when there are SO many other factors in people's lives.


Captain, only a simpleton doesn't understand generalizations. crazy In order to be a valid generalization, it does not have to apply to EVERY case, but to a sufficient number of instances. Generalizations are an important part of inductive reasoning. The validity of a generalization is based on the RULE; you can't dismiss a generalization based on an exception. Because it is understood that every generalization has exceptions.

And in this case, the answer is a resounding YES! Dr Harley, a clinical psychologist, is hardly "childish" and when he hears someone say "ILUBNIL" he very matter of factly states "that means he has a new point of comparison." ie: AN AFFAIR. I don't know of him ever being wrong. How else would the person KNOW he was "out of love" unless he had a new point of comparison? Lets just use some common sense here. When someone is falling out of love, they say they are falling out of love. They don't say "ILUBNIL." When you have been at this day in and day out for years, you realize how it is used almost exclusively by cheaters.


Originally Posted By: Captain
Expand your mind a little bit beyond you're small little world and realize sometimes...


p.s. Captain, before you tell others to expand their minds, I would remind you of your admission that you have problems with clear thinking. You admitted that things are not "black and white" but rather gray and fuzzy for you. That is an obvious impediment to clear, rational thinking. I would suggest exercises to sharpen up your own mind before you lecture others.


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Expand your mind...isn't that something waywards say to the BS to make them "realize that what I did isn't so bad!"


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I might have spoken a little too harsh or gone off on a slight 'tangent' due to my own personal conflicts with this topic...that I see and understand.

But I still do not agree that it is right to make generalizations that to not be in love with someone anymore means you cheated on them and that's why the marriage failed. Many marriages have failed LONG before they legally "ended" and long before either party cheated...if that happens.

Sorry for being a little overly aggressive with my previous response. I got a little over-generalizing myself I think. smile

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Originally Posted By: karmasrose
Expand your mind...isn't that something waywards say to the BS to make them "realize that what I did isn't so bad!"

I still don't understand this constant use of "wayward". I know what the word means and I know the context in which people keep using it. What confuses me is the constant over-use of calling someone a WH. When you say stuff like this are you reminding me that I wasn't faithful so I feel bad about where I am in life? Are you reminding yourself that your spouse wasn't faithful so you feel better abt where you are? Would you be considered a "wayward" if you had both cheated? Who would be "wayward" if you BOTH cheated? Is the "original wayward" the problem...does it even matter? To just keep throwing out a negative label because you think you understand the whole story of another person's life/marriage is rather rude.

I've been rude in the past though, and hopefully I've been called out on it and apologized.

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Originally Posted By: Captain76
[I still don't understand this constant use of "wayward". I know what the word means and I know the context in which people keep using it. What confuses me is the constant over-use of calling someone a WH. When you say stuff like this are you reminding me that I wasn't faithful so I feel bad about where I am in life?


I use wayward because it is easier to type than infidel. smile And hopefully you do feel bad about being bad. Otherwise, we might wonder if you had a conscience. People are supposed to "FEEL BAD" when they are bad.


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karma, which do you prefer? wayward or infidel? It is hard to decide.... think


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In my particular case, my ex had a BF before we were officially divorced. She had petitioned for D and made it absolutely clear that she had every intention of carrying it out months before she started seeing someone else. Whether or not that's cheating, not sure, but it's definiitely in a different category then cheating behind someone's back. And she never ever told me ILUBNIL, she just flat out said she didn't love me anymore. There is a difference and that's what people are warning about.

And I don't see your objection with the word 'wayward' at all. It is what is. And yes, if both cheated, both are wayward...and both are betrayed. Vows are vows and never does it say that you have the right (or it doesn't hurt) to cheat if you aren't in love any more, or if your spouse cheated first.

No, I didn't cheat. However, I am divorced, and I was a poor excuse for a husband, making a lot of mistakes. That's facts, and sugar coating or excusing isn't going to change that. Blaming my actions on how my ex treated me doesn't change that or make my actions excusable. I am not that man anymore, but that doesn't change what I've done or the labels I've earned, anymore then my mistakes changed the good labels I've earned, or mean that I am doomed to repeat my failures.

It's quite understandable how BS's have a big dislike (hate maybe) for waywards, especially if they aren't taking full responsiblity for their actions. I doubt they feel like it was justified, even if their spouse didn't love them anymore.


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