The benefits of Plan B start to get better each day. I feel so relieved to start the year fresh so I can make some good decisions from some of the learning and growth that happened last year.

I do have some crazy dreams, mostly to do with H finding a 'better' person. A lot to do with my decision to have an affair. Still quite haven't forgiven myself for that one.

Whilst I am more at peace with myself, I have been in a better place to reflect. I do believe that I deserve remorse and an apology for the way he has behaved since my A.

Yesterday was a good day. I spent the day on my own cleaning the house, made some healthy soup, watched some good films 'The War Bride' and got a good nights rest and was completely fine. Going to take better care of myself, I just realised there is nothing wrong with slowing down I have just been through quite a huge trauma watching my dad pass.

Going over to my step mums today to spend time with her and read some of my dads cards, tissues at the ready!

I have also getting to the point that I am going to be just fine and that I need this time alone.

Yes an in time you will be glad you did not do everything you felt like doing, even though you will feel justified if you did. Your emotions will not rule you and you will seek your own peace whithin with every decision.

(Dam I sould like a hypnotyst )

But this is true Harm.
Normal but still disturbing I know..

After my wifes death and because she was a foggy wayward herion addict and we never recovered at least to a point that she saw she was hurting me so much, I never heard the words, "I'm Sorry". Words that I had heard many years before from her when just drinking owned her troubled mind and she got sober. I was still in a state of guilt and hopeless loss of control. and helplessness.

Because in my mind I still feel its all my fault somewhere deep inside, in my dreams right then after she went home I must have reflected what my worse fears were. I had dreams of being in a inner city ghetto, controlled by my own emotions, and experiencing an out of control sense of being lost with a compulsion to follow and chase after a woman. In this case it was my first wife, drugs were involved, and I had no control. I woke up when the dream was me having sex with her and the imagery was so intense it scared me awake. It wasn't making love, it was an out of control compulsion to bond. I think its called hysterical bonding.

Those dreams have been long gone, but I know that in our minds are memorys we process when we sleep, and I am sure when I have dreams they are a nessesary part of a healthy process emotionally. If I remember them I give them some thought, but I don't give them to much weight, because they are coming from my own perception, and that cannot allways be trusted, as can anyones. They are just part of the process of adjustment to reality and my concept of it.

We are human Harm. We must reach out and up for the answers, and forgive ourselves as we process the truth we will fall without the proper support. At the same time we must learn some of the rules given to us are for our own good and trust them, or suffer the consequences which will follow. Thats the gift you have now, you are not alone in the human condition, and there is help in understanding.

You seem to want to understand whats going on. We can help in that, but the rules will allways apply. When people tell you to just "do it" and lay out the way to recover your marriage, its not because they are disecting all of the past mistakes or believe it will help the future to do so, its because they know that the proper actions will produce the results of a recovered marriage.

Forgive yourself please, you are only human, and the terrible painful details of the past and who did what will not help your future except that you have learned something from them. Again Scottys statement."Scars show us where we have been, they don't have to dictate where we are going" The fear will pass. You can have a bright future, how will you plan for one?


Yes you do, but is he ready to recognize it or give it. You can't force it either, he must realize it himself. Thats what Plan B is for.

To give him time to see what life would be without you, no contact, no Emotional needs being fed or drama being sustained,(something that fuels his self-pity BTW)

To simulate what it would be like divorced, to let him be alone with himself, to not have you around to blame for his sorrow,(something we must all do and part of your process of realization also)

To each realize that getting even, being angry, hurting each other is pointless and futile. That making a plan with forgiveness at its core and detailed actions that MUST be done if we are honest, is the only way back to being real and honest even with just ourselves.

To finnally realize we still love each other, and thats why the emotions are so high, and the laid out details and demands are not accusations in disguise, but a guide to how you can restore love, a love you both really wanted anyway, what you both sought to begin with in your union, one even stronger because it doesn't come from you, it comes from above.

It will take humility to realize that, and being alone without having all the past painful reasons to hold onto the anger, and the realization that they do no good anyway for anybody, has a way of teaching us we are part of the problem.

Maybe then he will apoligize, but he must come to this truth on his own. Even couple who are recovered realize years after what they did and how they hurt thier mate. They apologize again, and hopefully are forgiven.


Yes, you have been through a lot in the last year, grieving loss is a process and trust me it will get better.


That is so sweet, and sharing that grief will be healthy. Have you read any books about the stages we go thru in grief? Not to prolong the grief but it will help you to identify feelings and not feel unattached because we all handle it differently, and the stages are different for everyone. Its totally personal Harm, and bittersweet.

Don't be to alone OK? Good trusted friends that you can spend time with accually doing things healthy for you beside the times you might have to talk about problems are normal. You find out who your friends are that way too.

Happy 2011

Sorry to t/j, but to Constant Process, you are in my prayers. Thank you for keeping up the good fight and helping others. God will heal your pain my friend. He healed mine. Stay strong brother!

Now Harmony, 2011 is YOUR YEAR! Do enjoy this peace, quiet, and make this year about your positive choices, and smile. Breathe deeply in and out (I used to feel as thought when I first entered plan B that I was breathing quite shallow and it caused my bp to get too high), exercise frequently, and show love to yourself and children and friends.

Time will work its' magic and God will also burden the heart of your wh. Blessings to you and realize the peace of plan B is the beauty of it, along with what happens to the ws during this plan.

Trust. It's all good. Just trust!

[t/j]God has a great sense of humor

From peachys Sigline,, yeah thats what I hear, lol, and am looking for too!

Thanks peachy.[end t/j]

Harmony,

I like CP's recommendation of specificity. Don't you just love that word?

I would make a few suggestions. Consider that your H does know what MB is nor the jargon, so make sure you don't use it specifically or he will be confused.

One thing struck me and the request that he have a plan. My thought would be just slightly different. He MUST be willing to sit down with you and lay out a plan that protects both you and him and addresses what each of you need in this marriage. This should be joint effort. What would help this planning effort is for him to consider what would be an "ideal" marriage for him and what he would need from his W. This should be coupled with what he is willing to do for his W.

Please understand that POJA and even "radical honesty" are negotiating tools that make for the best possible win-win plan and that is what you want.

Harmony, I think your draft letter is an excellent start. I think CP's recommendations are excellent. Communications have always been a problem with you two, so be specific as to what you want for Plan B to be over. Give him a path home that even HE can follow.

God Bless,

JL

JL, owe you an expanation, but rather to tj I will create a new post.

Tom

While some people who share my belief system are rather dry, I would say that be it God, or just the Universe, the Duck-billed Platypus is evidence that we were meant to laugh, even if left scratching our heads as to why.

That would be the best thing I agree, but it seems they both are confused and want to, and maybe need to, spend time apart before they get to the planning stage. They both seem to have some wayward mindsets mixed up with BS sorrow. So Harm wanting to be in plan B and with Him allover the place, I thought a letter desribing what she needs, coupled with what she wants, would be the best choice for his healing too.

Maybe I am being to careful but I see every time they are together and every conversation filled with misery and blame, or desparate hysterical bonding, which frankly is scaring and confusing both of them. As you too have commented, communication issues seem to be thier biggest hurdle. The drama seems to mess that up.


So at least give him a letter she can get behind and believe in, while she goes into a dark Plan B, and he is in his own dark place too.

If possible the best would be them sitting down and making a plan they can both get behind and trust, but because they both want time alone, she can show him what she wants and dreams of untill he realizes or not he wants the same thing, or close to it, and then they could sit down when recovery is on its way.

Like you JL, I see a lot of issues with him that he is maybe slowly dealing with, but I don't see him ready to commit, forgive, or be accountable for his part.

But the spirit of what you suggest is right on, and something he can understand is important too. So it doesn't sound like "MB-Speak" and scare him by confusion. I think he gets scared easily when he doesn't understand, but thats normal too in this tender situation.

Thanks for the thumbs up on my suggestions. I hope she can re-word them with whatever appropiate spirit conveyed applied. They were just suggestions and i expected that they might need tweaking. Maybe by some of the vets also.

Sometimes I talk to much and am to wordy, lose the point in giving what I think is a complete explanation, if you know what I mean guys.


Everyone have a great night in MB land

@Harmony, HHHigh, and CP:

There's a million reasons why my tag line is what it is, but I'll tell you the main silly reason. When I had to leave my once dream home that I built with xwh, I left and was practically penniless. My xh made sure of that. I left behind a home that was for most people in their 30's way way way out of a normal price range.

Fast forward about four and a half years at a certain sushi bar where I meet my now DH, that handsome guy (my DH) asks me where I lived. I said "in such and such, GA". He says, "I live in such and such GA" (another neighboring small town and atl burb). I reply "Wow that's funny. A long time ago I used to live in such and such subdivision in such and such town". DH replies, "That is really funny. I live in the same subdivision. On the 15th hole."

So everything I lost, God gave me back. I walked away from everything materially I had, to go on faith and just try to start over. It took a painful divorce, several years of working hard to get on my feet alone as a single mom, and to try to heal financially and emotionally but it happened. And when my heart was healed, God allowed me to meet the right guy at the right time. The right man also to be the right kind of father to my son.

I now reside in a far different area of same subdivision where I once built my dream home. And how is that possible knowing I live in such a major metropolitan area? But I have to add. I live in a better section of that neighborhood now. God DOES have a sense of humor.

What a victory story peachy.. I get it, Georgia peach.

Did I use that word? Lol, It doesn't even sound like aa real word does it?

Ok seeyas tommory.

Hiya Peachy

Love your name! Thanks for popping into my thread.



You totally hit the nail on the head. I have just given up smoking (i was smoking about 3/4 a day). That helped with the anxiety. Its when a thought pops into my head, such as H falling in love with another woman or some other horrible thought, that the anxiety kicks in. I do a lot of running but could with some meditation excercises to still the mind.





I really believe in Plan B, but that thoughts take over and I just think what I am asking from my H is too much (sorry!!), thats just my negative thinking process.

I am going to put my trust in the Plan.

Still DARK! Have not heard a peep out of him, I have not talked about him, checked his FB (I have blocked him), checked out his friends FB or done any drive bys.

Little bit withdrawal at the mo.

Hi Ms. Harm,

"Its a delicate balance, between taking care of ourselves and knowing ourselves, and taking care of someone else. We must come first, and we must have a balance also whithin ourselves, before we can truly help anybody." - Constant.

Well, Constant does really say very profound things, which we can all benefit from.

I can empathize with you in terms of the physical separation that you are experiencing now with your H, and the uncertaintly about the future. It is not the same thing I know in terms of your situation - we are older, there isn't an emotional detach or the longing that the other person will do the right thing in the end, but there is the separatation and the loneliness. In your case it was a decision to protect yourself and your love for your H, in my case it was forced due to the fire. In the end, we are both faced with this separation from the person who we are a part of, and who is a part of us.

Many times in the past I have been faced with Char's lengthly hospitalizations - 3 months in 1978, 2 months in 1979, and several other times. These were not by choice of either of us, but nonetheless they were hard. Neighbors, friends, coworkers and my boss asking where she was, the times out for dinner with a friend or neighbor, and I felt like the 'third person' (back then, not many understood mental illness and the need for long hospitalizations), and the nights just sitting alone at home, pining, feeling sorry for myself compared to others, drinking, and blaming myself for causeing her breakdowns. I did have support from her parents, mine, boss and friends, but i just knew they didn't really understand how I could be so down in those days.

Well, with your decision for your Plan B, how do you get thru these times without failing to take advantage of this time for you?? That is what it is - time for you - whether it is chosen as in your case or imposed as in mine.

How you strive to get thru this IS going to make a difference in the rest of your life Ms. Harm. It just will. As Constant said, "it is a delicate balance,' and "we must come first" in these situations. That may sound selfish, but it is not. It is self-protection, self-preservation, and in this case, preservation of the love you still have for your H. You cannot worry every hour of everyday how he is going to react.

There are lots of ways to get thru this, and I know you may be thinking it is easy for me to say, but, focusing on you means simply discovering yourself, your limits and self improvement. When I was younger and she was hospitalized it meant taking care of the house, yard, and even cleaning the house. Now that I am not working as much it involves some things I could not or did not do when working full-time all these years - leaning to cook different meals (going to try baked lemon chicken and this week and salmon loaf next week - I didnt get to make these last month), a rigourous program of exercise (I would love to be in shape this coming spring to do a 60 or so mile marathon for a chariy and enjoy it and see the outlying areas - I have even thought about a cross-country bike trip!), volunteer work that is meaningful, gardening (still am trying to learn how to propogate the geraniums from last year which are still green for this coming spring), and, of course, teasing and taking care of our cats every night. These are not just 'make-do' things Ms. Harm, these are things I am truely interested in and want to use them to excel and to challenge my limits. Believe me, Harm, I believe these activities can make me a better person and contribute to my knowledge of myself, and if Char benefits from this then that is so much better too.

Just take Care Ms. Harm,

Tom

Hi Harm.

Just wanted to relay something else to you, and yea I know this may be stupid, but nonetheless.

Had a desire to attend mass on New Year's night, and altho it was like 10 degrees walked there and am so glad I did. I just felt like it, and I promised Mary I would for the first saturday. (I know - very catholic, which I am not that much and have heard that from Char over the last 30 years - but was something I wanted to do).

The homily was "epiphany". Of course, the message was about the revelation of Christ on Christmas, but the priest made the point that it can be applied to so many things in our lives. A sudden and intuitive understanding of the reality of something.

I think that is what you are going thru, as most of us do in relation to a life experience. To fully realize this tho, we need to have faith, patience, and and an open mind. I feel this applies whether is is the reality of a marriage, the reality of a faith, or the reality of any life-altering event.

Just a jumbled thought, but I thought I would pass it on to you.

Tom

Updated Plan B Letter (only changes are in red)
DH

Words cannot describe how sorry I am for creating this mess, if only I could turn back time things would be so different. It is the worst decision I have ever made, and one that I will always regret for the rest of my life. I know I put you through incredible pain, both through the affair, treatment of you and lies. I am ashamed of my behaviour.

I honestly believe that it was a self destructive cry for help rather than a love affair. I should have told you the truth before the A, that I was struggling, that I needed your love, support, time and attention. I thought if I had to ask for it, it meant that you didn�t love me. I have realised that I have self destructive coping skills that surface when I am faced with difficult situations. The stressful new job, the house move, the house building, in law issues, your business finance issues, the wedding, the fertility problems, Dads cancer, all took its toll and I did not know how to cope.

In the past 6 months, which has been very tough I have used this time to work on me and implement new coping tools, as this would have been prime time for me to get self destructive, but I have made it on my own and learnt to cope with some pretty tough [censored] and be strong without doing anything destructive.

I take full responsibility for creating the position we are in, but I cannot take responsibility for some of the actions and decisions you have taken since. Some of those actions have been very painful and caused me many sleepless nights, nightmares, tears and anxiety. I know that if there were no other women involved, then I would have tried to win you back harder, but I had to pull back for my own sanity.

I have learnt that in order to receive forgiveness I need to give it too. I do not want to have a contest of who hurt each other more, or whose decision was worse than the other it is a waste of time. What I do want to do is apply new principles from the ground up, it�s what I have been waiting for �..but I cannot build a marriage alone. I still believe we can have a wonderful marriage one day if we truly made a DOUBLE effort at it with both of us.

Until you can truthfully and honestly return home and work with me on rebuilding our marriage, I will be having no communication with you, and I will avoid seeing you. This is not to punish you, it is to protect my feelings for you. If you need to contact me or need access to the house, please speak to sis.

For reconciliation to happen I would need the following to happen before making a commitment:

> No contact with the other women for the rest of your life.
> A full confession.....an ability to be totally open and honest with me about anything I ask about whenever I ask.
> A sincere, remorseful apology...for the pain and suffering you have caused me
> Complete transparency to each other in all areas of our life (to all phones, emails, credit card bills and receipts, passwords, facebook etc)
> Sit down together and agree a recovery plan for us both which will protect us both and address what we both need from a marriage and what we are willing to give. Examples include,
Spending time together
Stop doing things that cause each other unhappiness e.g. solo holidays, angry outbursts, criticising, lies�
Doing things for each other which makes us happy e.g buying cakes!, arranging days out, supportive of business, consideration of others feelings, involving family�
Complete honesty about everything including thoughts both positive and negative about each other�s behaviour, whereabouts, hopes for the future�
Move home to a new area

I truly love you H, and love being with you, that�s why I wanted to marry you. I want to have a happy fun life, doing all the amazing things we have talked about, you know what I mean. I want to be with you for the rest of my life.

I love you always, Harmony.

I think that is a good start, but am not a plan B expert or letter expert Harmony, so wait for others too to give a thumbs up.

Are you sure thats everything? Anything else you want to add but need help in expressing?

Hi Constant

No I think thats it, in the plan I have covered the 4 areas of recovery outlined by Harley but in non MB language.

I am frightened about giving him this letter, frightened because I feel that it will come across as 'too much hard work' and too formal for hubbie.

Also last time we spoke he was adamant he had nothing to be remorseful about, but he also knew what he was doing was wrong.

Foggy thinking?

I think he is afraid of recovery and it is not about my affair anymore, it is the damage he has caused and continues too.

Hi Harmony,

I don't want you to be frightened about giving your husband the Plan B letter. I think it's time and now is the time to change how you two have dealt with each other and that starts with honesty and saying what you want whether he likes it or not, he is a big boy and he can take it............
You have covered your fault and your willingness to fix all the wrongs and make the marriage a great place to be for both of you.........
But Harmony he has to be in the right frame of mind for that to happen.........
It's time to step away and let him make the decisions he needs to make for himself...........judge him by his actions.....I think if you listened to them you would realize that he isn't where he should be, not yet anyway.............
After you have given him the letter, you go dark and move on with your life he will have to show you at this point that he can change and does have a willingness to stay in the marriage the right way............if he doesn't then move on and find a new life for yourself...................you have tried that's all one can do..............
Stay strong in 2011 ........it's your time now, you have grown for the better............

What jessie said, and give him some time to figure out it all up to him to change him, up to you both to change the marriage relationship.

I beleive he has the capacity for change, and I think more time is nessesary for him to realize what he will be missing.

You need time too. No rush now,, give him the letter and stay dark.

Remembmer to set up like scotty said a way you will know nothing about him, and him you. Protect your plan B like you will be protecting the peace and integrity of your marraige someday. with discipline and trust in the right actions.

TTyl Harm, God Bless

Hi Guys

Coming upto the 2 week dark point of Plan B - yeah !!!

Why is it that I am starting to be upset and annoyed with the way he treated me?

The peace of him not being around is good, trying to analyse his crazy thought process was driving me crazy. He gaslighted me all over the place. He even told me to go away and come back to him in another couple of months after I had sorted myself out. This was after I told him that he had shown no remorse over the way he had treated me.

I know I am not supposed to be bad mouthing him, but just venting really.

I could do with getting some more interests going like Tom suggested.

OK I got chatted up at the shop today, I ofcourse did not react but it felt good to know I was still attractive to somebody. It has also been awhile crocodile if you know what I mean? Not that I needed it, it was just a surprise thats all.

Vets - if you could have a peek at my Plan B letter would be much appreciated.