Actually, there is. In past years, "performance" was never a problem for me. As you probably gather, she doesn't "help" in any way. But that never mattered before. Now I need some help if I am to perform. Which requires us to venture into areas of behavior we have so far avoided - hence the need for communication. Or we need to restrict her advances to ocassions where we have enough time for me to get my help from a blue pill. Which means she cannot be spontaneous and expect good results.

Also, part of this is clearly psychological. In the past, it didn't bother me that she dissociated and mentally flew off to Planet X when we had sex. She consented and that was enough for me. Now I feel bad when she offers "mere" consent. Not sure she realizes this new perspective. Reducing my anxiety about whether I am taking advantage of her would be much easier if she would share her thoughts and feelings about why she is consenting and how she feels about having sex in these circumstances.

The performance issues on my part are new to both of us. So is my resistance to accepting her consent. So yes, I think there are topics for discussion that are not hackneyed. That doesn't mean it will be a pleasant conversation for either of us.


Come on Jack. You know I am never going to try anything that might actually work. That would either require that I become a big success at work - which terrifies me. Or leave Mrs. Hold - which terrifies me. I would much rather stay comfortably ensconced in my misery than brave the dark waters of change.

Hold what I was talking about, is you coming up with a plan that might have a chance of creating more interest/ desire in Mrs Hold, for your relationship .
I am yet to be convinced that you leaving is a good winning plan to do that. You need another plan. I'm sure you have got one.

As for riches? They can be a 2 edge sword (She only loves me for my money). HOG.ASX will bring home the bacon so no need to worry.

Hold, I have a quick legal question over on my thread, would you please tell me what you think?

How can I make this any clearer. There is nothing that will create any more interest or desire in Mrs. Hold other than my earning lots more money, taking her on fancy vacations, buying her a fancy car, jewelry, clothes, etc. She expected that when we got married. She is disappointed that it has not happened. And that disappointment prevents her from having any interest in me sexually. The potential to earn big money was all I thought I had to offer a woman, and so it isn't any surprise that I got a woman who wanted me for my money. The only problem with that is that I don't have any.

Well, that plus my decided lack of physical attractiveness. But she knew all about that before we got married. We each made a deal with the devil. We both got what we deserved.

At least I have to keep telling myself that. Because the only other explanation for our situation is that her sexual history has caused her to separate sex from emotions. So she cannot tolerate sex within the context of an emotionally intimate relationship. If that were true, the solution would be for her to address her anxiety. Which she has steadfastly refused to do.

If the problem is her PTSD and not my lack of wealth, then I am not doomed to failure. I might be able to find another woman who would actually be willing to have sex with me. If I believed that, I would have to leave Mrs. Hold. Which I refuse to do. So I will not allow myself to believe that.

NED, which thread? I don't see one started by you. In this forum?

It's linked in her sig.

I don't think you have to have a conversation about this with her.

I think YOU need to have a plan.

Just because she "makes herself available" or "initiates" does NOT mean you have to take her up on it.

You need a plan for those times, to be direct IN THE MOMENT.

"Wife, I would love to be with you, but it will take about 15 minutes for pill to take effect. I dont' have that kind of time this morning, but I am certainly looking forward to our SCHEDULED time to be together tomorrow". Or something along those lines.

Don't talk to her about it--it only adds pressure to her, and depression to YOU.

She did a good thing by offering (though I suspect she knew she had spin class the next day, and wanted an out). Doesn't let her OUT of the next day's planned session. And if you address it in teh moment, you will both feel more manly, and you will increase your chance of getting what you want.

No more "wah wah wah, this doesn't work for me" talk... (in my opinion). SHe doesn't care!!!! BE direct and honest (radically so) IN THE MOMENT.

Telly, that is a great idea. I need to be more honest in the moment.

This morning on her way out (after the ritual peck on the cheek to show me Affection) Mrs. Hold said "seeya" in a cheery tone.
I replied "no I won't, that is the problem".
She asked "what do you mean, where are you going?"
I said "no where but you are going to work and I am going to work so I won't see you all day. Bummer."
She said "that is a sweet thought, thank you."
Then she left.

I don't think I have done a good job of communicating how much our relationship dominates my thoughts every waking moment, and in such a negative manner. Most of the time I talk to her in a very loving if co-dependent manner. Exactly what Harley warns against. I repress and resent and then it builds up and I self-sabotage. Deeply embedded pattern that I have not been motivated to change. Maybe as we get closer to the kids leaving, I will be brave enough to be honest more of the time.

Hold what Telly wrote is a good example of how to interact with your wife confidently, positively and in the moment.
Waiting 5 or 6 years to tell your wife about about your "negative manner", is neither positive or confident nor in the moment.

How does your wife feel about your down ramping of self?

She hates it. She feels she tied her wagon to the wrong horse. Which, of course, is correct. I have given up on trying to succeed. I am done trying to get my needs met. I just want it all to go away.

I have been treated for depression on and off for the last 30+ years. Nothing makes any difference. I never feel better.

I don't spend much time reminding my wife of this because then she might leave me. But she knows.

Of course she hates it.
The perception of yourself that you build up in a woman�s mind is where her sexual drive comes from.
We have all tried the begging bowl way (poor me), but it doesn't work. The best we can expect is sympathy and sympathy sex. Who wants that?
Ever wonder why so many so many guys that have nothing going for them, end up with attractive women?
The reason is that they think he is a great guy. In surveys it is shown that most women would choose a guy that makes them laugh over a guy that is rich. A woman can marry a guy because he is rich, but that doesn�t mean she really wants to have sex with him.
What causes women to want to have sex is the interaction that leaves them feeling he is a great guy.
A great guy isn�t someone who brings them flowers everyday. That is a desperate person.
Telly gave a great example of the calm, confident, interaction of a great guy.
It's all in the words and more how you say them.

Yes, I understand confidence is key. I understand seeing myself as a great guy is key. Why the heck do you think I am so pessimistic?

I got a small raise and a good bonus yesterday. Plus they agreed to get me a dedicated parking slot in the garage, so I guess they aren't planning on getting rid of me anytime soon. Feels really good, especially since I hadn't heard anything in months. I spent 4 months putting together my presentation and nagging my department head and HR to get back to me. So after 2 months of no response, I figured they didn't plan on doing anything but also didn't have the guts to tell me to my face. So when the department head walked in and gave me a sealed envelope yesterday, I was very pleasantly surprised. In this economy, any positive progress is great. I am trying to soak up the good feeling and not let eeyore back in for at least a few days. Mrs. Hold gave me a big hug and told me to go buy something for myself to celebrate. Mostly I want to pay off debt, but I might get myself a new car radio. Right now between the mp3 player and the Sirius radio and the gps unit, my front seat and dashboard are a tangle of wires.

Anyway, had to share the good news with you guys.

That is awesome Hold. Glad you got some positive news.

Mrs. Hold has been incredibly pleasant the past few days. She keeps referring to me as "Big Time". It is crystal clear that FS is the key to her heart. Hopefully I can build upon the positive momentum in that area.

hold,

That much seems obvious at this point but do you know where the threshold is? How much do you have to make, how much success do you have to have before you've reached that point of satisifaction with Mrs. Hold? Or is it the forward progress, the continued accomplishments at work that she finds important? Do you know how successful you have to be to meet her needs?

Travis

Hold,

It is always good being rewarded or recognized for work well done. It is also nice that Mrs Hold shows appreciation. I think it means the most to family and colleges.

My daughter rang a few days ago, all excited, to tell me she had just got a 10% bonus. Naturally I was delighted for her.

The thing is Hold, I don�t expect anything from my daughter and I think it is a little ungracious to again pin FS on to all of Mrs Hold�s motivations. Even if it is true.

Rather, I think Mrs Hold is genuinely happy for you. She seems to have turned a corner some time ago.

Don�t turn the clock back. You can not win her with money. That�s prostitution.
Just how many cars can you give a woman away? It�s a loosing hand.

Enjoy the simple moments as they come and it will be enough.

Just spent several days at home. Lots of snuggling. No sex. I am content. Imagine that.

Thank goodness my sex drive has mostly disappeared. In the end, by waiting me out she "won" our battle of wills. I am trying not to hold that against her, and drop my resentment. I think she sees that, and I think it helps her offer the increased amount of cuddling that is helping me overcome my resentment.

Hold, it is a womans job to try and knock the man off his perch.
She doesn't want him to fall off though, because then nobody wins.

Being contented is good.

PS Hope you spent all your bonus on bacon. Jan 2011 the raging boar comes out of the pen.

Back on the roller coaster. My fault.

After dinner last night Mrs. Hold said something like "you know me, I jump full force into everything I do". I replied "well, all but one thing". She gave me the death gaze. "Does that mean what I think it means? OMG, I can't believe you said that."

Since then she said she isn't taking to me, and she is rethinking whether I am the man she wants to spend the rest of her life with.

I apologized, but also said she needs to get out of denial. Maybe what I said hurt her feelings, but it is not a shocking, unexpected announcement. It is consistent with countless discussions over the past 15 years. If she is rethinking our entire relationship over that one bad joke, then she hasn't been listening to anything I have been saying for the past 19 years.