Thanks, Mr. W! Some very good thoughts and ideas. I've been gone all day and haven't had any time yet to delve into this further. I'm glad I read this before I did as your suggestions for discussion are very good and a way to approach it so that both S17 and H should "get". :-)

Right now they are watching a basketball game on tv together so I'm glad they are not avoiding each other because of last night. At the same time, I DON'T feel it should be swept under the rug! S15 mentioned it to me this afternoon, so I know it is still on his mind as well. He said, "I almost said...Well, dad, what about what YOU did and thought it would be too awkward."

Not much new to report. Conversations with one and all went well. It is still a work in progress, but everyone is doing the work so we'll make the progress!

Here's the thing: With all the MB tools at hand, you get a nice step-by-step guide to gaining a good marriage out of all this trauma. I wish there was a step-by-step guide to healing the kids as well. I know the focus has to be the marriage first and foremost, but it is difficult to always know what to do with the kids. When they are older, like mine, and know about the affair and had such strong opinions, how do you reconcile that? It's a tough job: you can use some of the MB tools but a parent still has to parent. I know it just takes time rebuild the trust back. Who knows: maybe one day the Harley's will write a guide for the FWS and kids! (hint, hint!)

SO.. It has been 3 months since H and I started the rebuilding process. I feel very good about things. I am at the point where I know we are going to make it and don't feel there is an ounce of withdrawal left in H. There has been 0 contact with OW since the affair was busted. H has complied with every request. We're doing the work. I'm still afraid of getting lazy and letting things slide, but that's not such a bad thing: it's good to be concerned with that to ensure you stay on your toes! I am not afraid at all that this is a false recovery. That's a great feeling! H shows complete interest in me - in our family - and I feel we are doing a good job of meeting ENs!

SOOOO...at this point, I'm wondering: should my thread be moved to a recovery forum? Is it better for it to stay here? Or, perhaps, should I start a new thread in the recovery area?

What the heck is wrong with me?!!!

Everything has been so positive lately. So, of course, I have to find something to make myself feel bad - right? H had to go to work this morning because he needed to take care of some things at the office this weekend while he could have all the equipment down without affecting anyone else. (He's an engineer.) So, of course, after purusing the boards here for a bit, I went on facebook. Then, I went on my alternate facebook account that I set up during the crisis. (I set one up with my Sunny name so others from the boards could find me on the alt - without being attached to my real name since the kids and H were, of course, friends on my main FB page.) Anyway, so what do I get a wild hair to do? Check OW's page. She blocked me on my regular page - which is fine by me! Now, I didn't find anything there to be upset about, but just seeing her picture makes me want to vomit and gets me all upset again! WHY did I feel the need to do that?!

It's been 4 months since the affair ended. No more signs of withdrawal with H. I was good about confirming NC on my end for several months, then some of that dropped off because I no longer felt the need once I saw H's actions not straying from being committed. I have absolutely no reason to feel he is in contact with her. Part of me is curious as to what is happening in her marriage - if they truly hashed things out and are recovering as well or if she managed to talk her way out of it. (I never talked with her husband - just his brother and sis-in-law.) They never got back to me after last contact and let me know what happened on that end. I am 99% sure they would not respond if I contacted them to ask. They truly wanted out of it but did promise to maintain their end of the bargain: to actively seek for any contact on that end. OWH was supposed to contact me but never did.

Why am I concerned about this? I don't know - I really don't. I guess there is a sliver in me that wonders if her marriage tanks if she will try getting back with H. And while I am not truly concerned about H's reaction to that, that thought did cross my mind as I looked at her site. There sure is nothing on there that indicates that she is happily married. Yeah - I know: I can't worry about that. My job is to ensure my own happiness and work on my own incredible marriage.

Anyway, I just can't believe I succumbed to curiousity to go look and make myself feel badly by drudging up those memories - esp. when the triggers have waned so much lately! I couldn't leave well enough alone.

I guess it is wise to be on your guard to ensure no backsliding. You do have to take steps for awhile to keep the FWS honest...but for how long? Should I stop checking up now???

For the most part, I have a lot more good days than bad lately. I am starting to have moments of anger flare up and I know that's normal. Where it used to be hurt, it's now anger. It doesn't last long - very fleeting - but obviously that kind of thing probably never goes away.

I need to discuss this with H I suppose. I don't really want to because it means admitting to my own stupidity of doing something that put me back in that mental place again - but it is what it is!

UGH.

I don't know...you are only a couple of months out so checking on the OW is expected and normal.

On one hand it's unhealthy for you to keep checking but on the other...she is still a recent enemy of your marriage and keeping one eye open isn't the worst thing to do...IMO.


Don't tell your husband...it's still too early. I waited well over a year to tell my wife that her mother and I plotted and schemed to get her OM to secretly dump her as well as about other snooping things I did (which she, at that time fully appreciated EVERYTHING I did to fight for our marriage). Your BH should still be quite foggy...don't trigger him nor purposely place any thoughts of OW in it. He may get the notion that if you can look at her facebook page than so can he...as if "no contact" applies to both of you and YOU broke some deal. Who knows...just keep it to yourself for now. Radical Honesty is for a fully recovered marriage and even then, some snooping is encouraged.

Mr. Wondering

I'm glad you said that, MW, because after I wrote that I wondered if I should tell him at this time. It IS still early and I don't want to give up my weapons just yet! Plus, I know that talking too much about the A or OW can just make the former wayward think whistfully back at worst or be a LB at best.

The way I have coped with it this afternoon is to try to turn my thoughts back to positive: I did my nails and hair - and ordered a book on spicing things up! SO, you know - trying to turn lemons into lemonade! lol

A quick check in since it's been awhile since I last posted. This last month has just flown by. I've been so swamped with school work of my own and things with the kids. H and I are doing well. I feel like we are letting ourselves get back into some old ruts though. It isn't that we are committing major lovebusters, but we haven't been doing as well with the 15 hours a week and such. I know this is probably more my fault that H's because I've been studying so much. Well, he's had a crazy work schedule as well. We've simply got to go back to making it priority #1.

I guess I'm a bit fearful of letting things slide. That's not such a bad thing - keeps you on your toes!

My brother is coming in town on business. Haven't seen him for a year and 1/2. I can tell H is not excited about it and I can understand. It's going to be hard for him to face my brother knowing that he knows about the A. Well - tough, I say! Actions have consequences. My brother is one of the most upstanding people you could ever meet. He is as forgiving as it gets. He will treat H just fine and I will do my best to make H comfortable. However, he's got to man up and face this. I get the feeling he is going to try to "have to work" or something, to get out of seeing him. I feel I can't let that happen. Whether it's now or later, he's got to face that initial contact with my brother.

Any suggestions?

Don't be referee between them?

Good idea. Well, except knowing the two of them, they'll just not even discuss it and act like it never happened. I'm not sure that's any better than fighting about it, but the men in my life are not talkers, that's for sure. (Probably not many are, lol)

Can't believe it's been 5 months since you last updated. Hope all is continuing to go well with your recovery.

Mr. Wondering

Thank the Lord you listened to us here on MB. Who the heck would ever advocate maintaining/prolonging a separation despite a seemingly willing and contrite spouse in an effort to save a marriage? This is where folk wisdom gets crushed by the professional guidance/coaching plan that Dr. Harley gives away here at MB. The difference between MB and other plans is in the effectiveness of the minute details as implemented and not as discussed in some philosophical discussion.

This semi-old thread I stumbled upon is a great example of how well exposure, followed by a firm boundary (she kicked him out) followed by graciousness work (she took a risk and let him come back home because you can't work on a marriage separated). In about a month MB helped HER save her marriage and family.

If sunny were a betrayed husband with children that got "his" WW to move out to an apartment or hotel I'd have been much more hesitant to advising/coaching "him" to allow his wife to move back home so quickly as that may jeopardize "his" custody case and ability to go to Plan B (unlike sunny, "he'd never be able to get "her" back out again and I'd speculate that "her" attorney advised "her" to move back home whereas it's safe to say Mr. SunnyDix wasn't "coming home" as part of some custody divorce battle strategy).

Lots of nuances in these battles against infidelity.

Anyway...come back and give us an update Sunny...last I heard things were pretty great with your recovery. Aren't you working the Harley workbooks? How's that going?

Peace,
Mr. Wondering

Hi Mr.W!

Thanks for inquiring about my situation, etc... I guess I stopped popping in because I wasn't getting much response. All the things you've pointed out - yes, I think it was definitely the right way to go and I'm glad I had people and a specific program to point the way.

Things are going VERY well in recovery still! It's hard to believe that we are now 9 months in and I believe our marriage is better than it's been in years...maybe even ever. Mr. Sunny and I have talked several times this week about how good it feels to be working on the same team in things - whether with parenting, finances, our relationship, you name it. He's the first person I want to share things with and vice versa.

We're still doing the workbooks. In fact, tonight is one of our "workbook sessions". We have instituted not only a weekly date night, but family night as well. I wish D19 could be home for those - but being away at college, she isn't. It's been great though for our sons in terms of regaining that relationship with their dad.

I will tell you that I still struggle with triggers, sometimes very badly even - but not often. I know it's normal but it throws me for a loop at times. I also struggle as to when to share them with H and how - because I know every time it comes up, it's a LB.

I worry about us getting complacent and letting things backslide. So far that hasn't happened. I don't want to always feel like I have to be "on watch" but I think it's just one of those things that A: take time and B: is a good reminder of continuously making our marriage a priority.

I AM glad I listened!

This is all great, Sunny! Glad to hear things are moving along in your recovery!

Have you considered starting a thread in the Recovered forum? Your posts would be very inspiring for other posters to read. For that matter, they would be inspiring to posters on the SAA forum - ending your H's A was good work, as I recall.

Thanks, MB - it was pretty good work all things considered. Work I never care to repeat, mind you!

We are doing some of the worksheets again as I just felt we are now in a more normal state of things and I want to make sure we cover all basis. During the honeymoon phase of recovery we both did the worksheets with the knowledge that things that occurred (LBs, DJs, AOs, etc...) during the "crisis time" while H was involved with OW were not typically how things were. How we were, as a couple, pre-crisis was not how we are now. I think we're doing a good job, but I want to make sure we are not letting LBs go or letting needs go unmet because we are both content right now.

I don't know - I think it may be the PTSD still with me that wants to cover all bases - but better to cover them than not!

I never considered doing a thread in recovery because I didn't seem to be getting a lot of responses on here so I didn't think there was much interest. However, I would certainly be glad to do so.

I will say this: if anyone is afraid of holding a WS accountable, exposing an affair, etc... you should truly feel the fear and do it anyway. Do it right - do it with dignity - but do it.

Wow...

So glad to see you again. I thought you were gone and wanted to be sure that if you even glanced in here you'd notice people were still thinking about you.

Thank you for the update and so thankful that things are going well for you, your husband and family.

I, too, think a recovery thread would be great. Lots of people either break up an affair here on MB with exposure and what not and lots of people use the MB program to rebuild their marriages when they show up AFTER an affair but not that many wives arrive here (or anywhere on the internet) with your situation, use the program to expose an seeming undying affair, kicked out their husband ...and have the affair end a few days later and then have their husband immediately participate in a recovery program and have their marriage thrive using the program. There are a few around here but unfortunately not a ton (most move on at some point in the process or have a tough time getting their wayward husband on board...wayward husband tend to want to sweep things under the rug and have their wives just thankful they came home...like they did them a favor). How did you really achieve getting him on board and not just for a few weeks but it's now 9 months????

Anyway...I recalled that you were in school (how's that going?) and considered becoming a marriage counselor at some point in the future yourself. I thought you really would benefit from coming back here and participating. Infidelity survivors like yourself tend to post here with lots of hope and don't ever get chastised for doing so. MB is a safe place for "hope".

I also wanted to let you know about Dr. Harley's book he just published in 2010 for counselors to learn his processes. It's called "Effective Marriage Counseling" and if you can't borrow it from our mutual friend, it's available at this website's bookstore at $15 or simply get a used copy for as low as $6.02 at Alibrus link

Welcome back,

Mr. Wondering

OK...I'll do a thread in Recovery, soon!

School is going well! I'll have you know that in each of my classes I've had the top average in each class.

Thank you for book recommendation as I'd like to read it. I've been trying to decide if I want to stick with the MC career choice or major in Communications and go another way. I'm a bit jaded about the MC profession as so many get it wrong! I wonder if I would be wasting my time, beating my head against a wall, trying to help people who are too afraid of doing what they really need to do in their marriages. The time is coming when I'm going to have to decide though - and soon! lol

As for how I got Mr. Sunny on board with recovery, I'm not sure there's one answer. It's the culmination of things: tough love mixed with forgiveness and grace. If he had treated it like I was lucky he was coming back, I wouldn't have let him. Once he was back, if I had treated him like I was standing there, whip in hand, barking at him at every turn, he would've resisted the MB efforts.

I can post about it more specifically later (perhaps in my new Recovery thread) but basically - he is willing to do anything I ask in recovery because he knows everything I ask if not just for "us" as a couple, but ensures his happiness as well. He knows my true desire is for him to be happy and that he is loved. I also know that his true desire is my happiness and to feel secure again. Because we know that, we're willing to do what it takes towards our ultimate goal - a great marriage. It's not a tit for tat thing: it's knowing the hurt you've caused, being willing to atone for it while the faithful spouse gives forgiveness and allows for the spouse to feel respected again, and worthy of admiration and appreciation.

Don't worry so much about responses right now. MB has around 300,000 unique users coming through here each and every month and about 250 new registered posters every month. We just passed 62,000 registered users many of whom stop by from time to time. Success stories get huge play and things here get read and the messages of "hope" are being delivered and received. The posts that DO get made are thoughtful and insightful and generally not off-topic banter about a bunch of nothing. Waywardism is not tolerated here and waywardism, if you read enough forums, drives up post counts dramatically (waywards love a distraction and here themselves talk). Also, MB doesn't have a true dating forum where single people mingle endlessly. There are also no private messages here on MB fueling a hidden gossip machine and stirring up anxieties and adding to the "post count". Don't get me wrong, post count is nice but post content is SOOO much more important to a forum. Finally, MB is much more specific than some general marriage forum like talk about marriage dot com. Sure the program can be used by anyone but generally people come here and post that are in crisis situations or the very end of their ropes. You can truly make a difference here and won't get drowned out by some internet guru who thinks dating while married is the best way to wake up a wayward.


As you may be aware, the board has recently gone through a transition where a group of waywards were called out for simply using this place as their personal chat rooms and drowning out all the other voices with their constant pot stirring, criticism and judgmentalism. It was endless battles over religion, feminism, politics, masculinity, who deserved recovery, who didn't, who the real men are and aren't, manning up, whether waywards should have a voice and were entitled to "free speech", whether OM/OW's are people too, whether waywards are really just walk away spouse not really responsible for their choices and the consequences of those choices, whether dating while married is a good idea...all arguments and debates that distracted from the true goal of REALLY helping people learn MB (the sign on the door) that arrived here in whatever crisis condition they arrived. The trolls and waywards that knew little or nothing of MB have since moved on and the "dating while married" group were banned from here years before that.

Anyway...MB is now, once again, finding it's true voice and we'd much appreciate having your MB success story and your voice included in that process. You can truly make a significant impact here as a LEADER. Email my wife and I at the address below and we can explain more.

Mr. Wondering

ITA. I've seen so many comments from posters who have indicated that they have lurked for a long time before they decided to post. If you look at the number of views on any given post, you'll see a lot of views without comment.

Your words will definitely be read and will be absorbed by posters who are desperate to read about successful recovery of a marriage damaged by adultery. They need hope and encouragement - success stories give them that.

Funny...Dr. Harley says the same thing and he just doesn't mess around. In the book I recommended he basically tells couples not to waste his time and their money if they won't do what he tells them to do. He's a hard nosed COACH...not a counselor who's going to sit there and let them naval-gaze all day about their family of origin issues or take 3-5 sessions of "in-take" information where he basically listens endlessly to assess the problem. He starts "coaching" immediately and finds it so satisfying that he divested himself of 32 mental health clinics in Minnesota so he could focus singularly on THIS passion.

Maybe this book will help you decide.


I think this forum (over and above other forum) may influence you as well. There is a lot more satisfaction over telling someone to do something and to see it work FOR THEM than sitting back and trying to "counsel" answers out of people. There is a thrill in situations such as yours where I saw people telling you in mid-November 2010 to make your husband wait until the new year before allowing him to move home, my knowing what Dr. Harley would tell you to do, and peer coaching you to do what Dr. Harley (a true doctor and professional) would tell you. To have you listen to me and have it work for you is tremendously gratifying. Ultimately YOU (and your husband) saved your marriage. A lot of other advice from others was helpful (or even more helpful) along the way. But I think I participated in your individual decision making process and helped COACH you to the right answer. It still could have backfired...and assessing your strength was important but ultimately it was the right decision and I'm proud of making the suggestion, pleased with MB for teaching me what to coach and very pleased you implemented the suggestion [and it worked].

Maybe you could write a book (or master's thesis)..."How the Internet Helped ME Save My Marriage: A Couple's Journey through Recovery on the Web"

Mr. Wondering

Hmmmm..... I'm getting ready to go out on a hot date so not a lot of time to write, but some very intriguing points made, all around.

I absolutely love your book/thesis idea!

I also love what you had to say about being a marriage "coach" rather than a MC...and internet gurus...and all of that.

And yes, it could've been risky to have my H move home when he did, but it made sense: how were we supposed to focus on each other and rebuild romantic love living apart? Not to mention through getting through withdrawal and feeling secure. Sure, the month he was out was good - to help him realize what he was facing on his own, without his family. But once the commitment to reconciliation was made, you have to do it 100%.

Recovery story posted!

Here: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538986#Post2538986