HARMONY! HARMONY! I just saw your photo on Photobucket.

OMG...

YOUR HUSBAND IS AN [censored]...YOU ARE GORGEOUS! How's he ever gonna find ANYTHING better than you?

Nice to put a face to the name. I'll post mine if I can figure out how...

Thanks Mitze! Of course I had to look too... Lol.

You do have a very sweet countenance Harm, your eyes are very soft and... Hold it! This isn't appropiate!

Seriously though I thought you would be a brunette, don't know why...


I asked about the long post because I know how it is here. Being one of the worst offenders of making them even I skip over them trying to see what "everybody else" said. The only time I read them all the way thru is if I am following a certain thread, or going to post to someone who allready has a long thread and need to understand more. Everybody is warned about making long posts. People sometimes just don't read them

But back to why I asked. There was a lot in that post, the problems you must be facing with his Mom seem to be at the core of your problem. I can imagine how a woman who has such a close relationship with thier Mom, and has had problems with father figures, would really be upset by how this Mom of his is. She must have broke your heart too.

Did you ever read some of the posts about the validity of your feelings? How it is WH job to comfort you and protect you from the negative influences from his own family if nessesary?


No long post tonight. I think we are at a point where a lot of words aren't helpful or nessesary reading material for someone in crisis. I just want to encourage you and say that you are not alone if you think your feelings have messed things up and you doubt yourself or thier validity.

I assure you your feelings are important, and thier were reasons for them. Also from what you have said from the beginning, you worked and struggled for the right things and just wanted a good life with your H. Its not too late Harmony, don't lose faith in the right actions.

Hope your having a good night and continue finding peace and Harmony. (Ok , cheap joke)

This is a padded ...

What you need is not pointless, you need to give him a chance for you as much as him. You will never regret doing what in the long run will show you have the ability and capacity to love, and the guts to try and lay down your life again for your marriage.

Its not whether he comes home or accepts the help offered in time for a reconciliation before you move on. Its about you being satisfied with yourself and knowing its time after you have exhausted every avenue to heal what you once held so dear to your heart.

I only say this because I think that even though you have realized his part in not protecting his wife and why you had an A, you will have to think about someday that you did it first. It wont matter as much if you recover the marriage, but either way it will be something you will have to process and in time and future actions have to work through untill you forgive yourself. Whether you get back together or not Harm. You will go through it.

Its better than running away from it, or pretending it didn't happen, facing any future thoughts will be easier if you give it time.

By the way yes he will hate it, he doesn't want to face reality yet either. They allmost allways hate the letter, because it makes sense and convicts them.

We would all rather live in our emotions and the fantasy of believing we never do anything wrong or hurt others with our mistakes. But thats just not true.


Damn! another long post!

Ok goodnight.

I'd count you a close fouth behind FWW and my DD's, Harmony. I may have a slightly biased opinion, though.

Harmony,
There's something that bothers me about your situation (if I understood it correctly).
You were on-off A for a year in 2009.
Your BS becomes WH three months after you leave him -
A month later NC broken - you're back with OM
Your EA lasts another 8 months before H discovers NC broken
You Plan A Aug and have semi-started Plan B in Oct and still trying to Plan B.

Plan B is to protect you from your WH actions. Unfortunately his actions are direct result of your WW behaviors. Learning has a point about your WH. I have to think you don't realize the depth of your BS-turned-WH pain. He's lashing out at you in the worst way possible because he wants to hurt you. I don't know if your M has chance of R but I wish you well with your efforts.

Gg

Hello Constant

Thanks for your post. I did read it just hadn't had chance to respond. It was very insightful and helps explain a lot.


I always dealt with it badly from the start, as you have probably guessed my H and I are conflict avoiders. I saw the red flags from day 1, when my H gave me his mothers view without me asking, she thought you were lovely very chatty and full of conversation, to when he bought me my first valentines card, my other said I should buy you one! The major red flag was when I was buying a place on my own after being together a year, I had met my H shortly after coming out of a long term r'ship and wanted to take thigs slow. H told me that his mother thought it was odd I was buying a place on my own and I should have an ultimatum, buy it together or we split. Ofcourse knowing what I know now, I should have said no, I won't be pushed into something I am not sure about. It seems that H has spent the entire r'ship trying to prove my worth to his Mo, ofcourse he is on a road to knowhere, as the only woman she would like is one that she had control over. My card was probably marked from the beginning when she knew I would never let that happen. A point just before we got married we went to Australia for Christmas with my mother and stepd dad, she blanked him Xmas Day when he got to speak to her she was really cold towards him, and he was upset about that for awhile. She made him feel guilty about it, and he let it get to him.

So as far as MIL was concerned nothing I ever did was good enough which was relfected back to my H. When I had the A, the first thing my H said, well my mother was right about you. I guess he said it more in anger, as he so didn't want her to be right.


He did see it, but its like he has rejected everything about me since he found out about the A. He did really start to see how his M was, not completely but he understood. Mainly because his older bro, had the same issues with his wife. I suppose that he really trusted me, I broke that so he ran to what he does trust 'his mother'. I wish he could see she doesn't have his happiness at heart, she disliked his BF at school, liked his 1st GF who she had control over but my H just walked all over her, disliked his 2nd GF and then disliked me his wife.



Its funny, but I really feel that I have gone through a lot of that this year with my parents. I really have detached emotionally to be able to make my own judgements and views. I am not sure H has done it, he has been so angry it has just not been his focus. He always says that I don't have my own view and I always listen to my mother - could be projection? He treats his own mother with cold contempt.



I just hope he sees it He is going through his own growth process aswell here, lets hope he uses this time, I think and pray that he is.

My only worry that being appart is going to make it easier for him to walk away.

I am using this time in a positive way, I just worry about the disconnect of not being together.

I am not sure how long I can remain in Plan B. I am concerned that he is on a mission to replace me.


Thanks COnstant.

Yes I can stick to Plan B, just floundering thats all and having situation over analysis anxiety! It is still along the same lines as what SH is saying and that is getting him to commit to a plan.....I love him enough to wait.

Why thanks Mitzie

Look forward to seeing more pics, its so weird after talking to people all this time!!

Thanks GG.

Yes I had an PA on a business trip, I came home and told my H I was leaving. 5 weeks later I realised I had made the biggest mistake of my life. I cried to the OM what a huge mistake I had made and how much I loved my H. I tried to reconcile with my H but he would not talk to me, he already had a new GF by then. After numerous attempts to speak to him I left him alone, he then contacted me about 1 month later. It was disaster from then on. We started trying to recover the M, my H wanted to take it slowly still living appart. My H was still in touch with OW and acting independantly, so I broke the no contact with the OM and used him as 'emotional support' to deal with my H constant rejection. Wrong I know.

I managed to get my H agree to let me move back in the house, then a few months later he read emails between OM and I and he discovered the A. The emails were mainly flirty but also talking about the efforts i was putting in to try to recover but H did not want to know. Twisted and foggy.

After D Day in March 2010, my H and I continued to live together. He told me that it was 'over' and had 3 more A's whilst we were living together. He did not make much attempt to keep them secret, it ws obvious but he lied about where he was going. After 7 months of this, I eventually moved into Plan B.
I broke Plan B when my father passed away.

I discovered MB July this year and initiated counselling immediately. I wish I had discovered MB from the day I married let alone before the A, maybe things would have been different. I understand why you need 'help' when trying to recover a M after adultery.

Yes I have put him through a horrendous amount of pain, the lie about the A, continuing contact with the OM and leaving the house and packing all of this. I don't think I can ever realise the amount of pain but can only try.

It made it harder to try and recover the M as he was actively seeing OW.

I feel like most of your very short "marriage" was spent in having affairs and disrespecting one another.

This tells me that you do not really know the meaning of marriage. Or how to have a marriage. Or how to communicate in marriage or be happy in a marriage.

I do realize that you have a compulsive need for a man, any man, especially this man to approve of you, accept you, and like you.

But to me, this seems like a selfish need based on your own neediness which has nothing or very little to do with romantic love. In other words, if you are still so emotionally infantlike or insecure, or have low self worth that you NEED a man to approve you or you won't feel good about yourself, then you will not be able to ever have a happy marriage even if you want one as we all do!.

What makes you think you are ready for marriage in any way?

The more you fret about this husband rejecting you, finding another woman, and dumping you, the more this tells me that you are indeed not ready for any relatinship with a man, especially a marriage. The sad part is that if you are not ready for marriage, then nothing you can do to get this man back will "work" or "succeed". You can learn the meaning of marriage and so can your husband. I just am not sure if you two can (or both of you want to) learn it together and in a few short months.

*I think you need some marital training before you venture back out there dating or getting back with this man (if that is possible).

If I dated a man and we both had affairs in the first few years I would realize that I was not cut out for relationships at that time and needed to get some self esteem and stay away from men. Also I would realize that I was not ready to settle down and rather, needed to meet many people and sow more wild oats.

There are many stages in life we need to all go thru:

You, Harmony seem to be at this stage to me:

1. The sowing wild oats stage where you date different people
2. The "attracting men" "flirting wtih men" and "getting men's attention" stage.
3. The dating stage where you meet new men, date, and have sex with them
4. The "learning about yourself" stage where you discover who you are.
5. The "emotional maturity stage" where you hammer out how you want your life to be and find out how to get there.

If I were you, I would refuse to sell myself short here. Fully explore and get through EACH AND ALL of these stages in your life. With the help of a counselor if you want support. Do not try and jump these "maturing" stages and jump back into a relatinship with this husband or another man.

Why do you not yet realize this fact that you are not and have not been ready for marriage??? What does marriage mean to you? (It did not mean very much given you had a long term affair)

Do you really still believe you are ready for marriage at this time?

The questions I would ask myself if I were you are this:

1. Am I really ready for marriage now?
2. What does marriage mean to me?
3. Can I learn to observe men and recognize red flags rather than jumping into relationships?
4. Can I hold off leaping into relationships with men and start getting some self esteem?
5. Is my husband a suitable marriage partner for me right now?
6. Am I a suitable marriage partner for this husband right now?
7. Are we compatable and both ready for a committed marriage right now or in the near future?
8. Why do I want a man around so badly?
9. What is it I need from a man?
10. Why am I so confused, afraid, insecure, and uncertain?

Ask yourself these and write out your answers in a notebook where you can track your progress.

Your progress in life should address these areas.

You need to progress in:

1. Developing morals/values for yourself
2. Hammering out areas where you are not yet mature
3. Figuring out what things you like and dislike
4. Seeing the talents and qualities you possess
5. Exploring your relationships with men and observing the problems
5. Figuring out where you are weak in self esteem
6. Bolstering and strengthening your self esteem
7. Finding out why you are so needy
8. Figuring out what marriage means to you compared to "dating a man".
9. Discovering how to judge a situation wisely and observe and judge a man wisely.
10. Learning to see people as they really are rather than "how you want them to be" or "how you think they should be or should behave".
11. Learning how to keep immature, toxic or abusive men and women out of your life.

If your foundations for marriage are not there or not developed, then your questions about this husband are moot and will mean nothing in the larger scheme of things since you will not be mature enough or ready for marriage enough...to carry out a marriage even if he does choose to come back.

These things will mean nothing if you are not ready for marriage and have a good self esteem without a man:

Mean nothing:

1. Whether your husband will find a better woman soon than you
2. If your husband will come back or if he won't
3. If he is still cheating on you or not
4. If you can get him back or not
5. If you should stay married or divorce
6. How you can get him back
7. If he loves you or not

None of these mean anything if you are not ready for marriage and mature enough to handle a good marriage and all that it means. You should get down to the roots of why you cheated, why you lied, why you had no morals, and why you are not mature enough not to cheat your whole marriage. And then solve these problems FIRST, before trying to rope this man, who may not be a suitable marriage partner anyway, back to you.

What I fear you have been doing, Harmony, is closing your eyes, and diving into any man near you without even thinking about it. For example, you have been eagerly flirting with other men and relaxing your boundaries around other men. You also try and attract men for attention and to make yourself feel good. These things will not help you. You husband will not help you learn to love and value yourself. Having a man around will not help your self esteem or make you feel "normal" or "better" just as having a child will not make you "normal" or "feel better about yourself" either.

You got a lot of learning, observing, and growing up to do my friend before you attempt to save this marriage or create any other relationships with men at all.

GG615

Although you are a little confused to the timeline as I have seen it, you are right in seeing Harmonys situation as being greatly aggravated by her affair.

The difference in what you see is the behavior extremes between her and WH, and how he even looks at most women, or treats them.

Harmony realized shortly after her angry, fantasy filled and exciting affair with OM she screwed up and she gave up on WH and her. Then she moved out and tried to fix her own life by the blame game against WH. Thinking she might get together with OM out of a combination of shame and justification of her actions. But her conscience and feeling for her WH would not buy it. It was only a matter of weeks before she moved back home, and sought help and reconciliation. Her feeling for OM was more of a withdrawl from her own fantasy of escape which OM represented. She contacted him and shortly saw who he was, and that he was a POS trying to be big swinging Richard eventually. She stopped all contact pretty quikly, though she did go thru withdrawl as she looked at herself and found the support from people here she needed. Proud of her for that.

Am hoping WH will return and take our place as he should in supporting her.

Her contact was limited and she did not have a "poor me your so wonderful" fantasy with him like most deep EAs are, and do the most damage to the marriage. She has made great progress in that, and has shown WH remorse from about 2 months since her PA.

Is the above paragraph right Harmony?

Then from that point when WH found out about the affair, his world being collapsed, he reacted by fighting fire with fire. First he was angry, then he started seeing other women and I suspect drinking and diving into the pit he felt he must have fallen into, and must fight his way out of. Although reacting in anger gives a certain relief to us, we eventually realize the consequences of our actions in our reactions to fear or "fight or flight" WH does not see or recognize he did anything wrong, and blames all the problems on her A, even though his neglect for her and failure to protect her and the marriage had much to do with her A. Of course if Harmony had come here first, as many people here will say, we could have helped her with a plan B to help that. Harmony realizes that the A made things worse.

WH is still confused about what behavior makes for a good marriage, the nature of what will restore love, and is in a self-destructive cycle confused, afraid, and doing the blame game. Slowly he is getting better but still needs to work on himself, which has been greatly hampered by his Moms ball-busting treatment of all men around her and his acceptance of that as being the way it should be, and his habits he has developed to deal with that reality as he sees it.

Again Harm would you agree with that statement?


The problem is with our reactions that we don't understand. We do things for a reason, we feel things for a reason, and our thinking, then our actions, create our world which then our feelings respond to. We all need a plan to be happy. But we rush into relationships because we see all the good posibilties, and we minimize the problems, hoping they will work out. Most people do this, and without the hope and faith in dreams we have, we would be negative and not even try to build anything anyway. After we are there we learn how to cope and grow as we learn what love is about, or we squirm and fight the truth of what it takes to love, and blame everyone else.Its a self defense mechanism, we all are capable of it, and its a challenge to rise above IMO. The rewards are personal.

Speaking of actions, and the result of them. We find ourselves responsible for our situations and would like to believe we did no wrong in them. Taking action is normal, but the reasons are within ourselves. Was it a reaction to fear or a righteous act of self protection? The question is in whether it was righteous, or was it the right thing to do. Our emotions don't think things through, they react, and sometimes they are right, but we have no control over them and them us unless we let them.

I am worried that Harmony will see her affair as an action that was right, instead of an act of despartation and fear. Much like it really was, and she is realizing that, but she still blames her WH for it inside when she is backed into the corner of blame and the overwhelming realization of how damaging it was. She still hasn't completly forgiven herself, but that will go away as she has changed and is still changing her thoughts and looking at the proper actions that will produce the right thinking.

I also believe WH justifies his actions and at this point anyway cannot deal with his own issues. I think they had issues that should have been dealt with before the marriage, but who doesn't? While in the marriage they should have been worked on but had no plan to because they hadn't reared thier ugly head yet. Harmony tried, but WH ran away into denial and IB. The rest is history, and it is history BTW Harm.

What needs to be avoided IMO is either of them justifing what they did in destruction of thier marriage, in future times they find themselves in conflict, so those defensive reactions don't happen again. This will stop thier marriages growth, and thier personal growth, which is what its all about. Mutual support and caring for another weak and frail human being in this world so selfish and wishing to just serve itself. Its a battle that must be fought anyway, and running away from it does not help us. Loving someone else is a gift we can share with God, and being loved is also a gift from Him. But we must rise above to the God of our understanding, and start there.

Like Dr H perscribes as far as I can see.

I hope I summed it up accuratly, I think it needed to be summed up anyway and I have been following this thread since the start. I belive some time in a plan B with a laid out plan of recovery will do wonders for Harmony, and if WH eventually returns for him too. Of course its up to them, but it would be wrong to say it can't be recovered, and to encourage her in waiting, and help her sort out things for herself. She is still thinking she must do something about it, and I think time apart might bring clarity and WH might get help in recovery for himself, and maybe even the relationship.

Hang in thier Harm

Ok now that you have pointed out the problems Bubs.. What are your ideas for a solution? Its easy to find fault, it doen't make you a wise counselor.

Hi Constant, It took me awhile to add the possible solutions, as I see them, to my post to Harmony. I am sorry you only got the first (too short) version! Go back and look now...thanks.

I feel like most of your very short "marriage" was spent in having affairs and disrespecting one another.

This tells me that you do not really know the meaning of marriage. Or how to have a marriage. Or how to communicate in marriage or be happy in a marriage.

I do realize that you have a compulsive need for a man, any man, especially this man to approve of you, accept you, and like you.

But to me, this seems like a selfish need based on your own neediness which has nothing or very little to do with romantic love. In other words, if you are still so emotionally infantlike or insecure, or have low self worth that you NEED a man to approve you or you won't feel good about yourself, then you will not be able to ever have a happy marriage even if you want one as we all do!.

What makes you think you are ready for marriage in any way?

The more you fret about this husband rejecting you, finding another woman, and dumping you, the more this tells me that you are indeed not ready for any relatinship with a man, especially a marriage. The sad part is that if you are not ready for marriage, then nothing you can do to get this man back will "work" or "succeed". You can learn the meaning of marriage and so can your husband. I just am not sure if you two can (or both of you want to) learn it together and in a few short months.

*I think you need some marital training before you venture back out there dating or getting back with this man (if that is possible).

If I dated a man and we both had affairs in the first few years I would realize that I was not cut out for relationships at that time and needed to get some self esteem and stay away from men. Also I would realize that I was not ready to settle down and rather, needed to meet many people and sow more wild oats.

There are many stages in life we need to all go thru:

You, Harmony seem to be at this stage to me:

1. The sowing wild oats stage where you date different people
2. The "attracting men" "flirting wtih men" and "getting men's attention" stage.
3. The dating stage where you meet new men, date, and have sex with them
4. The "learning about yourself" stage where you discover who you are.
5. The "emotional maturity stage" where you hammer out how you want your life to be and find out how to get there.

If I were you, I would refuse to sell myself short here. Fully explore and get through EACH AND ALL of these stages in your life. With the help of a counselor if you want support. Do not try and jump these "maturing" stages and jump back into a relatinship with this husband or another man.

Why do you not yet realize this fact that you are not and have not been ready for marriage??? What does marriage mean to you? (It did not mean very much given you had a long term affair)

Do you really still believe you are ready for marriage at this time?

The questions I would ask myself if I were you are this:

1. Am I really ready for marriage now?
2. What does marriage mean to me?
3. Can I learn to observe men and recognize red flags rather than jumping into relationships?
4. Can I hold off leaping into relationships with men and start getting some self esteem?
5. Is my husband a suitable marriage partner for me right now?
6. Am I a suitable marriage partner for this husband right now?
7. Are we compatable and both ready for a committed marriage right now or in the near future?
8. Why do I want a man around so badly?
9. What is it I need from a man?
10. Why am I so confused, afraid, insecure, and uncertain?

Ask yourself these and write out your answers in a notebook where you can track your progress.

Your progress in life should address these areas.

You need to progress in:

1. Developing morals/values for yourself
2. Hammering out areas where you are not yet mature
3. Figuring out what things you like and dislike
4. Seeing the talents and qualities you possess
5. Exploring your relationships with men and observing the problems
5. Figuring out where you are weak in self esteem
6. Bolstering and strengthening your self esteem
7. Finding out why you are so needy
8. Figuring out what marriage means to you compared to "dating a man".
9. Discovering how to judge a situation wisely and observe and judge a man wisely.
10. Learning to see people as they really are rather than "how you want them to be" or "how you think they should be or should behave".
11. Learning how to keep immature, toxic or abusive men and women out of your life.

If your foundations for marriage are not there or not developed, then your questions about this husband are moot and will mean nothing in the larger scheme of things since you will not be mature enough or ready for marriage enough...to carry out a marriage even if he does choose to come back.

These things will mean nothing if you are not ready for marriage and have a good self esteem without a man:

Mean nothing:

1. Whether your husband will find a better woman soon than you
2. If your husband will come back or if he won't
3. If he is still cheating on you or not
4. If you can get him back or not
5. If you should stay married or divorce
6. How you can get him back
7. If he loves you or not

None of these mean anything if you are not ready for marriage and mature enough to handle a good marriage and all that it means. You should get down to the roots of why you cheated, why you lied, why you had no morals, and why you are not mature enough not to cheat your whole marriage. And then solve these problems FIRST, before trying to rope this man, who may not be a suitable marriage partner anyway, back to you.

What I fear you have been doing, Harmony, is closing your eyes, and diving into any man near you without even thinking about it. For example, you have been eagerly flirting with other men and relaxing your boundaries around other men. You also try and attract men for attention and to make yourself feel good. These things will not help you. You husband will not help you learn to love and value yourself. Having a man around will not help your self esteem or make you feel "normal" or "better" just as having a child will not make you "normal" or "feel better about yourself" either.

You got a lot of learning, observing, and growing up to do my friend before you attempt to save this marriage or create any other relationships with men at all.

That's what I've been missing: how long have you been married, Harmony?

Bubbles ty sooo much for ur post!! Harmony need to read and reread that post again I still think she should just file for a divorce and wait a year or two to start dating her wh OR someone new.

I actually stopped reading this thread because its always the same thing, harmony please do something different this thread has been in the exact same spot for 4 months now sigh....let's get going shall we???

Expectations on other people. Disrespectful Judgment.

You do not know this to be truth. All you know is that WH has a choice to make.

Do you think he will make the right choice for himself? If not then how are you any different from MIL?

Plan B is a choice for you also. Do you want anyone making this choice for you?

What are the expectations that you have for yourself?

There bubs, is some help
Dang i will print that list
But i think she can recover and still learn all that
If not then nobody should ever get married. Because it means you stop learning then
Its about restoring trust in the things you said also even though they didnt want to hear it. They sure will learn it now. Thats its work.
Thanks bubs

Hi Bubbles.

Yes I could just walk, yes I could just file for D, that is yet to be decided when I feel READY.

I love my H, and during Plan B it is giving me some time to truly reflect on some of his qualities and whether he is someone who is marriage material. The odds are probably not if I am honest, but I am prepared to wait. I know that just because I love someone, does not mean that they have the qualities that are desirable in a H.

In terms of which stage I am at, I am way past the sow your wild oats stage, in fact I have never really been in that stage. I could never really cope with 'loose sex' I did a couple of times and it really upset me. I have spent more than enough time single from the age of 21 - 26 so have spent time alone outside of any relationship. Anyway, I could not be less interested in other men at the moment if I tried and certainly don't need them to make me feel good about myself. I do 'observe' men more though, just because I have learnt so much here and I have never really understood them so just notice things now, like how they talk about their wifes. For example, a guy in my office today was talking abut his wife in a loving way about something she had done for him. The another in the office refers to 'her indoors' and calle dhis wife a name and I thought what a ?>:)*&&&%!!. I hate that. I was so naive before.

In all this madness with my father passing away and the separation with my H, EVERYONE I know says how I have really got my act together and coping with 'double trouble' really well. I go to work, I go to my college course, I go see my friends, I live on my own, I go see my family, plan trips and nights out and I am getting on with it just fine. Without a man, or needing one.

I am confident in my understanding of what makes a good marriage and know thats the stage I want to be in.

Was I immature when I went into the M, yes. Did I know what made a good marriage, no. Did I choose a H based on whether he would make good marriage material probably not. Did I have an affair as a 'lazy and destructive way' of dealing with the issues in the M, yes.

Have I spent the last year trying to piece things together and gain some understanding? Yes probably all day everyday.

Do I miss my H? Initially when I went dark yes. I am though more and more as time goes on, relecting back on his 'ways' and it is pushing me more against reconciliation.

I know that I could D my H, have some time out, and then someone else will come along. I am not afraid to walk from this M. What I am afraid of being like the many other divorce people who look back and say, chit I was a bit hasty there. Or just encounter the same problems but with someone new and the stats on 2nd marriages are poor.

I am in no rush and I (cannot speak for my H) know and understand what constitues a good M, and I am more than ready to start using what I have learnt. I have learnt A LOT. Hours reading threads, books, observing other M that I come into play with day to day life, and I know what works and what doesn't.

I would much rather be sat here in 10 years time, looking back knowing the growth my H and I have gone through. I know that I can't make him go through the growth he needs, but I want to give him that chance. I don't feel there are much odds to be honest. We both bought issues into this M, maybe it is what we needed, maybe just maybe its what needed to knock some sense into us both. I know I cannot control my H but time will tell, then I can walk. I am in no rush as Plan B is Plan growth, learning and improving for ME.

I know what you think Bubbles, that I should file for D and walk, most of my friends and family think that too, I find it hard sometimes to find a reason not too. I am just not READY.

Anyway, thats where I am at in Plan B, and if people find that the same old, same old, then dont read my thread!!

Bravo Harm!