During the breakdown of my first marriage I spent three years in counseling and learned the importance of making "I statements" instead of saying "you..." (blaming). Hubby (#2) of seven years tells me that when I talk to him I am very selfish because all I talk about is "I ..." , "I ...", "I ..." when discussing our problems. Has anyone else had this experience? My only other thought is to try saying "we" as much as I can, ie. "We need to come to an agreement on..." .

That would get my back up if I were your husband. What works for us is: "how would you feel about......"

Do you employ the use of the POJA? How skilled are you both at negotiating mutually satisfactory agreements?

Melody, Thanks for that very good suggestion. I'm not sure how I would use it when describing my feelings about a situation, though. That said, a "we statement" wouldn't cover my feelings, either. I guess I'll just have to keep feelings out of it and stay focused on strategies.

Hubby does not participate in MBing so POJA doesn't exist for us and negotiating is a struggle for me, at best.

But in your comment above, you weren't describing feelings. You were proposing a CHANGE by telling him "We need to come to an agreement on..." That is not a feeling. That is the segue to negotiation.


That is where I would start. Are you and your husband in love? Since you don't use this program, what is the state of your marriage? And how come you don't use it?

Actually, we need is a DJ. He may not feel that way at all. To suppose that he has the same need is in fact a DJ, or to suppose she knows better what is needed than he does, is a DJ.

So to say, "We need...." is a DJ.

Instead, ask for his view. It was suggested to ask, "How do you feel about X?" or if he's more of a thinker, "What do you think about X?"

That way it's not about "I feel...." or "I think...." because when one says, "We need..." there is the tacit, "I think we need..." or "I feel we need...."

None of those are feeling statements, they are judgments and therefore they don't go very far in building a relationship.

The I statements were suggested in terms of feelings. I.E. when you do X, I feel Y. I statements, as far as I can recall, were not designed to hide disrespectful judgments or demands.

Perhaps something like, "I would like to discuss, X, would you like to discuss this now, or pick another time?"

You see, even the idea that we must discuss something presumes it's as important to him as it is to you, or should be. Making it a DJ.

Instead, you make a respectful request to have the conversation, and must be willing to negotiate not only the subject, but even when and how the conversation happens. Just because one believes or feels something is critical doesn't ensure that your spouse will feel or should feel the same way.

Since you suggest your husband doesn't participate in the POJA, why not POJA how these conversations go. Don't have a conversation until both of you enthusiastically agree on how it will go. Now you don't need to tell him it's the POJA. Just start doing it. Ask him if and when he would like to discuss a subject or issue you would like to discuss.

To use the POJA means he has the right to say no never, not now maybe later, later, or yes let's talk now, or anything in that continuum.

So I'll suggest that you didn't provide a segue to negotiation, it's a demand and/or the DJ I mentioned above.

If you really want to use the POJA, you have to be willing to accept that he's not going to be enthusiastic about discussing things on your timing.

So if this is really such a big deal, perhaps you can demonstrate the benefits of the POJA by showing him how he has equal say in how and when things are discussed and how it prevents situations where you demand he feel as strongly about things as you are doing when you say things like, "We need to talk...."

"We need to talk is not a marriage building phrase, it's a DJ perpetrated on the spouse who receives that message."

Make a respectful request to talk, not a demand or DJ.

I had the same reaction as EE. If my H came to me and said "we need......." my first reaction is "i have not agreed that we have any such need.."

Not to piggyback too much, but I would be interested also to know about "I" statements with regard to feelings. Maybe it is because of my DH's counseling training in seminary, but when I start making "I" statements, he asks me to please not do psychology on him! It always kind of tickles me because I know what he means. But I would like another strategy since the drawn out I statement stuff seems to him like psychology...plus he would rather I just get to the point.

Everyone has different perceptions because of our developed individuality.

I believe it depends on the context of "I". If I say to my spouse "How can I make this less painful for you" - it is a win-win because there is a benefit for him. Next time think about how to make your statement inclusive of him instead of independent of you.



Gg

Reading your orignal post.. the first thing that came to mind, with your replacement phrase...

WE NEED --- This implys Disrespectful judgment IMHO, i would rather phrase it as a Request...

Can we reach an agreement on this? or use the POJA or

Bill, would it be ok to reach an agreement on this so we are both happy? (Phrased as a Request vs a DEMAND...

I might be off course here, just thinkin out loud for you.

Cherish Her

W8ing, do you think this could be more the result of State of Conflict than what particular words you're using?

I don't mean this as advice, because my marriage fell apart anyway, but we have a consistently good camaraderie now that we didn't used to. In the articles a working POJA is necessary to rebuild the marriage, but I wasn't able to convince B of that. But just doing the UA and FC time, and eliminating LBs to some extent, we were able to get back to a good co-parenting relationship. An intimate friendship and able to discuss things as friends and want the best for one another, instead of wanting to stick it to one another.

W8ing, I know that's not your goal, that you family deserves the whole thing, the happy family that lasts a lifetime. I hope you find the right person to convince your H about POJA. But in the meantime, what do you think about getting more consistency doing the fun things with your family, to go from that State of Conflict hostility to a comfortable State of Intimacy? Like in that When to Call It Quits newsletter, the one where the H doesn't want to leave his sexless marriage, but hangs in there for the kids as long as he can?

"I would really like for us to ..... How would you feel about that?"

To describe your feelings, use statements like these:

"I'd like ..."
"It bothers me when you ..."
"I like ..."
"I don't like ..."

To show thoughtfulness for your husband, ask about his feelings:

"How would you feel about ... ?"

Can you post some 'problem' phrases and we can take them apart, like markos surely remembers being done to him?

My first thought is that your H expressed that this is an annoying habit of yours, using "I statements", then my next thought was to be really annoying and switch to third person. "Waiting didn't like the calamari and wished her husband would stop ordering it for an appetizer and would choose to share a nice crab cake instead." lol.

My husband is "in love" with me. I am not "in love" with him, but I do love him. As a result of degenerative brain damage and depression he has had a significant personality change; he is loud and bigoted, not the type of person I originally chose. We are told that there should be no more degeneration now that he has a diagnosis and treatment, however the damage is permanent. The depression, I pray, is temporary.

I have been a member of this site for six of our seven years of marriage. My husband does not believe in self help. I am here again to remind myself of the concepts and to attempt to use them better.

Thank you for this. You are right.

Based on what you've said above about your husband's personality changes due to illness, perhaps its not the actual words you choose but the fact that he feels he is being put in the wrong.

For example, you say "I would like for us to go see the new movie", and you husband doesn't want to, so he says "Its always about what you want isn't it!"

Also, you say that your husband is an INTJ. Have you tried to figure out what his personality type is now after his brain injury?

I believe his state of depression and altered perceptions are aggrivating things, however I am not a patient person and I know I am an idealist. I want people to do the right thing. I set high standards for myself and others and I know that I'm not as good as I think I am (or pretend to be online). That's why I'm back, to be certain I'm doing my part towards restoring emotional intimacy.

He is becoming more of an "S", ISTJ, to the point that he's labeled the shelves in the refrigerator so everyone puts things back in the right place. We laugh about it, because I really don't care where things go and I am tempted to ignore the labels, however he also has short-term memory issues, so keeping things organized really helps him. He's not just being "anal". He does get very angry, however, if the jam is put on the wrong shelf. This is part of the personality change. He says his family doesn't respect him because we don't put things away the way he wants them.

Sure.


Honestly, I don't know how I've worded this issue, over and over, in the recent past, but this is what I will say tonight,

"I would like to discuss our banking and bill payment system. Would you like to talk about it now or pick another time?"

Hubby has been responsible for this task for several years. Its not my preference, I believe we should do this together, however I know this makes him feel manly and so I let him do it. (This was an issue in my first marriage, too, and so I've learned to let it go and let Hubby be "the man" in this instance.) He is now making mistakes with our money, however, and I am tired of the bank calling me at work to fix problems he's created, so this is something we must do together from now on.

As always, I'm quite certain he'll avoid the conversation again and say "we'll talk later" and then not bring it up again. I'll be the one to put the issue back on the table and he'll tell me that I'm making him angry.

I don't want to go behind his back and take his control off of our accounts, but I may have no choice.

I am having a hard time expressing my feelings, too, as it seems that whatever I say my DH gets defensive and angry. I have not been successful using I statements for the same reason - when I say "I feel..." he responds with "Oh yeah? How do you think I feel????"

"I would like to discuss, X, would you like to discuss this now, or pick another time?"

Regarding this suggestion, this implies that we have to discuss it. I'm a bit confused about how to negotiate when one person doesn't want to, because if you make the other person negotiate then you are making a selfish demand.

If the other person chooses not to negotiate, despite the fact that the negotiations would make the other partner feel better, then they are choosing independent behavior.

If you were following the POJA then neither spouse would have an enthusiastic agreement, if the question is whether or not to even have negotiations at all. What do you do then???