Yes, he did hurt you. Very much. You just don't realize it yet.

Melody if you have anything to offer to my "13 month" thread I would appreciate it. I've always respected your opinions on here. I tried to PM you but it's turned off.

Well, BH and I had a chat last night. He read my posts yesterday (even though he knew he shouldn't) - but I understand the curiousity. He wanted to know what mess he was coming home to - I've been up and down lately I know he was looking for some warning. What he read was really hard on him and he regretted reading it almost immediately. But I knew he had and was already preparing to talk about it.

Anyway, we realized that we are in a State of Withdrawal and avoiding conflict. Neither one of us wants to talk - for our own reasons:
- First, I don't want to bring it all up and hurt him more unless he is willing to hear it (so I think he should initiate).
- Second, he is getting tired of hearing me cut him down (don't blame him).
- Third, he is fearful that starting to talk is just the beginning of the end.

So, we make nice and avoid everything. It is obviously not working.

But, on the bright side, we did talk a lot last night. He asked a lot of questions about the A and I answered them honestly. I was unsure if I should be volunteering info that he hasn't directly asked or keep it to myself until he brings it up. I don't want to hide it, but I also don't want to spring things on him unless he is ready for it. Is this the trickle truth I've been reading about? I will tell him everything, I just want him to be ready for it.

We talked about some heavy stuff and by the end I have to admit I felt a lot closer to him. Shopping and doing crosswords are fun, but they are not intimate. I thrive on intimate conversation and I got some last night so I am feeling much better. I was even comfortable spooning him in bed last night - no funny business, just affection.

But I also told him the truth about my feelings for OM and how I am still very sexually attracted to him. This really bothers BH because he feels very inadequate now. Maybe our SF was fine before, but I have gained more experience with OM and want different things. Is it fair of me to request them of BH or is that a terrible insult ("I want you to be more like OM")?


I am so sorry about that. Personally, I find DJ are really tough to avoid and you did a great job handling it better. My guess is he felt guilty about not calling earlier and perhaps the text is a veiled apology.


I hear ya sister. Fear is a biggie.

Not fit for anyone, eh? Sounds like something I would say. But reading it coming from someone else makes me realize how untrue it is. Either you can change to be who you want to be and who your H needs, or you can find someone that does make you happy (just make sure you follow MB).

One of the things we opened up last night was my vast sexual history (compared to BH). I was quite promiscuous and not terribly respectful of myself, but I chalked it up to being a young, sexually liberated woman. Problem is, I am now a married woman with children and I shouldn't be acting that way anymore. But I don't feel any older or more mature and still want my freedom to behave that way. BH doesn't understand because I am his one and only. I knew that and when I married him, so I guess I knowingly took on the sole responsibility of teaching him. I neglected that duty and left him alone in the dust - how do I expect him to catch up now?

STOP TALKING ABOUT OM!!!

Every time you talk about other man your feelings for him surfaces! Do you not see this???

That is why I told you in my last post NOT to think or talk about other man when you start thinking about him start thinking about your DH.

What is wrong with you?

You are literally self sabotaging your marriage every time you get on here and post something about OM.

If you want your marriage to work then...

STOP THINKING ABOUT OM!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You can not do that until you start gaining control of your though process otherwise...

What you think about you'll bring about.

Good luck.

P.S the only time you should talk about him is with your husband being open and honest! but stop talking about OM on here! We do not give a rats @$$ about him, so stop it!

I really believed it. I thought he was more likely to leave than I was. The last couple of months before OMW found out it felt like we were getting much closer to making a decision and I think if she hadn't, things might have gone very differently.



I hope you are right.

In my last post I recommend you tell your husband what your thinking about what you are feeling because of exactly this!! Once you open up to him and tell him everything you will start falling back in love with him.

OH. MY. FREAKING. GOD.

10 years Athena. 10 freaking years. If the jerkwad can't make the freaking decision in 10 years, what makes you think he ever would?

Don't you have ANY value in yourself, woman?

Pull your damn head out of your cooter. You were a playtoy, and he got caught playing.

End. of. story.

He had 10 years to leave his wife for you. If he wanted to make that decision it would have made no difference if his wife found out.

I would literally need to move to another country that doesn't speak english to avoid triggers for OM. I've known him for 1/3 of my life and he's been involved in so many aspects of it. I can get rid of the "stuff", but I can't dump my hobbies (he was a big supporter of my artistic abilities) or some of our shared interests (the planet Mars).

In a psychology course at University I remember learning that when a person is trying to give up an addiction like smoking, in the beginning the will power is very high. While it is high, you should not avoid the triggers that made you want to smoke - go to the old places, hang out with the old people - but use your strength to not smoke. This will help break the connection between the places/people and the smoking so that later on when your resolve is a lot less, you won't be triggered into slipping up. It is about conditioning yourself to remove the trigger.

I'm not saying that as an excuse, I am just relaying something I think has some value.

So, to incorporate that - I would get rid of as many triggers as possible, but the ones I can't get rid of, use my resolve to think of something other than OM when I am around/involved in them. Hopefully it will break the connection and conditioning so those things don't trigger thinking about him anymore.



He left the site where I work, but is still employed by the same company. While it helps that I don't see him anymore, there are still possibilities for running into each other. It is a relatively small town as far as our jobs go, so even if one of us quit, we may encounter each other one day.

So far, BH and I are ok with this (we POJA'd it) and will deal with any issues as they come up. In fact, I had to let BH know the other day that someone else in the company needed info from me and requested I also CC OM. There was no personal contact (just business), so I felt ok with it. I doubt there will ever need to be any personal contact and I would expect OM to also be doing his hardest to avoid it too (I am assuming he and OMW are working on things in a similar fashion).

BH and I aren't the "just do it" type of people, so any major change would need to take some time. I think if things start to feel uncomfortable, we will address it. But I do have my resume up-to-date and some names to call if I need to hit the eject button.

Moving is a very undesirable option as we chose this location and built our dream house. We are close to family and our kids are settled. I do understand the "extraordinary measures" and if they become necessary, then we'll POJA that too.

oh no. Please don't bring the remnants of the pig pen into your marriage. You will regret it when your fog wears off. Barnyard acts will keep you both triggered. A better alternative is to find creative ways of making love that you both enjoy that are unique to your marriage.

Don't emulate a failed relationship, Athena. The goal here is to create a romantic, passionate marriage, not emulate a FAILED filthy affair.

I should clarify something. When I said 10 years of EA, perhaps I was unclear in the definition of EA. We had a very close friendship and very intimate talks, but we didn't declare any feelings at that time. We had moments of sexual tension, but we each thought we were the only ones experiencing them.

About 4 years ago, the EA officially started. We said the words and acknowledged something between us. But we didn't go PA for quite a while.

It probably doesn't make a difference. The flirting and desire was there for most of the relationship - the full 10+ years.



I have to admit, I hear your words, but they are not resonating with me (yet). I can see how it looks, but that's not how it felt. It may take a while for me to see it that way.

This is bad advice that is not based on simple logic. It doesn't comprehend that one does not have willpower over their addiction in the first place. If they had willpower, they wouldn't have been addicted. An addict has already lost the battle of willpower, so this premise misses that point.

It does not make an alcoholic stronger by sitting around a bar, it makes him vulnerable to his addiction and more likely that he will pick up the drink again. If I sit in the bar and stare at a drink all day, that drink stays top of mind. And eventually the weak moment will collide with opportunity and I am off and drinking again. If I had willpower over booze, I wouldn't be an alcoholic in the first place.

So no, trying to depend on will power to prevent relapses is a fools game that is only tempting fate. It is a test of stupidity. Just ask anyone who has successfully recovered from an addiction.


I would strongly suggest you move if you are serious about recovering your marriage. Any encounter will put you back to day 1 of recovery and dramatically increases the risk of a resumed affair. So, I would not only QUIT, I would make plans to move since, by your own admission, it is a small town.

And I bet you even drive by his house and do other things to trigger yourself, don't you? Are you looking up his facebook page every day?

Dr. Harley in Coping with Infidelity: Part 2
How Should Affairs End?


Never see or communicate with a former lover

Once an affair is first revealed, whether it's discovered or admitted, the victimized spouse is usually in a state of shock. The first reaction is usually panic, but it's quickly followed by anger. Divorce and sometimes even murder are contemplated. But after some time passes (usually about three weeks), most couples decide that they will try to pull together and save their marriage.

The one having an affair is in no position to bargain, but he or she usually tries anyway. The bargaining effort usually boils down to somehow keeping the lover in the loop. You'd think that the unfaithful spouse would be so aware of his or her weaknesses, and so aware of the pain inflicted, that every effort would be made to avoid further contact with the lover as an act of thoughtfulness to the stunned spouse. But instead, the unfaithful spouse argues that the relationship was "only sexual" or was "emotional but not sexual" or some other peculiar description to prove that continued contact with the lover would be okay.

Most victimized spouses intuitively understand that all contact with a lover must end for life. Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to someone who has been through he11. What victimized spouse would ever want to know that his or her spouse is seeing or communicating with a former lover at work or in some other activity?

In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure.

<snip>

We don't know if R.J. still sees his lover, but he says he has broken off all contact. In many cases where a person is still in town, that's hard to prove. But one thing's for sure, if he ever does see his lover, it will put him in a state of perpetual withdrawal from his addiction, and make the resolution of his marriage essentially impossible. In fact, one of the reasons he is not recovering after three months of separation may be that he is not being truthful about the separation.

Entire article at: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html

How to Survive an Affair chapter in HIS NEEDS, HER NEEDS
p. 177

...I have seen husbands build new and wonderful relationships with their wives but then go back to their lovers after five or six years of what appeared to be marital bliss. When I ask them why, they inevitably tell me they miss the woman terribly and still love her. At the same time they stoutly affirm they love their wives dearly and would not think of leaving them.

I believe a man like this has told the truth. He is hopelessly entangled and needs all the help possible to be kept away from his lover and stay faithful to his wife. I often recommend that a man once involved in an affair come in to see me every three to six months on an indefinite basis, just to talk about how things are going and to let me know how successfully he has stayed away from his lover. He must resign himself to a lifetime without her. HE MUST CERTAINLY NOT WORK WITH HIS FORMER LOVER AND SHOULD PROBABLY LIVE IN SOME OTHER CITY OR STATE. Even with those restrictions the desire for her company persists...

Athena, first time to post on your thread. When I look back at your earlier threads it seems you were more enthusiatic about recovery. Perhaps you should read your comments on physcology course in your latest post again. Are you really trying to condition yourself?????

What you've stated above makes absolutely no sense. As a smoker who's quit and started back up several times I will tell you that staying away from the triggers for smoking is a must in the beginning. I loved to smoke when I had a cup of coffee or a beer. Trying to quit while still endulging in those things was impossible. I only quit by getting rid of those triggers also. And guess what, after not smoking for 10 years guess what triggered me starting again. Yup beer and coffee. I actually quit drinking alchohol and coffee in order to stop smoking. 10 years passed and I decided to have a beer. I was smoking within 30 minutes.

You also said you understand "extraordinary measures" You may understand what they need to be, as you are addressing the required areas, but WHAT YOU DON"T UNDERSTAND IS THE ABSOLUTE NECESSITY FOR THEM.

JMHO
LS4

Well.... Helooooooooooooooooooo, Sue.

I hate to tell you this, but you're going to have to move if you hope to have any chance of recovering your M. Pretty much everything you've written on this thread is evidence that you will not ever leave the withdrawal stage of your A as long as you are working for the same company as OM, emailing him, leaving open the constant possibility of renewed contact, and living in the same small town that he lives in. I'm sorry, but that just won't ever work. It's not working. That is blatantly obvious to anyone's who's dealt with this sort of thing for any length of time.

Your H sounds a lot like mine. He's sort of passive. Sort of wishy-washy. He's just glad you're staying. He doesn't really want to talk about it. He doesn't want to set up any sort of boundaries (like insisting you leave a job that may involve contact with OM or moving) because he's afraid he'll make you angry and you'll leave. It's impossible to POJA with someone like this, because they'll pretty much go along with anything you say. Fear of you leaving seems to be their motivating factor in all of this.

It doesn't matter if you can get your H to agree to any of this. My H agreed to allow continuing contact with the OM long after the A ended for the sake of our OC. Heck, I could probably still be talking to him if I wanted to. But my M never would have entered the R stage. I never would have given myself the opportunity to fall back in love with my H. Truth be told, the way my H reacted to my A has made R and falling back in love very difficult for me. It's difficult to respect someone who doesn't stand up for their M or their family.

Does your H have a thread on this site? If not, send him here and tell him to start one. He needs a lot of help and guidance as well.

All I know is, you will keep triggering as long as you stay in your current house, in your current job, in your current town. More than likely, your A will resume at some point. Is your "dream" house really worth risking that?

When?


What?

Seriously ... what experience is so unique with one man that a woman cannot enjoy the experience with another man? I know of none.


Yes

What man wouldn't want to experience new and different things with his wife?


The comparison doesn't need to be made in your mind nor does it need to be stated.

If you have a desire in the SF department, why not speak it?

People cannot read minds. Your husband cannot read your mind.

Keeping silent isn't something a sexually liberated woman does.


What way? Please elaborate.

I normally wouldn't ask such personal questions, but I believe it's very important here.

It seems that you view yourself as a completely unique sexual being that needs special, extraordinary care to be fulfilled. (I say this because I know the type.)

You need to understand that you're not all that unique, athena. You are not unique, your A was not unique, the OM was not unique, the sex you had was not unique, you sexual needs are quite likely not unique at all.

All that specialness and uniqueness are just more lies waywards make themselves believe to justify their rotten actions.

The sooner you come to this realization, the better off you'll be.

Maybe that works for some people. I know it didn't for me If you had the 'strength' it wouldn't have happened in the first place, right?

At best, I would consider this faulty logic. Let's rephrase what this concept actually is:

Let's say your 'bad habit' is alcohol. You are powerless over it. You decide to stop drinking. You go to the bar (trigger) with your friends and watch them laughing and holding their drinks (trigger). You order a Coke and immediately feel deprived (trigger). You watch your friends order pretzels and another round (trigger). They're having a great time, betting buzzed (trigger) and making silly jokes while they're getting comfortably numb (trigger).

Yikes! All those triggers! And what are you? POWERLESS. You don't HAVE the strength. You are an addict. The odds are very, very good that you will eventually relapse if you remain in this environment.

Now let's do something else.
The gang is meeting up after work for a couple of cold ones. (trigger) They invite you. You decline - you're on your way to meet your H for dinner and a movie.

End of trigger.

You may never be able to go into a bar again. It may have to be a boundary you set for yourself. But look at what you did do - you replaced that bad habit/trigger with a new, good one. Because you agree that you are powerless over that old, bad habit.

Well said, maritalbliss.

The same thing goes for negative thoughts, athena.

And pinning away in fantasyland about your OM is very negative and destructive.

You need to actively put an end to warm, fuzzy thoughts about your OM. You need to replace those destructive thoughts with positive thoughts.

Maybe you shouldn't replace thoughts about the OM with thoughts about your H at this point because you will make comparisons.

Instead, make yourself a list of positive thoughts (a vacation, your kids, a happy place ... various things) that you can literally pull out and read, and force yourself think of something else EVERY TIME you think about OM.

(Advice courtesy of Steve Harley who recommended that I do this every time I began to think about my H's A.)

You can control your thoughts, athena. Train yourself to think differently.

P.S. I thought it was hopeless, too. I was wrong.

Which is more important? Your hobbies or your marriage? People here have quit jobs, moved, given up hobbies - all in the cause of saving their marriages.

Find new hobbies you and your BH can do together. There's a recreational companionship worksheet on this site that you can both fill out. You might be surprised to find out what he's interested in, and it's great for sparking discussion.

As for the sex issue - you knowingly married a virgin when you were the one who was more sexually experienced. If you expect him to be able to satisfy you sexually, it is your responsibility to teach him how, or at least tell him what skills he needs to research on his own. Did you ever even give him a chance?

You can be wild, adventurous, and kinky....with your husband!