JL

Could I ask you a question.

I feel a lot of rage towards his mother, I feel like she has won.

I am annoyed at the amount of control she has had over our relationship. I am annoyed that my H could not see this.

I am finding it difficult to gain perspective on this, and this 'anger' boils up inside me a lot and did when we were together.

When H got back with me last year, she would hardly have anything to do with him. She would not come to the house or call the house, and hardly saw him. There have been many things, but my H got angry with her before the wedding as she completely turned a cold shoulder on it. When my H told his mother and brother we were getting back together, they both told him he was doing the wrong thing and hardly spoke to him.

H oldest brother, has a handle on the situation, he has moved far away and makes it clear his wife is his priority and won't tolerate any of her manipulative behaviour.

I feel like she is a narcisstic mother, as every description fits this. I know I created this mess, but she has been against us since day 1 and she probably say how much he loved me.

I don't know how to get a handle on this one. When I spoke to SH he said that H told him his family were anti-reconciliation.

I just feel like I am fighting a losing battle here.

Thanks, Harmony.

Harmony,

I still have many questions about my whole situation and my therapist always reminds me that I should just stop trying to make sense of other people's decisions, he told me that I can't do that, their decisions in life don't have anything to do with me and everything to do with who they are..........
I think anger is part of the grieving process, acceptance is a big part of putting that to rest, accepting them for who they are and accepting the fact that others have every right to be who they want to be even if we don't like it.........
Be grateful she is out of your life, this is the new Harmony, you don't need people in your life that don't have your best interests at heart...........
She hasn't won anything, she still is that narcissistic person, you on the other hand are realizing the difference.............
Bravo..............free yourself from the anger ...........

Harmony,

Are you annoyed at the amount of control she had over the relationship, over your H or over you? Why does it bother you that H could not see this?

Let' talk about this for a moment. If he were reared with his mother controlling and inserting herself into his life, why would he expect things to change when he dated and married you? You were his W not his mother.

The woman is who she is. Let's say she is very controlling. It is your H that let her have the control. It is you that let her have the control.

She did not have any say in you deciding to cope with things by having an A.

You think she won? I think it is a matter of perspective. I think she lost. Her son was terribly hurt by your actions, so her being "right" about you, cost her in that regard. Her son is very likely to never find a girl that mother approves of, unless she cow tow's to the mother, and then your H would not be happy because he is married to a spineless woman. If he does bring home a woman his mother doesn't approve of, he will be no happier than he was with you, due to her interference.

Point, now if her goal was to make her son miserable, she has won. If her goal was for her son to be happy and in a healthy marriage, then she has lost. Worse to the extent that she has control of him, he will never be happy. I just don't see much of a win for her, given how she acts and assuming she wants him happy. Him being happy would entail him moving away from Mom, and that will not make her happy either.

She did not support the marriage, but in reality neither did either of you. His behavior, your choice of coping skills did not support this marriage. YOu are learning and growing and becoming a woman that most Mom's would like for their son to marry. Keep it up and you will win...you will end up happy with the right man.

You asked about your plan B letter. My thought is to take out the paragraph that mentions his behavior. It brings up his defenses. You want him focused on the list of accomplishments you need to see for recovery. He may say, "well, this is easy I want done with this" and not do any of them. But, you wont' know if you don't tell him.

My personal thought is when you give him his list of "to do" items, you mention that you have done some of them and are willing to join him in all of them. Just sort of a "the door is open" statement for your own continued growth.

Hopefully others will come along and offer their advice. Jessie and CP are giving you excellent advice.

God Bless,

JL

MIL Situation:

Thanks JL and Jessi, I really appreciate your perspective on the situation.

I guess your right that she hasn't really 'won' anything. If she truly wanted her son to be happy she would have got right behind this marriage and after the affair I would have been round there like a shot, apologising for my horrendous behaviour. I do think the situation was a factor in how unhappy I was pre affair. I do remember though sitting down with H before we got married and saying you understand don't you that your mother and I don't really gel? I did try and address it, in the only way I knew how.

I do hope my DH comes round. I think he has it in him I really do. I knew he always had it in him, I just hope I didn't kill that spirit through my actions. I pray he comes round.

Boundary work:

The boundary work has changed my life a great deal. Although, it does seem to be a boundary free society!!

It seems all sorts is going on around me, which shows where folks have had a lack of boundaries, it feels like I am a fly on the wall to stuff I already knew about!

Sometimes I get annoyed I didn't learn a lot of this stuff whilst I was growing up, I just feel as though maybe I wouldn't be in the mess I am in. It has just shown me how important it is to be a 'good parent'. It makes me laugh when people keep saying to me about my friend who had the illegitimate child with the married man, and people keep saying ooooh she is going to make a wonderful mum, hmm i beg to differ, but what can you say?

Maybe, this whole thing with the affair, was meant to be in some sick and twisted way, maybe it was inevitable at some point something like this would happen and would bring me here and learn all this stuff.

Do you think people with lackof boundaries attract those kind of people too? Cause I feel surrounded by them! Its funny though on my new course I ahev met some really nice girls who seem well, 'normal'!! Do you know what I mean?

Anyway rambling thoughts. I hope I am not heading for the shrink cell.

Night all.

I have very strong boundaries and yet married a man with none. I am super careful now who I go out with and call a friend. If the person has cheated or has had problems with bounderies I choose to not be friends with her. I just rather be alone than in bad company. It is true, everybody nowdays seems to be doing things that are not right and everybody condones it...but then, it is a choice. I choose not to live a life that hurts others if I can help it.
And I will try to help it as much as possible.
blesssing

This whole post was right on IMO also, but here is the point of why you must keep away from her, because she is an enemy to your marriage.

This was one of the main problems plaguing your marriage from the start. It was one of the first areas you talked about when you started posting, and we discussed extensivly how his Mom, and His Dad, and thier whole family dynamic had messed up your Husband, and he wouldn't, couldn't see it. I remember JL talking about it as well as other here.

At the beginning, when we suggested the big Guns in an attempt at reconciliation, I for one said Independant counseling should be part of any conditions for contact in a Plan B letter.


Why didn't I put it in as a suggestion now? I felt that if he could not see by himself that his mothers poison for his marriage could not be listened to after he was alone for awhile, and saw the plain facts and clear plans in your new plan B, then he just might be lost. Add to that his behavior IS calming down as to the OW and he still is interested in you.

He is not as foolish, cruel, and wild as he was back then, and he shows some promise.

It might take Joe Shmoe a year after recovery to see how his MIL effects his W. It would come with a willing heart to make his W his priority instead of old ties.

Here it is from Genesis the first book of the Bible. Its wisdom speaks especially to us who have felt the sting of misplaced loyaltys.

Genesis 2:24
Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
Genesis 2:23-25

Tear it down a little, It is talking about accually doing something and changing priorities. New places of relationship and concerns, moving on and becoming free from the parents, thier emotional makeup, problems, phobias, and even thier covering, protection, and emotional bond.

The loyalties and prioritys, not love and honor for them, respect can still be given them, but I respect a rattlesnake, I don't try to reason with them or let them bite me. An adult only honors what makes sense with another adult, and if Mommy and Daddy are still treating thier grown Son like a child and in fact themselves are messed up, its up to the child to "leave them" in that way too.

How would a loving son taking care of his parent in old age suffering dementia honor them if they said, "Call the army! The cat is taking over again!"? I think he would comfort them but I doubt he would call the police.

We discussed this about how WH has allways had to go along with his controlling Mom before, and how her husband never stood up to her either. Also you saw how he treated you like he treated Mom. Ignored her demands and went behind her back just taking without asking, because he was so sure the answer was no, negative, personnally degrading and unsupportive. It made it also clear he thought you treated him like Mom did, in reality he jumped there in his fear and projected those feelings on you, to support his habit of acting the way he did.

Because he could, even though he knows its wrong. He didn't marry you because you were like his Mom. He doesn't even like how she treats him. Or he wouldn't be "accusing you" of being like her. I bet he felt being with you would save him from that fate, because you were so different, but he needs to do his part in saving himself, it a team effort now, because you are one, and are each others priorities.

"become one flesh" ---Well thats easy to see, and cleaving has more to do than sex, it is cleaving emotionally also. In Christianity the "Flesh" is our human weakness, our emotions dictating our actions and thinking, instead of our thinking and actions controlling our emotions.

It takes reason and constant communication with truth for an individual to deal with their own emotions in good times or bad,(loving a dark plan B huh?), why would it not take the same and added to that communication with the marriage partner in the same truth and reason to maintain emotional stability and peace. Especially in hard times, but in good times the joy can be shared.

His Mom is poison to his marriage and it seems to him also. Right now she has him a "I told you so" grip because the venom she spews has done its job on him, and "Daddy" doesn't seem to care enough to stand up to her either and by example set WH free either.

I felt that if he could just see that, and acknowledge that he must ignore them/her, and find his own way, and his hope for the marriage he must have dreamed about at one time is brought back to life through your guidance in the plan of reconciliation laid out in the plan B letter, and his time alone to come to the end of himself, well maybe he would leave them behind and seek therapy to handle the triggers he must feel, in time, as you work on your marriage.

His Mother, his IB behavior habits, and denial must be seen by him and he must fight them actively while being supported. I know at one time you were willing to support him, and you thought just loving him might change all that, but insisting he be the man he can be is loving him too, and that has been a painful lesson most have learned the hard way. It takes a lot of love to do a plan B and forgive them for being so cruel and weak in thier blindness, even to watch them throw away what at first feels like you, but in reality its running away from themselves, and know its for them you stand for what is right in relationship, even if they never see it.

But its for you too, because doing what is right makes you stronger, and standing alone as it seems in this mess accually brings you closer to the truths we all must deal with, and you find you are not alone really. Together in a common goal but uniquely you just the same. Individual but united.

I think because your WH is so damaged it gives him an even BETTER chance of seeing that, and becoming even a more real and honest person about relationships. He just hasn't hit his rock bottom yet and he needs a guiding light. Your doing your best to help him, he will never let you be his leader, but I bet he might let you be his partner, when he finnally admits to himself he let this happen too.

There is nothing stopping you from waiting this out Harmony. You will not be happy getting married because your bio-clock is ticking and you want the status quo. I know there is more to you than that dear, and you know there is more to WH than IB and denial.

You will get what you put into it right? You are in the unigue position to see the pain of an A and also understand how much crap had to happen to get to that point. You are now learning and hanging out here with people who have built and recovered thier marriages. You are to smart to run out and fall head over heels in love without understanding in all relationships there comes a time when the real person you connected with is revealed with all thier flaws and blindspots.

Many people will tell you they love thier spouse because of thier scars and flaws. Its said God loves us that way, and not because he has to, but because he loves us he reachs down to touch us and bring us out of the darkness of our lonliness and fear. That the truth will set us free, and the hard things we endure are for our own good. The rules are for our protection from ourselves, they set us free from trying to change what is real to fit our own plans which we derived from our own shortsighted wisdom.

As smart as we might be, and even with good intentions and hard work, things get messed up and we see that we did it, were selfish all along, and yet we can find in the honest and brave in this world, or within the scriptures many times, others who had followed that same blind path. Then we can ask how to get out of the pit we have fallen in, and get the truth.

Maybe not the facts, dont confuse that with the truth. I will give an example. A fact is something proven, an indisputable reality all can see. Documented, coraborated evidence. Its a fact the sun came up and went down today. Is it the truth it will come up tommorrow? It wont be a fact until it does.

The bible said the world was round before Magellan sailed around it and proved it in fact.

You will need faith if your marriage is to be recovered, and live in truth as the facts develop. This goes for both of you

Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not yet seen.


How can hoped for things be a substance? How can something not seen be evidence?

God is in the recovery business Harm, and He is working in you and your WH, even in the pain and frustration. The truth shared here is sweet about what marriage should/could be, and even the people who do not have a deep background in scripture still have the deep capacity to love and recognize it when the truth is revealed that we all need it. Thats how I became a believer, when truths I allready knew were revealed to me in the bible when I had already thought I knew so much, and I was privy to unique knowledge. I was raised Christian and came from a strong Baptist background, but I had been away for years and thought I knew what it was all about. I was mistaking religion for God, just like facts for truth.

Sorry if I sound preachy, but not really, I'm just being politically correct by apoligizing lol.
I really beleive you two have a chance to recover, but its allways up to you two, and one might have to be the strong one who leads the other back. I want to encourage you in recovery, and in faith beyond what you see just for a while, as you explore yourself and what you want out of life, and what you will fight for. Like JL said before, any wife that his Mom would like would be spineless anyway. A Plan B will force him to be alone and see that he is not married to her, and your clear plan to restore love, grow together, and protect your marriage will not only be a gift that stands eternally for his own good, but it will bless you at the same time.

I didn't ask you to put anything about his Mom in the list for plan B because I think it is something so deep maybe he cannot see it, but yes it has to be dealt with, and you will need a lot of patience, faith and hard work to eventually overcome it. Maybe it would be wiser to deal with that in therapy with DR H, once you both are in that safe place.

I am with ya atena. The company you keep right? I think you can trade equally the words "strong boundaries" with "self respect" and there are just some lines I will not cross. Ever since I grew out of being able to be taunted by the "I dare you to, are you chicken?" and realized I had nothing to prove.

Ever heard the saying, "Opposites attract, be don"t stay together"? A polite way that a therapist said that to me and my late wife was,"You compliment each other"

Jeez Semantics..

Ouch it hurts today. 2 weeks dark and it hurts.

Was tempted to text him this morning, saying I love you please come home. I didn't though.

I am going skiing next week, and would be much rather going with him. I am worried that because I broke Plan B, that the 2nd time it isn't as effective.

I forgot to mention that the 2 OW he was 'friends' with, will no longer speak to him. He basically used them and they thought that once we 'broke up' then he would want to be with them.

I haven't given him the Plan B letter yet, but will try and do today or tomorrow.

We have not slept in the same bed together since March last year, and he has been out of the house for 2 1/2 months .

Stay strong, Harmony. I understand the temptation to contact him but you know it's for the best that you don't. Get busy with the rest of your day and put him out of your mind. (Much easier said than done.) My WH has been gone from our home for 3.5 months. I understand the daily pain. {{{Harmony}}}

Harmony
You have really turned the corner on understanding the reasons behind plan B.

I am happy for you about that.

Keep up the good fight.

Hi

Thanks for your support Meggin and Barbie.

It really does hurt today.

I just keep thinking he is never going to want to come back and that it is all totally hopeless

I know this is negative thinking but I feel as though he just doesn't want me and I am not getting the message.

I broke no contact by checking his mates FB profile to see if there was any pics of there snowboard trip. I just keep thinking he is going to meet someone so much better and it is going to destroy me.

Hi Harmony,

I know it hurts but time to change your thinking today, look at the Plan B as part of the bigger plan, a stepping stone, you can't get caught up in today..........
The end result for the right reasons that is what you want.........
Now get out there have some fun................your thoughts will pass if you keep yourself busy......................
Have a happy Harmony Day.................

So is it official? Has the letter been finished and sent?

no not yet Constant.

I am going to leave it in the letter box for him. I have started forwarding his post to his house but when I go away next week he may stop by to pick up his post. The letter box is on the side of the house, and he has a key for that so gets his mail that way.

I am really dreading giving him the letter, it feels pointless and he will hate it. POssible love buster?

I wouldnt worry about this as an LB. Hes mad because of his own guilt. Did you DJ? or AO? then I wouldnt worry to much about it. Now if you said what you are really thinking (sleezy scumbag) then that would be an LB.

Thanks Wheels.

I guess I am just really concerned that I am going against Steves advice.

When I spoke to SH on the 21st Dec, I told him that I had seen quite a bit of my H. SH told me to ask my H about a plan for us both to rebuild the marriage. I did this and H said OK lets talk in the New Year.

I felt annoyed as I should sit here and wait for him to go off and plan all his holidays and then wait for his call in the New Year. Also not convinced he is still not seeing OW.

Hence back into Plan B.

Just worried that I have made a mistake and should have said to H go enjoy your new year break and lets talk in the New Year. It just felt wrong that I should have to twist his arm into coming back. So I went back into Plan B.



Its all so confusing knowing what the right thing is to do.

Harmony,

Have you gotten divorce papers from him? Has he had a lawyer contact you? As he suggested you get a lawyer? Has he done anything to suggest he is actually finished with this marriage?

I don't see it in your posts. I suggest that you give him the plan B letter which is after all a road map back to the relationship. If he decides to go off road, and end it, he does.

Quit borrowing trouble. You don't know what he is thinking, but you do know that he has taken no actions to officially end this marriage.

JL

Hi Harmony,
Just started Plan B, well tried to anyway. TWO times WH did the 'pop in'(show up unexpected, didn't know if you knew what that meant :D). It's hard, and hurts. It seems to hurt worse when I see him. It's like, when we are together...old times...we are together, know what I mean. But that's only in MY head. His head, both of them - (U.S. slang, know that one? guess if you don't)are with OW. I wish I could pop his head off, extract his brain, go to the local market, buy a NEW IMPROVED brain, pop it back in and voila! No more fog, no more lies, no more why's. Silly thinking.

I too keep thinking he's never going to want to come back and it's totally hopeless. Seriously, why would he? I think the only way to have him want to come back, change his ways, work on this M, is with Plan B. That he wants freedom and wants no responsibilities, his wants are not his needs. I truly beleive in my heart of hearts that WH and I can have a happy M. Do you beleive that Harmony? Then you have to MAKE IT HAPPEN.

Your H is going to meet someone better than you? Don't distract yourself from Plan B with thinking that.

I still think she should just go ahead and file for a divorce and if and I mean a BIG IF he wants to recover he should just date her

This is a new year perfect time to get a new life.

He will never file why should he? He has the best of both worlds he can have fun now and when he's ready he can go back home and his wife will be waiting...really? Is that what you want??

But him going off is what you agreed upon right? You have no proof he is seeing OW, so get a PI and find out. He is still your Husband legally, and you have a right.

The converstaion as I understood it was that things went better, but you BOTH wanted some time apart, and he agreed he did too.

It doesn't seem he broke aany promises.


Thought you were planning that anyway and wanted that and it was agreed upon by both. Honestly don't see a new development that forced you back into B, it all seems par.


Again I thought when you talked to him right around your fathers passing, you both agreed on time apart. To you its a plan B with support from us. With him its paln throw it all up in tha air with no plan. But I thought that was settled with you. Or is the lonliness getting to your imagination? Do you really think he is having the time of his life? Are you jealous he is out acting like he is single when he is married and like a little boy?


Right now I think the order of the day is do nothing after the plan letter and decompress a little.

You said you believe WH has it in him to be the Husband you need. Do you? You go back and forth Harm, if you want to recover then you have to grab a plan and stick to it faithfully. Can you?

I'm sorry you are here and this is so tough on you.

How many miles today? Maybe you should take up boxing like scotty to get rid of tension and aggresstion.

Hope you feel better, BTW did you read the real long post I put up last night?