Your H sounds a lot like mine. He's sort of passive. Sort of wishy-washy. He's just glad you're staying. He doesn't really want to talk about it. He doesn't want to set up any sort of boundaries (like insisting you leave a job that may involve contact with OM or moving) because he's afraid he'll make you angry and you'll leave. It's impossible to POJA with someone like this, because they'll pretty much go along with anything you say. Fear of you leaving seems to be their motivating factor in all of this.

It doesn't matter if you can get your H to agree to any of this. My H agreed to allow continuing contact with the OM long after the A ended for the sake of our OC. Heck, I could probably still be talking to him if I wanted to. But my M never would have entered the R stage. I never would have given myself the opportunity to fall back in love with my H. Truth be told, the way my H reacted to my A has made R and falling back in love very difficult for me. It's difficult to respect someone who doesn't stand up for their M or their family.

Does your H have a thread on this site? If not, send him here and tell him to start one. He needs a lot of help and guidance as well.

Well.... Helooooooooooooooooooo, Sue.

Not sure I get that reference ...

Athena, when you were taking your psychology courses, do you remember reading anything about people who have a fear of intimacy?

I am not trying to make a diagnosis here, but it might be something for you to explore.

Affairs set up a false sense of intimacy. They are "safer" for those who fear intimacy, because any rejection can be viewed as a result of the situation rather than an affront to personal vulnerabilities.

It is actually in the most valued relationships that a person with a fear of intimacy has trouble being vulnerable and expressing needs.

Well.... Helooooooooooooooooooo, Sue.

Not sure I get that reference ...

It's from Dr Harley's book, 'Surviving an Affair'. Have you read it?

I do see your point. Whenever I pushed away from OM and he asked about it, I justified it because we were doing something wrong - I always had an easy out.

My OM didn't cheat on me -

I believe he wanted to leave his marriage. But that never happened, so I guess either he never really wanted to leave OR he let me go because he knew I felt I needed to try and fix things.

Right now, I believe the latter.

Maybe our SF was fine before

When?

but I have gained more experience with OM and want different things.

What?

Seriously ... what experience is so unique with one man that a woman cannot enjoy the experience with another man? I know of none.

Is it fair of me to request them of BH

Yes

What man wouldn't want to experience new and different things with his wife?

or is that a terrible insult ("I want you to be more like OM")?

The comparison doesn't need to be made in your mind nor does it need to be stated.

If you have a desire in the SF department, why not speak it?

People cannot read minds. Your husband cannot read your mind.

Keeping silent isn't something a sexually liberated woman does.

I was quite promiscuous and not terribly respectful of myself, but I chalked it up to being a young, sexually liberated woman. Problem is, I am now a married woman with children and I shouldn't be acting that way anymore. But I don't feel any older or more mature and still want my freedom to behave that way.

What way? Please elaborate.

I normally wouldn't ask such personal questions, but I believe it's very important here.

My OM didn't cheat on me -

So, in all seriousness - his having a WIFE doesn't count as "cheating on you"?

I knew they stopped SF and were having serious problems in their marriage. She wanted to fix things and he was holding back. I was torn - I wanted him to be happy, but I also wanted him for myself. When he needed to give in to make her happy again (god it was so unfair to her) I knew he didn't want to but was only trying to make things livable at home, so I accepted it as part of our situation that we'd created.

I didn't see it as cheating because he wasn't doing it for himself. He didn't want to, but he did it out of guilt.

Yeah, I can see how f**ked up that looks. Yet I was so deep in it that it looked and felt normal.

I know I wanted SF more than he did and he now realized that turning me down was a mistake. But before the EA started, I was ok with what we did. Pretty vanilla stuff.

....

Seriously ... what experience is so unique with one man that a woman cannot enjoy the experience with another man? I know of none.

....

I guess it was just OM's confidence and experience. I was not used to it and it honestly blew me away. He met my needs in ways I didn't know I wanted them met and would not have been able to ask BH to do that before.

....

But he hasn't been open to it in the past and when I bring things up, won't he just assume it was because of OM?

....

I am lazy. I was attracted to OM and he and I were able to express wants easily. It is harder with BH and so I don't even try. But if I speak up, then he will want to do it. And I am not sexually attracted to him, so I don't want him to.

....

I was fairly protected growing up, but I also learned to masturbate (all on my own) at a very young age. I had plenty of opportunities to have sex in high school, but was always scared to go that far, so when I left home to go to university, I was still a virgin. But after my first experience, it was like the flood gates opened. I slept with pretty much anyone I got close enough to, whether I was with someone else or not. I was proud of myself. I was young and sexy and having fun. I had a foursome, a couple of threesomes, and lesbian ONS with a girl from the 3-some. I was doing whatever I wanted.

Then I met BH. He was different. I conquered him and prepared to move on, but he was nice and I didn't want to hurt him. So I stayed. I am sure I tried to warn him off by going into my desire for women and that I may be a lesbian. But he didn't run away. He was a safe guy and I thought that maybe he would save me from myself. I knew I was not acting responsibly and maybe this was a good choice. Right away I felt I'd settled.

Shortly after we started dating, I hooked up with an old friend who I had wanted so badly years ago (when I was 16 and he was 28). He was now a loser, but that didn't stop me. I told BH about it - but I honestly don't remember when or what his reaction was. I later went on an overnight ski trip and had every intention of cheating on him again with another old boyfriend, but the opportunity never came up, so I didn't.

We married and had kids and I seemed to put all of that behind me. OM and I were friends and flirting, but we didn't cross the line. But then we did.

I guess I never did change. I am a serial cheater.

The most f'ed up part of it is that you believe his lies.

They weren't having sex ...
He was holding back from her ...
He needed to give in ...
He didn't want to make her happy again ...
He's with her out of guilt ...

Oh, athena. I'm sure his wife has a much, much different story.

I knew they stopped SF and were having serious problems in their marriage. She wanted to fix things and he was holding back. I was torn - I wanted him to be happy, but I also wanted him for myself. When he needed to give in to make her happy again (god it was so unfair to her) I knew he didn't want to but was only trying to make things livable at home, so I accepted it as part of our situation that we'd created.

I didn't see it as cheating because he wasn't doing it for himself. He didn't want to, but he did it out of guilt.

Yeah, I can see how f**ked up that looks. Yet I was so deep in it that it looked and felt normal.

While in false R with my XWH, we dated, had SF, spent almost every afternoon talking privately.

What was he telling POSOW? He sleeps on the couch; its not working, etc...

Waywards lie. Even to their AP.

I'm sorry, but that is just too funny. Please tell me you don't still believe all of these lies. I could see how you would have had to believe them at the time in order to keep going on with the A and feeling "special" to him. But, please.

You do realize that this is what every single married man tells their AP right? It's so classically textbook that it isn't even funny. And for some reason, every single OW falls for it.

[quote=writer1]I'm sorry, but that is just too funny. Please tell me you don't still believe all of these lies. I could see how you would have had to believe them at the time in order to keep going on with the A and feeling "special" to him. But, please.

You do realize that this is what every single married man tells their AP right? It's so classically textbook that it isn't even funny. And for some reason, every single OW falls for it.

STOP TALKING ABOUT OM!!!

Every time you talk about other man your feelings for him surfaces! Do you not see this???

That is why I told you in my last post NOT to think or talk about other man when you start thinking about him start thinking about your DH.

What is wrong with you?

You are literally self sabotaging your marriage every time you get on here and post something about OM.

If you want your marriage to work then...

STOP THINKING ABOUT OM!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You can not do that until you start gaining control of your though process otherwise...

What you think about you'll bring about.

Good luck.

P.S the only time you should talk about him is with your husband being open and honest! but stop talking about OM on here! We do not give a rats @$$ about him, so stop it!

He's a cheater. He was willing to sleep with you for two years and lie to his wife about it the entire time. He's obviously a very good liar. That isn't proof enough?