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Here is a brief history of my past 5 years. I hope you can give me advice----------
March 2005 � Our 25 year old daughter died, by taking her own life, after about 8 years of struggling with an eating disorder.
June 2006 � My husband retired from a job he loved and worked at for 33 years---teaching
Summer of 2006 � He started an affair with a woman who had volunteered in his classroom for 3 years. (She later told me and told him that she had had a �crush� on him for two years---and she started things going by asking him to go to lunch with her.)
January 2007 � I discovered the affair from cell phone records and an online journal. I was completely floored by the discovery. We had been married for 32 years, and I never thought that we would ever be dealing with infidelity. Our friends were all shocked---never, ever thinking my husband could ever be unfaithful. I knew the other woman and her husband. We had even gone to movies and out to dinner with them a number of times. When I discovered the affair, I immediately drove to their house (my husband came, too) and told her husband. I was raging mad, and my husband told me he wanted a divorce, then changed his mind and said he would go to counseling with me.
January � July 2007 � We went to marriage counseling together, and things seemed to be getting better slowly.
November 2007 � I discovered that the affair had continued, and that he had lied to the marriage counselor the entire time. (My husband said that he broke it off several times, but that she always found a way to see him again, then the affair would restart.) He thought he wanted to be with her, but after about a week, told me that it was our marriage that he wanted. He agreed to go to counseling, himself-----to work on his issues. Our first marriage counselor, who became my counselor, has continuously said that she believes this all goes back to grief-----related to our daughter�s death, and also to his retirement.
November 2007 � March 2008 � My husband went to counseling, and we were doing better, slowly, but in March, told me that he couldn�t stop thinking about her, and wanted a divorce.
August 2008 � Our divorce was final, and so was the other woman and her husband�s.
November 2008 � He asked to meet with me (I had not seen him since April), saying what a terrible mistake he had made----that it was me he loved. I still loved him, so very slowly, we started a relationship again, and were remarried in June 2009, and he again went to counseling. Our remarriage seemed to be loving and happy.
November 2010 � I discovered (from her) that contact between them has continued through our remarriage. (I believe these contacts were just that----not a physical relationship). I immediately made my husband leave the house, permanently. He stayed with her for about 3 weeks, saying it was only because I made him leave so suddenly, and that she offered him a place if he paid her rent. He now has an apartment. He tells me he does not want her-----that contact with her was only because she made him feel so guilty for ruining her life. He has returned to his counselor, on his own-----saying he knows he has issues----especially with lying. (He has never "come clean" about anything. I always found the evidence, or recently, she told me.) I think he�s taking counseling very seriously now, finally. He is seeing the counselor to whom he lied before, so the counselor knows everything very well, and personally knows how my husband could lie so convincingly. He has ended it with her, seemingly most completely this time, and tells me that no matter how long it takes, he wants to prove to me that it�s me and our marriage that he wants. (Actually, she even told me that, rather sarcastically----�he loves you, and wants to be married to you.�) I have decided at this point to not move forward with divorce, even though many friends would like me to do so. My hope still, is that he means what he says. I do believe that this began because of grief------that he couldn�t face our terrible reality, and this woman was offering him an escape to "happiness.� I know that he made terrible, terrible choices, but I also know that this is not the man I have known and loved for almost 40 years.
My question is-------how long should this separation last? Our situation is different in that he tells me that it�s over, and he will do anything and everything to repair our marriage, and those are the guidelines for ending �Plan B,� but in our case, I know I need more time to be sure that he has the strength to never see her again. What should I do?
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Until he can prove beyond a total doubt that there is No Contact wit OW. Read up on EPs.
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My question is-------how long should this separation last? Our situation is different in that he tells me that it�s over, and he will do anything and everything to repair our marriage, and those are the guidelines for ending �Plan B,� but in our case, I know I need more time to be sure that he has the strength to never see her again. What should I do? bmd, I am sorry you are here and so sorry for the loss of your beloved daughter. But you are in the right place. I also lost my boy 10 years ago; age 18 in a car accident. My H left me for an affair a few months before he was killed, so I have been in your shoes. When reading through your post, I realized what the problem was: your H and the OW never completely ended contact. If he had left the job and moved away you could have avoided all that. But that is water under the bridge. You can save this if you move far away from the OW NOW. Otherwise, I predict you will have no chance. The solution is to make it as hard as possible for them to stay in contact. Living close to her keeps him triggered. The next thing you should do is use this program to fall in love again. He should derive his greatest happiness and joy FROM YOU and we can teach you how to do that. It doesn't take a long time if you strictly follow this program. Separation will harm your marriage, not help it, so I would rectify that situation asap. You are in a better position to save your marriage if you are together, not apart. Additionally, I would get the book Surviving an Affair by Dr Harley so you understand what has happened here. It has a great program in it that can change your marriage. While this can be done on your own, Marriage Builders also has some excellent coaching services and an program that could turn this around much quicker. They can do in 2-3 sessions what most marriage counselors can never do. Welcome to Marriage Builders, bmd.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I know I need more time to be sure that he has the strength to never see her again. What should I do? MOVE. He has no strength, so the environment needs to change that will allow him to stay away.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Put another way. alcoholic: I can't stop drinking when I go into bars!! Answer: STAY OUT OF BARS!  The key is to change the environment and make it very hard for him to see that skank again. Also, does everyone know of the affair and why you divorced? Does her family know this is an affair? The more exposed an affair, the harder it is to carry on.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Sorry you are here. You have the wonderful luxury of dating him until he can prove through action that he is truly committed to recovering your marriage. Don't commit to anything until you know you want to. Read Harley's articles on just compensation.... Just compensation - why we can't forgive-forget
D-Day #1 Aug/2007. D-Day #2 1/27/12 Legally Separated
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bmd, i can only imagine the pain you had to go thru, first with the death of your DD and then your WH who put you thru an emotional roller coaster. As Melody said MB can offer you a good program and it can also tell you if your WH is truly repentant. He will have to have Radical Honesty with you and if he is reluctant in any of the aspects of the MB program, meaning he is not sure he can follow the program, I will then close the door on him and move on. Moving away from OW is what you have to do first. No use wasting time if he is still triggered. Tell him what your conditions are -move -do MB and any other thing you might need him to do to repair the damage he has caused you. There are no excuses for cheating...sure the death of your DD was very very hard, but you did not cheat as a result. Cheating is a choice and he made that choice over and over again. You D and he fooled you into M again while he was still in contact with OW. Looking back at your 32 years of M, can you say with confidence that your WH never cheated on you. He is a teacher (so is my WH) and they are unfortunately re-known for their cheating. I can make you a long list of cheating teachers...it is very common in that profession. I am in no position to be sure. But my guess is that it is not the first time he has cheated and lied to you. blessing
atena
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Moving would not be possible right now. I have considered that for the future (I am a teacher, too), but also have questioned moving. Because, if he wants to still contact her, there is always email and texting----and then I'd be in a place without friends and support for me! So I'm wondering if actually staying here for the short term wouldn't be better----to prove to himself and me, that it is finished with her, even though she is nearby. I have the book, Surviving an Affair, and have read it.
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What Extroadinary Precautions has your WH put in place?
Gg
D-Day #1 Aug/2007. D-Day #2 1/27/12 Legally Separated
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Have you read the book, "Surviving an Affair"? In it, Dr Harley talks about establishing no contact and says that some couples need to move to avoid contact. In our case, my H and I moved 1200 miles away from the OW. H agreed to give me full access to his email and phone. Even then, we suffered a false recovery when my H violated his no contact promise.
Here is an exerpt from the letter I sent my husband after a false recovery (he contacted OW via email and telephone after having no contact for 17 months): ... Commit 100% to the marriage. This would be exhibited by the following: attend an MB weekend. (We attended in Jan 2010. The MB program is now online) ... Commit to completing all the assigned tasks at the weekend and for the follow-up counseling associated with the MB weekend. Follow MB all concepts, to include avoiding the love busters (as I have said openness and honesty continues to be the primary principle that has been a roadblock for us; independent behavior is another) as well as striving to meet identified emotional needs; review progress on the periodic schedule set up by the MB coaching staff. These concepts apply to me as well. If you chose to do this, I pledge to commit 100% of my effort to recovery of the marriage. c. Continue attending the PTSD support group. (My H is retired Army who had multiple deployments during his career). d. Add additional counseling to address the addiction issues of viewing porn as well as addiction to your affair partner. Follow the counselor�s recommendation for recovering from an addiction. e. Pursue a consultation with Primary Care Physician to determine if anti-depressants can assist medically. f. Continue transparency with my access to phone, computer. I am not certain that these are sufficient because even with these, you planned an exit strategy as well as contacted the other woman from your affair. g. NEVER contact your affair partner again under any circumstances. h. Apologize to those who have been hurt.
Since then, my H wrote a "plan to prevent infidelity", which outlines the boundries and precautions he follows. If he deviates even a tiny bit from these, I don't feel safe and communicate that to him.
I am sorry this has been happening to you for so long. I think you are a remarkable woman to entertain continuing your life with this man. You have a long marital history and I assume you see something in him. I am sorry for the loss of your daughter, but it was not the reason for his affair. The same loss happened to you and I don't see in your post where you revealed having your own affair.
AM
I type/write so slowly that all those other posts were already entered. I see that you will mot consider moving. In that case, I do no think you will be able to recover the M. Your H has something very simlilar to an ADDICTION to the OW. It is not as simple as just "proving" to himself that he can resist her.
Last edited by armymama; 01/07/11 07:00 PM.
BW - 73 WH - 68 M - 43 years D-day - 17 Apr 08 H broke contact 11/1/09 Back in love after the worst thing that every happened to us.
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Written to a wayward wife Extraordinary Precautions to Avoid A Former Lover To help you totally separate from your lover, and avoid the temptation to see him when you crave him the most, I suggest the following extraordinary precautions:
1. Honesty
The first extraordinary precaution to avoid your lover is to tell your husband all about your affair, and the decision you have made to restore your love for him. Then promise to keep telling him the truth about every aspect of your life, so you never again have a secret second life where you are tempted to hurt him behind his back.
Honesty and openness is one of the best ways to prevent yourself from being inconsiderate of your husband's feelings. It was your friend's threat to reveal all to your husband that motivated you to separate from your lover. Your friend wanted to shed to light of day on the things you were doing in secret to protect your husband. But you should do it yourself. Go right to your husband with the facts. If you had been honest about your budding relationship with your lover from the beginning, it would never have developed into an affair.
You may be afraid that once your husband knows the facts about your ongoing affair, he will leave you. Quite frankly, I think he has the right to make that decision. If, faced with the facts he decides to divorce you, you lose your option to restore your relationship with your him. But you simply cannot build a relationship on lies and deception. Dishonesty will never get you to your goal of loving your husband again. So it's better to get all of the cards out on the table now and build your marriage the right way, even if there is a chance that your husband will throw in the towel before you have a chance to reconcile.
Another reason you may be reluctant to tell your husband the truth is that he might have a violent reaction to what you have done. If you are afraid of his reaction, separate from him first, and then tell him the truth in a public place or with friends who can protect you. If your husband cannot control his temper once he knows the facts, then I see no hope of saving your marriage. Honesty is so important in marriage that if the threat of violence prevents honesty, I don't believe you will ever have a good marriage.
Besides, dishonesty does not prevent violence in marriage, it encourages it. If your honesty brings out violence in your husband, your dishonesty would enrage him even more, once he discovers that you've lied to him.
If you think your husband may divorce you or become violent when you are honest with him, I encourage you to be honest anyway, before you begin your plan for reconciliation. If he cannot accept the truth, no plan of reconciliation will work.
2. Account for Your Time.
Once you have established a willingness to be completely honest with your husband, then continue to be honest with him about all of your activities. Make sure he knows about everything you do throughout the day. Give him a complete schedule of your activities, and let him know which of those activities make you most tempted to contact your former lover. Try to avoid people and places that increase your craving to be with him.
3. Spend As Much of Your Time with Your Husband as Possible.
During withdrawal, there is not much your husband can do to deposit love units into your Love Bank. But it still makes sense for you to be together as much as possible. That's because the more you are with him, the less you will be tempted to contact your lover. Try to have lunch together, talk on the telephone several times a day, and be sure to spend evenings and weekends together.
In many cases, I have suggested that a husband and wife go on a three-week vacation together during the first few weeks of withdrawal, just to help the wayward spouse avoid contacting the former lover. I tell these couples not to expect too many love units to be deposited, but by getting away from the reminders of the lover, they find that such a vacation greatly reduces the time it takes for withdrawal. Besides, the distractions of a vacation can often compensate for the depression that accompanies withdrawal, and makes the experience much less painful.
Sometimes a wayward spouse feels like getting away from everyone during withdrawal, and going on the vacation alone. But it doesn't work. It's too tempting to call the lover, and in many cases the lover ends up joining the wayward spouse.
If you go with your husband on this vacation, you will not feel like being very romantic with him. He should expect very little from you, because you will be recovering from your addiction to your lover. It's only after the craving for your lover subsides, and your depression lifts that you will be able to give your husband the opportunity to deposit all the love units it takes for you to be in love with him again.
Of course, your husband must be very careful to avoid making matters worse by saying and doing anything that would upset you. Granted, he may not be very happy about your affair, but if he wants you to love him again, he must avoid withdrawing love units at all costs. He must be with you as much as possible, yet avoid anger, disrespect and demands, which are all Love Busters. He must also be careful to take your feelings into account whenever you make decisions.
If you slip, and contact your lover in spite of the extraordinary precautions you take, tell you husband about it immediately. Then, improve your extraordinary precautions to include the condition that caused the slip. Keep improving them until it becomes virtually impossible for you to contact your lover. A slip will set you back emotionally, but it does not mean that your recovery plan has been ruined. It simply needs an upgrade.
In many cases, I have encouraged couples to relocate to a different part of the country to avoid contact with a lover. It's a good example of an extraordinary precaution upgrade, when it became apparent that contact with a lover could not be avoided when living in the same city. It goes without saying that when lovers are fellow employees, a job change is absolutely essential to marital recovery. How is total separation from a former lover possible when you work together?
You asked if you should avoid using the internet, since it reminds you of your lover, and tempts you to contact him. I'm sure you can anticipate my answer. I suggest that you stay away from the internet until you are through withdrawal, and you have restored your love to your husband again. Then, I think it would be safe for you to return to it again. http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5065_qa.html
Last edited by gg615; 01/07/11 06:59 PM.
D-Day #1 Aug/2007. D-Day #2 1/27/12 Legally Separated
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I did let family and friends know about the affair. They are all very supportive of me----he has virtually no support from our family (even his own family) and friends.
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He tells me that he is committed to complete honesty, and has answered all questions I've had, by email. He is regularly seeing a counselor. The other woman does not know where he lives. He would be willing to do anything I asked him to do at this point. He told me that he would move-----but as I said earlier, it's just not possible right now.
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He told you that...even before and it did not work, did it? You need to find ways to make this man accountable. What are you planning on doing? You said you can't move. What can you do? Is he willing to give you passwords, cellphones etc...? Are you actually checking that he is not in touch with OW? How do you know she does not know where he lives? blessing
atena
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I am sorry. Your H has had a four year affair with this woman. If he stays in a place where he can easily see her out or her seek him out, the probability of them doing just that is high. Maybe it would be good to re-think taking him back, yet again. You have probably already heard everything he is saying now when he came back the last time. AM
BW - 73 WH - 68 M - 43 years D-day - 17 Apr 08 H broke contact 11/1/09 Back in love after the worst thing that every happened to us.
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That's why I'm doing what I'm doing right now-----we are living in separate places, with very little contact (only when necessary). I need time on my own to see if he means what he says. I don't think it's good for me right now to be dating him. He is extremely remorseful and takes full responsibility, not only to me, but to the counselor and to friends and family. If he truly wants us to be together, I'm thinking we need to be apart for 1-2 years to show me that she is out of his life. He doesn't want that, but accepts it if that is what it takes. I guess I still don't know though, how I'll know for sure that he's finished with her.
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Moving would not be possible right now. I have considered that for the future (I am a teacher, too), but also have questioned moving. Because, if he wants to still contact her, there is always email and texting----and then I'd be in a place without friends and support for me! So I'm wondering if actually staying here for the short term wouldn't be better----to prove to himself and me, that it is finished with her, even though she is nearby. I have the book, Surviving an Affair, and have read it. No, I'm sorry bmd. I know staying is the easy way, but it will NOT WORK. You need to move. You need to change your cell phone numbers, any email addresses, and make sure that the friends you leave behind do not give your new numbers to OW. Your WH and his OW have already made it clear to you that they cannot stay apart without your help. It won't work any other way.
D-Day 2-10-2009 Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever! Thank you Marriage Builders!
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It would be very hard for a man who cheated to not have sex with a woman for 1 or 2 years. My guess is that he will seek OW just out of pure lust. I still believe that moving is the key and that proximity would help. I know it is hard for you to trust him, but if he is close to you and you have frequent contact with him then you can check his phone, emails etc,,, and in the meantime do some MB counseling. You have the right to end this M and if you feel you will not be able to trust him no matter what, then you should allow yourself to be free and seek a better person as a husband blessing
atena
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So I'm wondering if actually staying here for the short term wouldn't be better----to prove to himself and me, that it is finished with her, even though she is nearby. I have the book, Surviving an Affair, and have read it. I don't think he will be ABLE to "prove" himself unless you move though. That is like asking the alcoholic to "prove himself" while sitting in the bar. He won't be "finished" unless and until you move. You already know this does not work. I don't give this much hope unless you move. How to Survive an Affair chapter in HIS NEEDS, HER NEEDSp. 177 ...I have seen husbands build new and wonderful relationships with their wives but then go back to their lovers after five or six years of what appeared to be marital bliss. When I ask them why, they inevitably tell me they miss the woman terribly and still love her. At the same time they stoutly affirm they love their wives dearly and would not think of leaving them. I believe a man like this has told the truth. He is hopelessly entangled and needs all the help possible to be kept away from his lover and stay faithful to his wife. I often recommend that a man once involved in an affair come in to see me every three to six months on an indefinite basis, just to talk about how things are going and to let me know how successfully he has stayed away from his lover. He must resign himself to a lifetime without her. HE MUST CERTAINLY NOT WORK WITH HIS FORMER LOVER AND SHOULD PROBABLY LIVE IN SOME OTHER CITY OR STATE. Even with those restrictions the desire for her company persists...
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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what Melody just posted has proven true over and over again for you. If you cannot move and you are planning to stay away from your WH for a year or 2 just to see what he does then it is pretty predictable that he will go back to OW or attempt to see her or maybe just seek out another new woman. It is really like expecting an alcoholic not to drink when he is surrounded by booze. And I am still thinking that, again, your WH must have lied and cheated on you some other time during his 32 years of M with you. DOes he travel to conferences? Does he have lunch with or train female teachers? blessing
atena
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