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Thank You!!

PLEASE stick to the original topic---

Helping this member repair & rebuild her marriage using MarriageBuilders Concepts & Principles!!



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I am a traditional family man myself. I think that by saving the M they can help the OC. The best bet is to work on the marriage first, then the child can know and understand through example what a healthy marriage is so he/she does not make the same mistakes in the future.

We are giving advice to save the marriage. The fathering aspect may have to be left in the courts, but for now, the best way to save the marriage is by cutting out OM. I understand that OM wants to be the father, and the BH wants to be the father too. In my opinion I do not think OM is going through the right channels to be a father, and is already being a bad example of what a father is, and is ruining a family. Why should BH feel any consequences of the affair by letting the OM have custody of a child he is willing to raise as his own?

I would die if only had 50/50 time with my boys. I would fight to the ends of this earth for them, and my FWW knows this.

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xxxxxxx

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and he has no regrets for staying with me.

but it's tough to want to stay in a M where you feel despised by your spouse. My BH has never been the emotional type to show affection or say "I love you," but this is just getting borderline abusive. We are all miserable, and for what?

Somewhat contradictory, don�t you think?

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Because this really isn't about the OC anymore, rather it's about surviving the A

Wanthealing, I have to say that you are one of the most self deluded women I have ever read here if you actually believe this. Of course, it�s about the OC, it�s going to be about the OC for a very long time, if not permanently.

I'm not going to T/J here about men's rights, but I will give you a different perspective from the viewpoint as a man. Hopefully, that will perhaps let you see what your husband may be thinking and what you are up against, and perhaps gain an insight to determine if you CAN recover your marriage. As one poster mentioned already, for a guy facing a WW with an OC and no COM, even Dr Harley admits it may be best to just cut bait and start over (although he does say recovery is possible). I think you will find that most men agree with this and I will tell you upfront that that is what I would counsel your husband to do. If parts of this come across as being harsh, I will say sorry in advance, but I think you need to know how a lot of men would think.

Let�s summarize your threads. You had an affair and had another man�s child as a result. You strung along both guys, maintaining contact with the OM until November, which is only two months ago, and after you had supposedly decided to stay in your marriage. For most of your original thread you told people how wonderful your husband is and how you don�t deserve him, yada, yada, yada, until it was time to talk with the Harleys whereupon your husband became controlling. According to you, your husband is just hunky-dory with you and the OC, but has this distressing tendency to vocalize and act out in angry outbursts, which of course would lead one to wonder just how ok he really is with what has happened to his life.

Your problem? You�re thinking like a woman, and a very guilty and scared one at that. Perhaps you ought to start thinking like a man. Walk around in your husband�s shoes for a while. You and your husband have been trying to have a child for a while, and have even discussed adoption, but you never mention if you had any medical help with why you were having difficulty conceiving with your husband. Then you have an affair and get pregnant. Your husband goes to your appointments with you and is a very pleased Dad during the pregnancy because he thinks the child is his - because you lied to him.

And then POOF it�s all gone, and what makes it even better is that you had the test done with OM instead of your husband because that�s where your priorities lied. What you don�t understand is that for a man having your first child is one of the greatest moments in life, and you took that away from him. You say you want to have children with your husband, but there won�t be joy involved because he will ALWAYS remember that his firstborn is actually another man�s child. You gave him no CHOICE. He had already made the choice to have his child with you; if you would have adopted a child, he would have had a choice and input into the decision. But once you did this incredibly selfish act you stole that choice forever, now the only choice he has is if to accept your perfidy or not.

Right now, no one knows and he�s already having problems coming to terms with what has happened � how bad do you think it will be when his family finds out and wonders why he wants to stay with you? When he has to face the fact that he�s been cuckolded by you and it is now public knowledge? Maybe even feeling a bit inadequate because you had difficulty having a child together only to have it rubbed in his face? Facing his parents is going to involve a great deal of shame. Justified or not, he will feel ashamed that he has accepted this in both their eyes and his own, that he is not being seen as a man but rather as a patsy. Imagine trying to deal with that and then coming here and finding his wife still attempt to justify what she�s done by saying he�s controlling. Still in the fog we are, yes? If you had a son and his wife did this to him, would you be very accommodating?

The folks on the other thread who had OC experiences can provide personal perspectives but they don�t really match your situation. One poster was a woman, whose husband had an OC, but unlike you the child does not live with them and they don�t have any contact. Pops� situation is also different in that his family was already well established and the OC was his last child. I have a lot of respect for Pops, a very centered and decent man who tries to help people in a bad situation, and who answers questions, even about himself, with equanimity and a desire to help. Does what he has been able to do in his situation make him a better man than someone who couldn�t go through that? I can�t answer that; I can only know that I wouldn�t have been able to follow his path. If I wanted to stay in his marriage, and that would be a very big IF, one of the conditions for recovery would have been that the child was offered for adoption. In your situation, I must say that I would have left the minute I found out that you had lied to me all along about what was supposed to be my first child. There could be no forgiveness.

I disagree with the people who say that you are remorseful, I don�t think you are. I do think you�re sorry you�ve gotten yourself into this situation. I don�t think you really do acknowledge what your husband is going through, because you don�t seem to have the empathy to do so. Otherwise you wouldn�t be complaining that he is not playing along with your game plan and your timeline. It takes a long time for a BS to recover from plain old vanilla infidelity, want to take a guesstimate how long it may take when you throw in a firstborn OC? You were selfish in your affair, you were selfish when you didn�t tell your husband the child you were carrying may not be his, you were selfish in maintaining contact after D-Day and you�re being selfish now.

I will wish you luck because I believe that the task ahead of you may prove to be insurmountable, and I would say that it would be in your best interests for your husband to be able to come here and have his own thread.


The one constant through all the years has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It's been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt, and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game, is a part of our past. It reminds us of all that once was good, and it could be again.
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WH,

Part of the problem here is that with the OC being a secret your H is able to terrorize you. Your and H lie to his family grows with every day your maintain this fiction.

Another problem is that with the OC being a secret your H is under such tremendous stress to protect that secret, and this will never go away.

I can tell you that as an OC the lies that were told to me were very painful once the truth came out. I don't think you could imagine looking at the OC everyday and feeling the truth at the tip of your tongue.

In my case I think my first legal father lasted about a year or two after I was adopted out of the family, before it broke up the marriage.

And OM is not just a "sperm donor" he represents a large part of who the OC will become, DNA is not destiny but it is important, otherwise we could train a chimp to be human.

God Bless
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Originally Posted by americajin
I will wish you luck because I believe that the task ahead of you may prove to be insurmountable, and I would say that it would be in your best interests for your husband to be able to come here and have his own thread.

americajin, that was an outstanding post and I think you made several excellent points. My feeling about this is that her BH may not be able to overcome this. For many people it would be too much to overcome. And like you said, he will be facing some tough times when he tells his mother and his family.

If my son came to me I would tell him to cut his losses and move on. I would counsel him that he has 2 paths: short term pain with the possibility of great future or long term pain. I would have a very hard time accepting her as my DIL.

It may be that her H cannot get over the resentment and I fear that he has no one to talk to about this. He doesn't want to tell his family so he has no one.

I really wish he would come here. I think we could help him with the situation. If he really wants to stay, we can help him with his anger.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Wanthealing,

One other thing to consider is that YOU and YOUR husband give up the child to the OM and let him raise the child. That's assuming he's a fit parent, and chances are, he no more or less fit than you.

Just because you are here, or you are the mother doesn't make you a more fit parent.

You MAY have to decide what is most important, your marriage, or a fight over the child.

I'm sure I'll hear all sorts of criticism, but really, what makes one infidel a better parent than another? Nothing.

Neither does the fact that she's married make her a better parent than her affair partner...

So I think it's a draw when it comes to which, the bio mother or the bio father is the better parent. So consider which is more important, your marriage or having custody of the child born from the affair.

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So I think it's a draw when it comes to which, the bio mother or the bio father is the better parent. So consider which is more important, your marriage or having custody of the child born from the affair.
I hesitate to enter this beehive smile but can I say:
The OM isn't married. Would it not make more sense for this child to be raised in a two-parent home?



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Excellent post, bettergullet.

What is the current status of the custody case? Has the OM won the appeal?

Your H should come here and get his own advice. I understand you wish to save your marriage. No one better to advise him than those of us here who understand his emotions and have walked that path.

But if OM gets granted a right to pursue custody, you will find it very difficult to shut him out of the child�s life. Courts don�t normally do that short of the OM being a convict. If he�s an average guy with average issues, he will be given some form of visitation and you�re not likely to get sole physical and legal custody if he�s a fairly normal person.

That is why I advocate a settlement. Litigation is horrendously stressful for everyone involved. Conflict is kept alive when it happens.

If he�s denied the appeal, then it will be effectively over and OM will be stripped of his rights. But I sure hope that if your H decides not to stay in the marriage that you won�t then hose him with CS payments for a child that isn�t his. That�s when you need to step up and get whatever jobs you need to get to take care of YOUR child.

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Assuming it remains a two-parent home. If the OC blows up the marriage, then it's certainly a draw.

The cold, hard calculus is as follows:

Dr H indicates an OC with continued contact with the affair partner is deadly to a marriage. To preserve the marriage, and that's clearly the goal surrounding my suggestion, one may be faced with not having contact with either the OC or the affair partner.

One may only get to pick one goal. Either save the marriage, or have the child. It may not be possible to do both. Since one vows to be with their spouse for life and put their spouse before all other humans, including parents and children, the only choice consistent with honoring the vow may be to let the child go with the other bio parent.

Many are not willing to accept this, but your spouse ALWAYS comes before your child when you are making decisions. If you decide otherwise, you are not honoring your vows.

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Originally Posted by maritalbliss
Quote
So I think it's a draw when it comes to which, the bio mother or the bio father is the better parent. So consider which is more important, your marriage or having custody of the child born from the affair.
I hesitate to enter this beehive smile but can I say:
The OM isn't married. Would it not make more sense for this child to be raised in a two-parent home?

That�s the very heart of the argument. By that thought process, all men who don�t have primary custody should drop out of the equation so that the kids can be raised by the ex wife and her new man, whomever that may be.

No. The ideal scenario is to not get into this situation in the first place. The answer is NOT to strip someone of their parental rights or to deny the child the right to know their biological parents.

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One may only get to pick one goal. Either save the marriage, or have the child. It may not be possible to do both. Since one vows to be with their spouse for life and put their spouse before all other humans, including parents and children, the only choice consistent with honoring the vow may be to let the child go with the other bio parent.
I believe Dr. H advocates using an IM to pick up and drop off the OC for visitation, to make sure NC remains in place. You can save the M AND have the child that way.


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Originally Posted by maritalbliss
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One may only get to pick one goal. Either save the marriage, or have the child. It may not be possible to do both. Since one vows to be with their spouse for life and put their spouse before all other humans, including parents and children, the only choice consistent with honoring the vow may be to let the child go with the other bio parent.
I believe Dr. H advocates using an IM to pick up and drop off the OC for visitation, to make sure NC remains in place. You can save the M AND have the child that way.

But why have that daily reminder of what happened?

If he wants the child, then let him raise the child. She has enough to do to help her husband heal.

He comes first. The spouse ALWAYS comes first before the child. I suggest the order of priorties when she is making a decision is:

1. What is the best for my husband and my marriage.

2. What is best for the child.

If having the OC and the drama surrounding the OC is destroying the marriage, then one way to resolve the drama is to give him 100% custody.

This is the Marriage Builders site, so we focus on what is best for the marriage. Perhaps NOT having the child around is the best for the marriage.

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The MB rules for recovery still apply.
Let us know if you need help with the following ....

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Extraordinary Precautions to Avoid A Former Lover

To help you totally separate from your lover, and avoid the temptation to see him when you crave him the most, I suggest the following extraordinary precautions:

1. Honesty

The first extraordinary precaution to avoid your lover is to tell your husband all about your affair, and the decision you have made to restore your love for him. Then promise to keep telling him the truth about every aspect of your life, so you never again have a secret second life where you are tempted to hurt him behind his back.

Honesty and openness is one of the best ways to prevent yourself from being inconsiderate of your husband's feelings. It was your friend's threat to reveal all to your husband that motivated you to separate from your lover. Your friend wanted to shed to light of day on the things you were doing in secret to protect your husband. But you should do it yourself. Go right to your husband with the facts. If you had been honest about your budding relationship with your lover from the beginning, it would never have developed into an affair.

You may be afraid that once your husband knows the facts about your ongoing affair, he will leave you. Quite frankly, I think he has the right to make that decision. If, faced with the facts he decides to divorce you, you lose your option to restore your relationship with your him. But you simply cannot build a relationship on lies and deception. Dishonesty will never get you to your goal of loving your husband again. So it's better to get all of the cards out on the table now and build your marriage the right way, even if there is a chance that your husband will throw in the towel before you have a chance to reconcile.

Another reason you may be reluctant to tell your husband the truth is that he might have a violent reaction to what you have done. If you are afraid of his reaction, separate from him first, and then tell him the truth in a public place or with friends who can protect you. If your husband cannot control his temper once he knows the facts, then I see no hope of saving your marriage. Honesty is so important in marriage that if the threat of violence prevents honesty, I don't believe you will ever have a good marriage.

Besides, dishonesty does not prevent violence in marriage, it encourages it. If your honesty brings out violence in your husband, your dishonesty would enrage him even more, once he discovers that you've lied to him.

If you think your husband may divorce you or become violent when you are honest with him, I encourage you to be honest anyway, before you begin your plan for reconciliation. If he cannot accept the truth, no plan of reconciliation will work.

2. Account for Your Time.

Once you have established a willingness to be completely honest with your husband, then continue to be honest with him about all of your activities. Make sure he knows about everything you do throughout the day. Give him a complete schedule of your activities, and let him know which of those activities make you most tempted to contact your former lover. Try to avoid people and places that increase your craving to be with him.

3. Spend As Much of Your Time with Your Husband as Possible.

During withdrawal, there is not much your husband can do to deposit love units into your Love Bank. But it still makes sense for you to be together as much as possible. That's because the more you are with him, the less you will be tempted to contact your lover. Try to have lunch together, talk on the telephone several times a day, and be sure to spend evenings and weekends together.

In many cases, I have suggested that a husband and wife go on a three-week vacation together during the first few weeks of withdrawal, just to help the wayward spouse avoid contacting the former lover. I tell these couples not to expect too many love units to be deposited, but by getting away from the reminders of the lover, they find that such a vacation greatly reduces the time it takes for withdrawal. Besides, the distractions of a vacation can often compensate for the depression that accompanies withdrawal, and makes the experience much less painful.

Sometimes a wayward spouse feels like getting away from everyone during withdrawal, and going on the vacation alone. But it doesn't work. It's too tempting to call the lover, and in many cases the lover ends up joining the wayward spouse.

If you go with your husband on this vacation, you will not feel like being very romantic with him. He should expect very little from you, because you will be recovering from your addiction to your lover. It's only after the craving for your lover subsides, and your depression lifts that you will be able to give your husband the opportunity to deposit all the love units it takes for you to be in love with him again.

Of course, your husband must be very careful to avoid making matters worse by saying and doing anything that would upset you. Granted, he may not be very happy about your affair, but if he wants you to love him again, he must avoid withdrawing love units at all costs. He must be with you as much as possible, yet avoid anger, disrespect and demands, which are all Love Busters. He must also be careful to take your feelings into account whenever you make decisions.

If you slip, and contact your lover in spite of the extraordinary precautions you take, tell you husband about it immediately. Then, improve your extraordinary precautions to include the condition that caused the slip. Keep improving them until it becomes virtually impossible for you to contact your lover. A slip will set you back emotionally, but it does not mean that your recovery plan has been ruined. It simply needs an upgrade.

In many cases, I have encouraged couples to relocate to a different part of the country to avoid contact with a lover. It's a good example of an extraordinary precaution upgrade, when it became apparent that contact with a lover could not be avoided when living in the same city. It goes without saying that when lovers are fellow employees, a job change is absolutely essential to marital recovery. How is total separation from a former lover possible when you work together?

You asked if you should avoid using the internet, since it reminds you of your lover, and tempts you to contact him. I'm sure you can anticipate my answer. I suggest that you stay away from the internet until you are through withdrawal, and you have restored your love to your husband again. Then, I think it would be safe for you to return to it again.

Four Rules to Guide Marital Recovery

After you are through withdrawal from the addiction to your lover, your depression will have lifted and you will no longer feel a craving to talk to your lover. At that time you will be ready to put into place rules that will guide you and your husband toward a deep love for each other. After you have followed the rules for a while (six months to two years), you and your husband will be soul-mates.

These are the Four Rules to Guide Marital Recovery that you and your husband should follow to help you restore your love for eachother:

1. The Rule of Protection: Avoid being the cause of your spouse's unhappiness.

If you and your husband want to be in love with each other, you must build your Love Bank accounts. But before you build them, you must be sure there are no leaks in the Love Bank. It's pointless to deposit love units into a sieve, where every deposit is promptly withdrawn by a Love Buster. So you must make a special effort to plug up those leaks by committing yourselves to avoid being the cause of each other's unhappiness.

The most obvious things spouses do to ruin their love for each other is what I call Love Busters. They are angry outbursts, disrespectful judgments, annoying behavior, selfish demands and dishonesty. I describe these destructive habits in my basic concepts, but if you need special help learning how to avoid them, I suggest you read, Love Busters: Overcoming Habits that Destroy Romantic Love. This book will help you identify the Love Busters that keep emptying your Love Bank accounts, and show you how to stop inflicting them on each other.

Most of the Q&A columns I've posted on the Marriage Buildersᆴ web site focuses attention on the Policy of Joint Agreement (never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement between you and your spouse). This policy protects both you and your husband from each other thoughtless decisions. Your affair was a blatant example of thoughtlessness on your part because you knew it would hurt your husband, but you went ahead and did it anyway. The Policy of Joint Agreement is a very important guide to helping you keep the Rule of Protection. That's because it helps you realize that anything you do that hurts your husband is off limits to you, regardless of how wonderful it makes you feel.

If you had followed the Policy of Joint Agreement, you would never have had an affair. But the Policy will also help you avoid hurting each other in a host of other ways, too. My book, Fall in Love, Stay in Love, can help you learn how to follow the Policy of Joint Agreement, and use it to negotiate agreements that are fair for both of you. Once you learn to negotiate with each other fairly, you will have learned how to follow the Rule of Protection.

2. The Rule of Care: Meet your spouse's most important emotional needs.

The way to deposit the most love units is to meet a person's most important emotional needs. Your lover did that when he wrote you all those e-mail letters because conversation was your most important emotional need. After one month of filling your Love Bank with thousands of love units that were e-mailed to you, you found him irresistible -- you were in love with him.

Conversation is not your only important emotional need. Affection, recreational companionship, admiration and sexual fulfillment may be some of the other important emotional needs that your lover met. Unless your husband eventually meets your must important needs as well as your lover met them, you will be frustrated and at risk for another affair.

Sometimes a spouse must learn to meet a need that he or she has never been very effective in meeting. Many of the spouses I've counseled have had to learn to be affectionate for the first time in their lives. They also have had to learn to be stimulating conversationalists and skilled lovers. They have had to learn to provide greater financial support, become more effective in their parenting skills and learn to become admiring instead of being critical. New habits that lead to need fulfillment can be learned by anyone. All it takes is a plan and willingness to follow it until expert level is achieved.

But your husband may already know how to meet your emotional needs. An important reason that you had an affair was that your husband's work schedule prevented him from giving you the attention you craved from him. When you and your husband agree to follow this second Rule to Recovery, his work schedule will no longer stand between you, because meeting your needs will become your husband's highest priority. All the needs that your lover was meeting for you will be met by your husband in the future.

If you need help identifying and learning how to meet each other's important emotional needs, I suggest you read, His Needs, Her Needs: Building an Affair-proof Marriage. It describes the ten most important emotional needs for men and women, and how to become an expert at meeting those needs. When your husband has learned to meet your needs, he will be depositing so many love units that his account in your Love Bank will be overflowing. By then, you will be thoroughly convinced that leaving your lover to rebuild your marriage was the right decision to make.

3: The Rule of Time: Give your spouse your undivided attention.

You indicated in your letter that it was the lack of your spouse's attention that drove you into the arms of your lover. But it may have been more a lack of time than a lack of attention. As I already mentioned, your husband may already know how to meet your emotional needs, but unless he sets aside enough time to do it, all of his skill does you no good at all. It's the man who gives you time for undivided attention who will win your heart.

I suggest that you and your husband plan to spend at least 15 hours each week together, giving each other your undivided attention. Use that time to meet each other's emotional needs for affection, conversation, recreational companionship and sexual fulfillment. I have found that if that amount of time is taken to meet emotional needs, you can spend the rest of your 100 waking hours each week doing just about anything you please, without any risk to your love for each other. But if you do not set aside that time, your good intentions will not buy you a single love unit.

Since most everything we do must be scheduled or we don't do it, I suggest you take about a half an hour each week (say, Sunday afternoon from 3:30 to 4:00) to schedule your time together for the next week. Get out your schedules and write each other into your appointment books. Once scheduled, don't let anything interfere with your time together.

I suggest spending the same days and times together every week because it's easier to remember than a new time each week. Besides, you can be better emotionally prepared to be with each other if you always know that Tuesday evening you will be together from 7 to 10.

I also suggest that you spend time together when you have plenty of energy. Don't give each other the leftovers, give each other the best of yourselves. That's why I generally rule out time together after 11:00 pm. For one thing, you need your sleep for the challenges of the next day, and for another, there are not too many people who are at their best that late at night.

Finally, I suggest that you spread your time out every week, giving each other at least one hour of undivided attention every day. I am generally opposed to cramming all of your time together into a marathon weekend of 15 hours, because undivided attention is required, and 15 hours of anything makes undivided attention almost impossible.

4. The Rule of Honesty: Be completely honest with your spouse.

We have already discussed honesty as an extraordinary precaution to prevent you from contacting your lover, so I won't say much more about it. But what you begin as an extraordinary precaution, must become the standard way you and your husband communicate with each other -- with openness and honesty.

You have not been honest with your husband. If you had been honest, you could never have had an affair. Your honesty is your husband's greatest protection because it lets him know what you are up to. It also helps you both make adjustments to each other. Instead of having an affair, you should have told him how unhappy you were with his negligence of you, and how you were falling in love with another man who would give you his time and attention. If you had ended the budding relationship then, and focused on getting more of your husband's undivided attention, you would not have put both of you through such an ordeal.

The Basic Concepts section of this web site contains a section entitled, "the Policy of Radical Honesty." It outlines precisely what the rule of honesty is. It's complete honesty. I want you to read it over very carefully, because it explains precisely how honest you and your husband are to be with each other.

But be careful not to let Love Busters ruin the purity and value of honesty. Keep anger, disrespect and demands out of your honest expression of facts and feelings. If you can do that, you will find your honesty will not only help you find solutions to your problems, but it will also draw you closer together, and help you become the soul-mates that you can be.

If you are willing to permanently end your relationship with your lover (never see or communicate with him again), get through withdrawal, and then you and your husband follow the Four Rules to Guide Marital Recovery, I guarantee you that you will have a great marriage. And I also guarantee you that neither of you will ever suffer through an affair again.

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This situation won't really be resolved until the appeal is done. It will be at that point when a decisive course of action can be made.

If OM is granted a lifeline, then settlment is best so that everyone can start healing.

If he's not, then recovery needs to happen with wanthealing needing to defog (massively) and BH getting support.

So the Marriage Building advice is to wait for the appeal to play out. OM is really deflecting anger he feels towards you to the OM. If OM disappears, that anger will be directed at you.

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wanthealing: Have you read Gack1's story? There is someone else here with a very similar situation. He is raising his wife's OC (also their first child) and the OM is not involved in the picture at all.

I'm not even going to argue with all the father's rights advocates on this site. BTDT, and it's pretty pointless. I will say though that wanthealing's BH is actually this baby's legal father, since they were married at the time the child was born, and he wants to raise this child with her. I'm wondering why it is that none of you father's rights advocates seem to be advocating for this poor BH's rights? He is this child's legal father and may well be allowed to remain so under the law. Remember, OM already lost one case. There's a very good chance that the OM will never be given any rights to this baby. It's happened many times before, since the husband is considered the legal father of any child born into the marriage. And yet, she's actually being told to go out and get a DNA test and pretty much prove the OM's case for him, in spite of the fact that the law seems to be on her and her BH's side so far. This is about the most horrible advice I can imagine anyone giving at this point.

Wanthealing, I think you were much better off on the pregnancy and child forum, receiving advice from others who actually have experience dealing with an OC situation.


Me: BS/FWW: 48
BS/WH: 50
DS: 30, 27, 25
DD: 28
OC: 10
BH and I are raising my OC together.
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Also, wanthealing, are there any court orders right now that state that you are not allowed to move out of state?


Me: BS/FWW: 48
BS/WH: 50
DS: 30, 27, 25
DD: 28
OC: 10
BH and I are raising my OC together.
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