But who are you to be the judge of whether or not wanthealing's BH isn't thinking clearly? Just because he doesn't want a DNA test performed on his child (at least at this time) doesn't mean he's not thinking clearly. Just because that's what you would do, doesn't mean it is what every man would do. And I don't think wanthealing should force the issue if her BH is against the DNA test.

Approximately 60 posts ago I asked that this thread return to the original topic---helping this member repair & rebuild her marriage.

NOT the rights of the OP (who is not here posting with us) nor the BH (also not here) but helping this member!!

My request has obviously been ignored.

PLEASE help her with suggestions FOR HER MARRIAGE!! If you are unable to do so,,PLEASE REFRAIN from posting!!

If you choose to concentrate on the rights of parents, biological or not, start your own thread!!

To put the DNA test issue at rest, here are the facts from our attny:

An at-home test is not admissible in court (particularly when no witness is present, as in my case).

If we do an at-home test beforehand and the judge asks us if we know the paternity, we have to be honest. We cannot purjure ourselves. Thus the reason my BH wants to wait until all the court stuff is out of the way, then we can do a private test for ourselves so that we know what we need to tell OC and family.

As for OM's rights, we are willing to let the court determine that. Just as OM is fighting for rights, so are we. We can live with whatever the court decides, and we'll move on with life one way or another while working it out to maintain absolute NC. But ideally we would like to keep him away until OC is old enough to make a decision about what OC wants. Again, I'd like for advice about marital recovery, and how I can help in my BH's healing process (without pursuing a DNA test, since that's not an option right now), not beat the "OM rights and DNA testing dead horse." My BH is unshakeable in his decision and I support whatever he wants to do.

The other issue I'd like advice on is how to tell the in-laws about A. We already assume they will advise BH to leave me; he is prepared for that. BH is even prepared to be disowned over this, though I hope it doesn't come to that. But if anyone has been through this and has some advice on how to confess an A to in-laws and other family, we could really use it. Perhaps my BH will read something that compels him to want to tell sooner than later, since I really want to get the confession over with--but only with BH's approval, of course.

Thank you, JustUss!

Writer1, it sounds awfully like you are advising this WW to keep her BH in this marriage/household under (likely) false or at least ambiguous conditions. Gee, that sounds like a great way to renew a marriage�start with a year-long affair and all the deceit that goes along with it, add in an OC whose father is very likely her recent ex-lover, hide ALL of that from the extended family who are led to believe otherwise, and then avoid or discourage the truth about paternity from being definitively uncovered by the BH because �he didn�t ask� and the real answer may be legally inexpedient in court.

That doesn�t sound like openness and transparency to me! It sounds a lot like WW-a$$ covering and using a man who is emotionally wrecked right now. The BH here should be respected enough to make his own decisions armed with facts. Yes, the BHs paternity can be proven or disproven without the OM knowing or the test being legally admissible. He has a right to know in advance no matter how he chooses to proceed afterward!


Ahhh, hate to tell you this, WH, but if I�m hearing you right, I would have zero doubt about its (medical) credibility. Correct me if I�m wrong, but I�m gathering from what you wrote that:

--OM submitted samples from himself and OC the one time they were together behind your back. (All that�s required for DNA matching is a cheek swab�any cellular material is sufficient.)

--The results came back as a match (i.e. half of OC�s genetic material matched his).

If true, that is definitive medical proof (even if legally inadmissible due to chain of evidence concerns) that he is the bio father to the tune of 99.9999%.

The converse would not be true. If the results showed no match, that certainly wouldn�t disprove he was the bio father cuz he could have used sample(s) from random unverified sources. In other words, it would be easy to falsify the test to a negative result but impossible to falsify it to a positive one (unless OM has another bio child to sample from).

In addition, if you �doubt the credibility� of OM�s paternity claim, why would you be planning on later telling OC about OM so she can decide �if she wants to know� him? How would that be a concern at all unless you were pretty darn sure right now that OM was OC�s father?

It�s strange. In reading your posts, you expressed little doubt at all before about who was the bio father and your actions in telling both OM & BH back that up. I believe that you personally know fully well that your daughter is genetically from the OM. You hope to save your marriage and you are vexed that your BH is acting out like he has been. But, you will never be able to truly restore your marriage as long as there is a lack of transparency, facts that go �unspoken�, or ambiguous unanswered questions. Your BH deserves better and he�s obviously too emotionally distraught right now (punching holes in walls!) to make judgments, especially given the fact that he is being withheld from the full story.

Well, I never had to tell my in-laws. My BH exposed to them during my A. So, when I got pregnant, they knew from the very beginning that the baby was an OC. But, I can say that they have been very accepting of the situation. They treat OC as their own grandchild. There have been no real issues with it so far. She calls them "grandma" and "grandpa" just like our other kids do. So, your in-laws may take this better than you think. Of course, it's going to be a shock for them, and your situation is complicated by the fact that they have been lead to believe that this baby is their biological grandchild for sometime. I think the sooner you tell them the better.

Melody had some good suggestions about how to tell them. I think you and your BH should do it together. Certainly, presenting a unified front in this is more likely to convey the fact that you and your BH are committed to this marriage and to dealing with this situation together.

One final time. No one is denying that her BH has a right to ask for a DNA test. He doesn't want one, not at this time at least. Why should he be forced to do something he doesn't want to do.

Wanthealing has made it very clear that she and her BH are on the same page as far as the DNA test goes and she doesn't need any further help with that. Can we stop beating the dead horse now?

This is as I suspected. Sadly, I was thinking about your case on my drive home and I suspect that you've been advised not to do the DNA test because if you are asked in court, you would have to answer honestly and that answer might establish the OM's paternity. Without that being established, if your state presumes the husband is the father, then the OM has no standing in court.

I certainly understand that as a legal strategy. However, it doesn't square with Marriage Builders which is about being honest and building a relationship. Not winning some sort of legal contest. Because unless you know with 100% certainty that the child is the OM's, you are keeping this information from your husband as well.

But then, if you know that with certainty because you didn't have sex with your husband, or he's been deemed sterile, or whatever, then wouldn't you have to be honest about that in court if asked?

So I'll ask again, what is your primary objective, to win sole custody of the child, or save your marriage.

You've been mostly given advice about having your way in court. I believe much of that advice will cost you in terms of saving your marriage.

So if you want to simply win your court case, continue on the path your husband has chosen. However, if you want to save your marriage, adopt a strategy that gets the affair and the paternity of the child into the open so you can work from a totally transparent situation.

Secrets only breed secrets and are not conducive to Marriage Building.

Again, what is Dr Harley's suggestion TO SAVE THE MARRIAGE?

Instead of asking us, both you and your husband buy some time with the Marriage Builders team and ask for a plan to recover your marriage while this is on-going. You would ask about the DNA test, telling your in-laws, etc from the perspective of restoring the marriage, not winning a case in court.

They can't give legal advice, but they can give advice from the perspective of saving your marriage, which I believe is your most pressing problem right now.

You have to have a sound marriage regardless how the court actions go.

According to Dr. Harley's POJA, any decision has to be agreed upon by both me and BH. Is that not BH's right to "be in denial" about DNA and exposure if he wants to be? And I must support it, even if I don't think it's best for all involved. Until we both agree to a change in action, we must follow this path. Maybe my BH isn't ready for the transparency you speak of. I've now become fully transparent with him so that he knows every detail about everything, but it's BH's choice if he wants to accept it or share it with the family, right? If I tried to force him to see differently, to him, that would be a love buster.

And if at any time BH decides he does not want any part of me, OC, or our M, he will be free and clear with no obligation (unless OC turns out to be his). He knows that, but he wants to make M work and wants OC in his life. That's where he's at now, and now is all we can deal with. We just need guidance on how to find love amidst the rough waters we're neck-deep in. The rest will just have to pan itself out one step at a time.

Enlightened, you are correct that we need to set our focus on the M. Somehow we seem to think that the court case and our M go hand-in-hand, but that's not the reality. You've given me a good reminder. Thanks.

And Tawanda, thank you for being a beacon of hope with your words several posts back. I end up pretty discouraged on this forum at times, but some sweet words now and then are good for the soul.

If you don't agree, this is not a POJA, wanthealing. Click on the link on the right of your screen "The Policy of Joint Agreement" and read the article. You'll also want to read about negotiating to resolve conflict in that article, as well.

This is POJA: Never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement between you and your spouse.

FWIW: As a 'love child' I can tell you that truth has a way of coming out, even when you think you've got it all 'under control.' I'm with your BH on waiting on the DNA test, though.

I understand your point, maritalbliss, but I took that to mean that I cannot expose anything unless we both enthusiastically agree. And as for negotiating, we are both okay with waiting until the court stuff is done and then we can hopefully both enthusiastically agree to get the DNA test and expose everything asap. Does that make sense?

Perfect sense. Thank you, wh

WantHealing,

I feel so bad about the situation you & your h are going through. It's tough,,no doubt about it. And he's having problems,,no doubt about that either.

Because you are in close contact with his family, I think full disclosure with them will help,,not only him but your marriage. I agree going to them together, as a united front, with help for the initial disclosure. I'd allow him to talk first,,to let them know the situation, your joint decisions and your joint committment to the marriage. HE is their son, they are going to (perhaps reluctantly) accept his wishes. They are probably going to be shocked, heartbroken, but PLEASE allow for their initial responses. They may lash out at you but PLEASE try to understand their shock and anger. I have no doubt they love their son, you and that baby. They DO NOT want to lose that baby either. In six months, I have no doubt SHE IS their grandbaby,,no matter WHO her bio-father is. But give them a moment,,it might take alittle while.....

As for you & your H,, again, it's gotta be difficult, with the court case interferring, creating triggers. IF you have ceased ALL contact, confessed to your H regarding ALL prior contact, and are doing all you can to assure him HE is the ONLY one and devoted yourself to making him feel SAFE, you can only continue.

How about reminding him everyday of the goal. I DO NOT mean verbally reminding him! I mean by actions, not words. Keeping sending him those texts,,,, when he has been triggered, hug him, tell him you're sorry & what can you do TODAY to make him feeel better. That used to help me.

wanthealing,

You sound like you have the no contact thing and the transparency thing already in place and you are making all your decisions together.
I guess the next thing should be conversations other than the affair or the paternity ............and how about recreational time spent together, go to the movies, go out for supper together, just enjoy each other without all this hanging over you for an evening................and of course lots of affection, hand holding, hugging, kissing good morning and good evening..............that sort of thing.......

Nerly and Jessi, those are excellent excellent ideas. My BH knows all the dirt, thankfully, but I should probably remind him more of my devotion. Plus I think I do need to spend more time reminding him of the goal and spending more time together dating. With a young baby it gets hard to find time, but we need to make time one way or another. Maybe if we spend more time dating he won't have time to obsess about the court situation--especially since the court case is in limbo at the moment and out of our hands.

And also thank you about the preparation for confession day to my in-laws. I will not get defensive, since I have no defense anyways, and I will let them lash out and mull over things until they are ready to make a decision about keeping me in thier lives or out. My prayers is that they'll eventually forgive and that time will heal...my fingers will be crossed for however long it takes!

want I know you have tried to get your H here with no success.

with all the anger that he has and his outbursts the best thing for your marriage (IMHO) is to get him on here where he can have an outlet for his anger instead if knocking holes in the wall and kicking the dog.

not sure exactly how but you have to find a way.

from Dr Harley's words and yours, your marriage will continue to struggle until he learns to control his anger

WantHealing,

My ex-DiL ran off with another man and stayed gone for a month before she returned home to reconcile with my son. 8-1/2 months later, my granddaughter was born...a few weeks premature, and I know this because I saw the estimated due date on the nurse's blackboard at the nurses' station. Still...we knew it was a possibility that this beautiful little girl was a product of her affair.

Our son knew this, as well, but we decided, as soon as we learned of the pregnancy, that if he was willing to be this baby's daddy, then she would also be our granddaughter.

The marriage did not last, and ended in divorce a little over 2 years later. However, this little girl was entwined in our hearts and was/is the apple of our son's eye. She was a big Daddy's girl, right from the start. Her mother said that once, when she was feeding the baby, our granddaughter heard our son's voice outside on the porch and nearly jumped out of her mother's arms, trying to get to her daddy.

There were many, many times when, if he allowed himself to think about it, our son would literally cry over the thought that she wasn't really his child. He never wanted a DNA test because he didn't want to know for sure that she WASN'T his. The OM never made any claims on her, probably because he didn't want to pay child support, but he did call up a babysitter one time to see if the babysitter would bring the baby outside so he could "get a look at her". The babysitter refused.

When our granddaughter was 8 years old, her mother moved to Texas to be with the man she later married. Our son refused to allow her to leave the state with their children. Our ex-DiL tried to claim that he shouldn't have custody of our granddaughter because he was not the bio-father. The judge ordered a DNA test to be done and ordered HER to pay for it. In the meantime, our son did the home DNA test and sent it to the lab. It came back with over a 99% chance that he was the father. Ex-DiL never did come up wth the money for the DNA test, and finally agreed to relinquish custody to our son.

Oh, and in the meantime, the FOM called our son and told him that there was no need to worry about his trying to take our girl away...that he would testify on our son's behalf if needed...that as far as he was concerned, our son was her father. Our son told him, "Well, it's just as well that you never tried to be in her life, cuz she's not yours, never has been, and never will be. I have the DNA proof in hand."

The funny thing is...I was not the least bit surprised that she is our bio-grandchild. Somehow, I also "knew" she was...but it really didn't matter. We loved her even when we thought she wasn't really completely ours.

A few months ago, my ex-DiL wrote me a note to apologize for the way she treated us and to express regret for her actions during her marriage to our son. She said that she would never forget how, the first time we saw her after she returned home to our son, was how I hugged her and said, "I'm glad you're back home." She also said that she was terrified of what we would say upon learning of her pregnancy with our granddaughter, and that she was overwhelmed with gratitude...and yes, guilt...for our acceptance and love for the baby.

P.S. My daughter says that I "cloned" our granddaugher, because she has "ways" like me!

I have yet to see a court allow OM visitation or any level of custody when the WW and BH are still married living as husband and wife. The law of presumptions job is to protect the original marriage contract and family.