seriously,

I am a BS who has not recovered her M. In my case, WH continued his A (just pushed it more undercover) despite all my best efforts at a Plan A for 10 weeks and then a Plan B of 4 months.
On the one hand you are in a better situation than me because your WH appears to be repentant and you can be fairly sure that the A is over since he has given up his job and she is on the other side of the world. On the other hand, you are in a worse situation in that you are very sensitive to the hurt of infidelity in that you lived in that horrible situation with your parents. There was no infidelity in my parents very happy marriage and there is no divorce or infidelity in my siblings marriages (5 of them are married) I'm not trying to tell you what to do but I can just say that, in my case, following MB plans gave me the peace of mind of knowing that I had done my very best to save my marriage and to preserve my family intact and that is why I would recommend that you do that so that no matter which way things turn out you will come through this a strong, better person.

There is no doubt that the best outcome for children is to grow up in a loving, united family but failing that it is better for them to grow up with one main strong, happy, confident parent.

You have NO control over your WH's actions, thoughts and feelings. In fact you have very little control over your own feelings; they are the genuine reflection of what you are going through. You DO have control over your own actions and I really recommend that you act in a way now that will allow you to look your daughters in the eyes one day in the future and be able to say 'I did my best, I wanted you to have a happy, united family and I did everything I could to give you that.'

You have a choice to make: either to give this marriage your best shot and try to make it work OR walk out now because you can't take any more. Your fears, if you choose the second option, that there are serious flaws in your marriage/husband that you were blind to before are valid and may be true but you will only know that for sure if you try with all your heart to mend what is wrong. You will find out and very soon if this marriage cannot survive but if you give up now you will never really know.

What I am saying is that trying to make it work (and MB is the best method I know of) will give you either a much better marriage eventually or the reassurance that you did your best so that you can move on serenely, able to move forward in your life and turn the page properly. THis may not be 'fair' in that the BS has to make efforts to mend something they didn't break but this is how it is and railing against unfairness doesn't really achieve anything. Lots of disasters that befall people in this world aren't 'fair' but rolling your sleeves up afterwards is mostly the best way forward.

I am writing this after a week spent in Ireland with my daughters. THis morning they went to spend the second half of their school holidays with their dad. This morning one of them said to me 'I hate leaving you for a week but...' then she got stuck because she didn't want to say that she didn't want to see her dad who she loves too. So she said 'What I really want is for us all to be together.' Of course I feel sad for her but it's good to be able to hug her back and say 'I know' without any guilt on my part.

Sorry for the ramble there but you are in a turmoil, a place of pain and hurt and it's hard to be logical (I'm so sorry for you too Daisy - it's a horrible place to be. Don't go away. THis is a good place to work through your emotions and find appropriate ways to express them.) I am now in a good, calm place and I look back in amazement at the journey I've made and in some ways I don't fully regret it.
I'm off tomorrow to spend a few days with good friends for the new year so I won't have internet access but best of luck and I hope you will find the right way though.

Thanks so much for all the uplifting words everybody. I have just been reading and rereading it all. It feels so good to know someone is out there.

So, the update. White knuckled it through Christmas. I can see why people have false recoveries at this time. Up late on Christmas eve, showing SWS what I got the girls, filling the stockings, etc. Still all with this pit of sorrow in my stomach and tears throughout.

One of the hardest things about talking to him is hearing how much of not only his secret second life he was lying about, but how much in general. Here I was thinking I was a pretty rockstar wife, and lo and behold, he's been quite unhappy for years... even said he'd fallen out of love with me "a while back."

That hurts a close second to the affair stuff.

Just wondering howcome I'm so unlovable, why I'm so easily put in the dumpster? Especially when I was trying... it would be more understandable if I hadn't been trying my best this whole time.

Did I teach people how to treat me thus?

So, after Christmas we walked around each other like roommates. I even had a night where I walked into the room and slapped him hard across the face. He started to pack a bag.

I felt so sorry to see his pain, and wanted for the first time in a while to comfort him.

Then after I did, I wondered, why didn't he want to comfort me after coming home each time having secretly wounded me?

Tuesday he took the girls for two nights at a hotel with a swimming pool. It has been nice to be alone in the house. I fantasize about having a man here in the house when he returns... Not because i want to, but just so he could have a taste of the pain.

Don't worry, I'm not that stupid. (Although he's a fool if he doesn't think my self-esteem is in the toilet, and the first guy who is nice to me might just get more than he bargained for)...

He prefers to see me as asexual and incapable I guess. He's definitely never been jealous, which in a way hurts.

I got a good laugh at the speculation on his thread about me already having someone on the side.

Nope.

The truth is, I just want my pre-A husband back. That is the only man I love.

This new man is just a replica, with traces of HER all over his body. Tainted.

I don't love that man. How can I? Where do I begin? How can I erase her? Erase my mind?

God help me. Seriously.

Okay, firstly Seriously, your WH is still foggy. You are seeing some of the patches of fog clear but it will still take some time. He wasn't unhappy for YEARS. He only thinks that NOW looking through his A glasses. He needed to justify his A and telling himself that he was unhappy for X number of years was the only way he could continue. He was lying to himself. Don't read into it.

Definitely DON'T have a RA. RA's do NOTHING but complicate and already complicated and hurtful sitch. Also, your children deserve to have ONE sane parent. Don't go wayward on us.

Your WH could not see the pain he was causing you because he didn't want to. All he cared about was getting his needs met. That was ALL.

You don't want your Pre-A H back. You want a BETTER H and a BETTER marriage.

This isn't a sprint. Recovery is a marathon and it isn't easy(or so I've heard).

Have you two been following the 20+ UA hours/week? Meeting the important 4 ENs?

Have you read any of the threads on the Recovery board to see if there is anything there that can help you out?

Good advice from Scotty, give all your emotional reactions a good look at this time. Yes a matathon is the best description, and right now is a really tough leg and uphill.


Good thing this place is here with some water huh?

This will happen. You will vacillate. When you see his pain, and know that he hurts, and that he also feels pain and shame for what he has done to you and your marriage - you may find some pity for him.

And then, you will feel your own pain. You will remember that he CHOSE this. Then you will be angry.

Then you may think about what it is like to have that responsibility; making a choice that destroys everything meaningful in your life. You will pity him again.

Then you will remember that he HAD to know this was the cost, and you will be angry.

Get the pattern here?


Anger. Vengeance. Justice!...?

It's not justice, S. You would do it solely with the intention to hurt him - just for the satisfaction of revenge. You would allow yourself to be used, and he would STILL NOT KNOW YOUR PAIN. In the back of his mind, he would believe he was just getting what he deserves. In a sick way, it's not revenge, it's not punishment... it's a reward for you to stoop to that level.




That man was an illusion. A man that put finances before family, even when it wasn't in his own best interest. A dishonest man, who didn't open up to you that he was hurting and alone.

You want a better man. You want a better marriage. You DESERVE both, and you MUST HAVE both if you are going to survive.


1) Understand that even if you want to, you cannot just up and forgive him. He has to earn forgiveness through action EVERY DAY from here on out.

2) Forget about the what you thought trust was before. He shouldn't be trusted. He should not be on long business trips away from you for extended periods of time. He should not be spending leisure time with women. No non-blood relationship women should be in any sort of non-professional or prolonged contact with him for any reason.

3) Live for TODAY and TOMORROW. Maybe one day you can recover your memories, maybe one day everything will not be tainted by his betrayal. For now, however, he has kicked filth into the river of your marriage, and it has tainted the waters of the past, present, and future. You won't be able to see a future - because nobody can see past a decision they do not yet understand. IF AND ONLY IF he begins to earn your forgiveness, emotional trust, and love, will you be able to peer ahead, just a little bit.

For now, you will be lucky to see anything with him five minutes from now.

A minimum of TWO YEARS of every day action from him will be required.

If he isn't up to snuff, and you decide you've had enough, not only will you still be justified in dropping it and walking away, you can do so knowing you gave him every opportunity to dedicate his life to your marriage like he should have to begin with.

seriously, this is still very new to you. Expect to be all over the board, emotion-wise.

I left bruises on my H.

One minute I was HB'ing with him, the next minute I'm screaming at him like a total mess.

It's the rollercoaster.

Your DH is in there - there's a lot of fog, still. This is like an all-white 1000 piece puzzle with no edges. It's going to take a lot of effort, but you can put this back together.

seriously.

Hi All,

Thank you for your words. I am sorry I haven't thanked you for taking the time earlier. I read them. I ponder them.

I've felt for a while that I was a bit of a broken record and it was time to start taking some of the advice that I'd been given instead of asking again and again for some magic "something else."

So I'll just update you all on where I/we're at... especially just because I feel alone... and wish there was a way I could just be around some of you BSes for awhile for a hug/cry-fest.

WH has been back since before Christmas. It was a roller coaster of emotions. I didn't want to be home (and wasn't) when he came home, and avoided him once I came home for awhile. I still can't look at his face 90% of the time... sometimes I can bring my eyes up to his mouth-level.

Having said that, we enrolled in online MB and have almost completed that. We sit next to each other and watch, and pause and talk a lot (and I cry alot)... especially when Dr. Harley talks about Infidelity and the emotional need of Sexual Fulfillment (it only shows me how she was meeting almost all his needs and why he was so into it).

I ask WH to be radically honest. Today I got that OW was one of the most beautiful women he'd ever seen. Honesty is brutal. I have seen her picture. I am tormented. I guess that is something I allow/do to myself at this point.

Anyway, intellectually I think the MB program is good... just feels like a mockery because it comes too late. I find it difficult without any natural desire to try. I know I am clearly in emotional withdrawal, and maybe aversive reaction to my husband.

He got in bed with me the other night, and I vomited. I still have nightmares every night. Last night the nightmare was, him sneaking off to talk to her, and that she was pregnant, and I beat him up and bloodied him in front of his family at Christmas.

He thinks I need professional help, which is probably right, but--wait, I wasn't like this before all this s$%#. Thanks for handing all the work over to me. Even when he was away in December, I felt much better in the day/slept better, was a better mother.

So, I guess that's where I'm at: emotionally withdrawn, aversive reactions to my H, nightmares, and I feel no love for my H. Actually I am surprised at how little I feel for him... in the first few days after D-Day there was some sort of emotional something love-esque to work with, but now that is gone. I feel like he could be gone forever, and I'd be a-ok with that.

P.S. I know I am a whiner, and that many of you wish your spouse was behaving like mine... which reminds me of another thing.

Knowing we both know about MB, I know what he "should" be doing (the advice he's getting)... i.e. Plan A, and depositing Love Units and meeting emotional needs. His attempts are on some hands not penetrating, and on others fully half-as$ed and only infuriate me more.

It makes me think... this is the best "behavior" I can ever expect from him (considering he just had an A and is sorry)... and it still blows. Is occasional domestic support (i.e. washing a dish) going to turn into love someday?

Ok, whining, venting, and complaining complete. Have I alienated you all yet?

Nope.

Diagnosis; completely normal for being utterly betrayed.

He will either stand by you in the fire, and show you that he is remorseful and that he is willing to do what it takes to recover, or he will shrink away.

The ball is in his court...

Oh, your pain is so acute and familiar. I am so sorry you are here.

I absolutely believe the MB strategies can work for you, even at this place. If his efforts are still half@ssed, if he is serious, they will get better. My dh was half@ssed as well during our FR. It's still early. I hate to tell you to give it time, but time helps. They can't become "new" husbands overnight.

I had to get help, too, get keep myself from losing my grip on reality. It was worth every minute and every penny. She never counseled me on staying or leaving, but just on managing the pain, getting a good perspective on things and keeping me from stabbing him with whatever was handy.

We have a saying where I work: When you are standing at the bottom of a [censored] avalance? Close your mouth. Meaning: when things are bad, don't do anything to make them worse. Get help if you need it. Try to find some aspect of love in yourself for him. Recovery is a two way street, it's just that your side is riddled with pot holes and the paint has worn off.

I agree with this advice. I also understanding the crap your going through. It will take help from a lot of areas to heal you. Take all you can get for help, it is the worse thing that ever has happened that is why it feels like it is.

Your insight and honesty into your feelings although seeming now to make life worse, will accually work for you as time goes by. Thank you for sharing a most painful time and being so eloquent in doing so. It will pass, build yourself up, and hang in there. Its OK to feel sorry for yourself when its justified, and you will eventually replace that with good memories. Time will heal it all. You can't rush it. Your on the right road, this is part of the process.

Don't worry about whining, come here and vent if you need to.

Your in my prayers.

I just realized... you hit the point in your marathon training where you have run until you puke.

Kind of a tough point to step forward from.


Yet... now you know what to expect. Buckle down, breathe deep, and mentally focus on the finish line. It is nowhere in your vision now, nor will it be for some time, but you know that a part of you wants to be there.

Focus on your goal.